Everyone knows steroids are wrong.

 

 

And everybody is wrong.

 

Also: Lifting weights is not genuine; It's using science to build muscle mass in order to hit home runs. Do you look down on players who weight lift?

 

Running on a treadmill is not genuine; It's using science to build stamina and speed.

 

The vast amount of legal supplements players use are not genuine; do you look down on those who drink creatine?

 

Why single out steroids?

 

Is this serious?

 

Why do you think they're illegal in the United States? Why do you think they're banned by every major sporting league in the world???? There are serious side effects involved.

 

Lifting weights is completely safe and healthy. Treadmills are completely safe and healthy.

Actually, lifting weights isn't completely safe.

 

That's once again besides the point.

None of the polls say that the majority think that.

 

 

Yeah there is, the first one you showed. 36% said Aaron, 34% said Bonds, 33% said Ruth. I'm no math whiz, but 36+34+33= 103, so something's not right.

Actually, lifting weights isn't completely safe.

 

That's once again besides the point.

 

 

You're right. It's not completely safe if you're not doing it properly. But I guess by that definition, nothing is completely safe.

None of the polls say that the majority think that.

 

 

Yeah there is, the first one you showed. 36% said Aaron, 34% said Bonds, 33% said Ruth. I'm no math whiz, but 36+34+33= 103, so something's not right.

Sorry, I kinda muffed that one up. The poll, as I said, was taken before Bonds broke the record (9 homers away). He had 8% at the time of the poll but 34% said that they'd consider him the greatest when he would eventually break the record.

Is this serious?

 

Why do you think they're illegal in the United States? Why do you think they're banned by every major sporting league in the world???? There are serious side effects involved.

 

Lifting weights is completely safe and healthy. Treadmills are completely safe and healthy.

 

 

1) There are no life-threatening side effects involved for an adult male. Most all of the supposed "side effects" have never been proven, and in fact have been disproven. You can find a ton of other stuff on the web but since this one actually deals with baseball: http://steroids-and-baseball.com/medical-effects.shtml

 

So does weed have serious side effects? And tobacco is not a problem at all! Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's bad for you.

 

Think for yourself. Look stuff up, immerse yourself in information, learn. Don't blindly listen and say "that's how it is."

 

2) My argument is against "genuine." Why is using science to improve ability "genuine" for some things, but unnatural for others?

How are steroids distinguishable from protein bars or protein shakes?

Or even other healthy foods that promote muscle growth and repair?

It works way better.

It works way better.

 

 

Precisely why it should be used!

Is this serious?

 

Why do you think they're illegal in the United States? Why do you think they're banned by every major sporting league in the world???? There are serious side effects involved.

 

Lifting weights is completely safe and healthy. Treadmills are completely safe and healthy.

 

 

1) There are no life-threatening side effects involved for an adult male. Most all of the supposed "side effects" have never been proven, and in fact have been disproven. You can find a ton of other stuff on the web but since this one actually deals with baseball: http://steroids-and-...l-effects.shtml

 

So does weed have serious side effects? And tobacco is not a problem at all! Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's bad for you.

 

Think for yourself. Look stuff up, immerse yourself in information, learn. Don't blindly listen and say "that's how it is."

 

2) My argument is against "genuine." Why is using science to improve ability "genuine" for some things, but unnatural for others?

 

1) Anabolic steroids can lead to:

-premature heart attacks

-strokes

-liver tumors

-kidney failure

-serious psychiatric problems

 

Let me play devil's advocate for a second. Even if you are right that there are no life threatening effects involved for an adult male, there is still most certainly life threatening & damaging effects for an adolescent male. Major League Baseball players serve as role models to our youth, like it or not. So either way, steroids have no business being in the sport.

 

2) Seriously? It should go without saying.. the magnitude of strength gained from steroids trumps that of treadmills, weights, creatine, or whatever else. By A LOT. The word I keep using to describe the kind of strength it provides is "freakish". Barry Bonds became super-human. There is absolutely no way he could get that strong with weights, treadmills, or creatine. Not a chance.

1) Anabolic steroids can lead to:

-premature heart attacks

-strokes

-liver tumors

-kidney failure

-serious psychiatric problems

 

Let me play devil's advocate for a second. Even if you are right that there are no life threatening effects involved for an adult male, there is still most certainly life threatening & damaging effects for an adolescent male. Major League Baseball players serve as role models to our youth, like it or not. So either way, steroids have no business being in the sport.

 

2) Seriously? It should go without saying.. the magnitude of strength gained from steroids trumps that of treadmills, weights, creatine, or whatever else. By A LOT. The word I keep using to describe the kind of strength it provides is "freakish". Barry Bonds became super-human. There is absolutely no way he could get that strong with weights, treadmills, or creatine. Not a chance.

 

 

1) And in every study, none of those have been proven. Again, propaganda.

 

And if a 16 year old kid (Which is the actual age demograph we would be talking about) does something because a 25 year old man does it, he deserves the repercussions. Darwinism in action.

 

A real argument would be that they would use it to get noticed by scouts. The counter for that would be a) supplying kids with REAL information instead of using scare tactics and b) those same kids would be doing it regardless.

 

2) What does it matter what magnitude it gives? You're drawing an imaginary line and saying "All past this is not genuine, but anything before it is" even though all of it is gaining strength through science aka unnaturally. That's being incredibly pretentious.

Can I just mention that steroids aren't completely banned in baseball? It's kinda different but Josh Willingham wouldn't have a career without steroids.

 

I'm mostly indifferent to the steroid debate (falling more toward approval), but I disagree with the logic of this statement.

 

Cortisone is a corticosteroid, which means that it has no anabolic properties. As far as I know, the historical concern has always been with anabolics and never steroids in general (broadly). The fact that people refer to anabolics generically as "steroids" is nothing more than a colloquialism.

 

There's a couple of other things I take issue with in this thread but I don't have time right now to get to all of them.

Just because a 16-year old kid lacks the judgment to refrain from steroid use doesn't mean it's okay to just let it happen. There are lots of pressures involved. They see MLB players on TV and they think they should be the same as them physically. They want to get better, they want the scouts to notice them, they want bigger signing bonuses. You can't just say "oh, they're 16, they should know enough to not be influenced like that." There was an ESPN report a few years ago about a high school baseball player in Texas who ultimately commited suicide as a result of the serious psychological effects of steroid use. It's not propaganda, it's just trying to keep people safe.

 

But all of that has nothing to do with my original argument, which is that Barry Bonds is not the true home run king. My stance is that the use of steroids had a profound impact on Bonds' home run totals, whereas Hank Aaron's very brief experimental use of amphetamines had a very minimal impact on his home run hitting ability, if any.

We should ban the curveball and splitter in MLB because if 16 year olds try to throw it they are at a significantly higher risk for forearm injuries.

 

Just because a 16-year old kid lacks the judgment to refrain from split fingered fastball and curveball use doesn't mean it's okay to just let it happen. There are lots of pressures involved. They see MLB players on TV and they think they should throw the same pitches as them. They want to get better, they want the scouts to notice them, they want bigger signing bonuses.

16 year olds are fine throwing curveballs. It's 8-12 year olds who people say are putting themselves at serious risk by throwing them. I'm not sure what that has to do with performance enhancing drugs, though :blink:

There was an ESPN report a few years ago about a high school baseball player in Texas who ultimately commited suicide as a result of the serious psychological effects of steroid use. It's not propaganda, it's just trying to keep people safe.

 

That is the definition of propaganda lol

 

Either they're going to do it anyway or their not, regardless of ML players doing it. All the reasons you listed, are the exact reasons they do them now. A better way to get them to not do it would be ACTUAL INFORMATION instead of scare tactics like the above suicidal thing.

 

But all of that has nothing to do with my original argument, which is that Barry Bonds is not the true home run king. My stance is that the use of steroids had a profound impact on Bonds' home run totals, whereas Hank Aaron's very brief experimental use of amphetamines had a very minimal impact on his home run hitting ability, if any.

 

And again -> 2) What does it matter what magnitude it gives? You're drawing an imaginary line and saying "All past this is not genuine, but anything before it is" even though all of it is gaining strength through science aka unnaturally. That's being incredibly pretentious.

That is the definition of propaganda lol

 

Either they're going to do it anyway or their not, regardless of ML players doing it. All the reasons you listed, are the exact reasons they do them now. A better way to get them to not do it would be ACTUAL INFORMATION instead of scare tactics like the above suicidal thing.

 

 

So you're saying the best way to get kids not to use steroids is by telling them they're not bad for you?

And again -> 2) What does it matter what magnitude it gives? You're drawing an imaginary line and saying "All past this is not genuine, but anything before it is" even though all of it is gaining strength through science aka unnaturally. That's being incredibly pretentious.

 

 

One is an extreme, one is not. Simple as that. It's like comparing shoplifting to murder.

And again -> 2) What does it matter what magnitude it gives? You're drawing an imaginary line and saying "All past this is not genuine, but anything before it is" even though all of it is gaining strength through science aka unnaturally. That's being incredibly pretentious.

 

 

One is an extreme, one is not. Simple as that. It's like comparing shoplifting to murder.

It's like comparing legally making $1M to legally making $10M.

 

Noone make $10M dollars, it's just wrong.

And again -> 2) What does it matter what magnitude it gives? You're drawing an imaginary line and saying "All past this is not genuine, but anything before it is" even though all of it is gaining strength through science aka unnaturally. That's being incredibly pretentious.

 

 

One is an extreme, one is not. Simple as that. It's like comparing shoplifting to murder.

It's like comparing legally making $1M to legally making $10M.

 

Noone make $10M dollars, it's just wrong.

 

You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. It has nothing to do with legality. I was just comparing something extreme to something not extreme. Here's another example. The president of the United States and the president of a high school graduating class.

And there's nothing wrong with being POTUS.

 

Though working out to be as strong as Dunn or Pujols, for instance, is way closer to my analogy than yours.

And there's nothing wrong with being POTUS.

 

Though working out to be as strong as Dunn or Pujols, for instance, is way closer to my analogy than yours.

 

 

We're not talking about that kind of strength. We're talking about extreme, super-human, freakish strength. We're talking 73 home runs at the age 36 season strength.

And there's nothing wrong with being POTUS.

 

Though working out to be as strong as Dunn or Pujols, for instance, is way closer to my analogy than yours.

 

 

We're not talking about that kind of strength. We're talking about extreme, super-human, freakish strength. We're talking 73 home runs at the age 36 season strength.

I know, in my comparison their strength is a $1M, in yours it's class president.

And there's nothing wrong with being POTUS.

 

Though working out to be as strong as Dunn or Pujols, for instance, is way closer to my analogy than yours.

 

 

We're not talking about that kind of strength. We're talking about extreme, super-human, freakish strength. We're talking 73 home runs at the age 36 season strength.

I know, in my comparison their strength is a $1M, in yours it's class president.

 

I'm simply comparing something extreme to something not extreme.

But it is extreme. These are extremes. A guy hitting 46 or 47 HR at age 36 is an extreme. It's just not as extreme.