Josh Gibson, plaque in HOF states almost 800 HR's or Sadaharu Oh with 868 are the only true home run kings I'll recognize!

I've already had my argument with Rab regarding Aaron and Bonds, so I rethunk!?! my position and will only honor those two and maybe Babe Ruth, that is if alcohol, gluttony and sex aren't considered PED's :thumbup

In all honesty, who gives a crap who the "true home run king" is? It's up to you to decide what definition you choose for that.

 

Personally, I think of Barry Bonds as the man who hit the most home runs while playing in an era where home runs were relatively easy to come by. I don't think Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time, he just hit the most home runs. Given context and everything, Babe Ruth is probably the greatest home run hitter of all time, but he never played an official game against a single black or dark skinned latino player, so his accomplishments are tainted just as much as Bonds' in my opinion. So I think you've gotta take Aaron as the greatest home run hitter of all time, even if Ruth and Bonds are arguably better players overall.

 

I might take Ted Williams as my choice of greatest hitter of all time.

It doesn't help Bonds' case that he's pretty much an A-Hole in real life. If he was a little more of a friendly person to the media and in life, maybe people would give him a little more leniency.

Which is super retarded and should have nothing to do with anything if it wasn't for media types being stupid.

In all honesty, who gives a crap who the "true home run king" is? It's up to you to decide what definition you choose for that.

 

Personally, I think of Barry Bonds as the man who hit the most home runs while playing in an era where home runs were relatively easy to come by. I don't think Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time, he just hit the most home runs. Given context and everything, Babe Ruth is probably the greatest home run hitter of all time, but he never played an official game against a single black or dark skinned latino player, so his accomplishments are tainted just as much as Bonds' in my opinion. So I think you've gotta take Aaron as the greatest home run hitter of all time, even if Ruth and Bonds are arguably better players overall.

 

I might take Ted Williams as my choice of greatest hitter of all time.

 

 

I agree with everything you said here, but I don't think it's fair to say Ruth's legacy is tainted just as much as Bonds'. Ruth had no control over the lack of colored players in the game. Bonds did have control of his steroid use.

Which is super retarded and should have nothing to do with anything if it wasn't for media types being stupid.

 

 

Public relations with the media have an effect on legacy whether you like it or not. Personally, I think character matters when evaluating who is the true Home Run king. I think Bonds was unethical in the way he gained the record.

In all honesty, who gives a crap who the "true home run king" is? It's up to you to decide what definition you choose for that.

 

Personally, I think of Barry Bonds as the man who hit the most home runs while playing in an era where home runs were relatively easy to come by. I don't think Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time, he just hit the most home runs. Given context and everything, Babe Ruth is probably the greatest home run hitter of all time, but he never played an official game against a single black or dark skinned latino player, so his accomplishments are tainted just as much as Bonds' in my opinion. So I think you've gotta take Aaron as the greatest home run hitter of all time, even if Ruth and Bonds are arguably better players overall.

 

I might take Ted Williams as my choice of greatest hitter of all time.

 

 

I agree with everything you said here, but I don't think it's fair to say Ruth's legacy is tainted just as much as Bonds'. Ruth had no control over the lack of colored players in the game. Bonds did have control of his steroid use.

 

Eh, I bet he didn't mind not having to face the best players not of his race.

In all honesty, who gives a crap who the "true home run king" is? It's up to you to decide what definition you choose for that.

 

Personally, I think of Barry Bonds as the man who hit the most home runs while playing in an era where home runs were relatively easy to come by. I don't think Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time, he just hit the most home runs. Given context and everything, Babe Ruth is probably the greatest home run hitter of all time, but he never played an official game against a single black or dark skinned latino player, so his accomplishments are tainted just as much as Bonds' in my opinion. So I think you've gotta take Aaron as the greatest home run hitter of all time, even if Ruth and Bonds are arguably better players overall.

 

I might take Ted Williams as my choice of greatest hitter of all time.

 

 

I agree with everything you said here, but I don't think it's fair to say Ruth's legacy is tainted just as much as Bonds'. Ruth had no control over the lack of colored players in the game. Bonds did have control of his steroid use.

 

Eh, I bet he didn't mind not having to face the best players not of his race.

Well, Babe was known to play in exhibitions against the Cuban Stars and many negro league teams, so you're wrong there.

I don't know if Ty Cobb was right about this but he used to hate Ruth because according to him Ruth was part black.

I don't know if Ty Cobb was right about this but he used to hate Ruth because according to him Ruth was part black.

 

I've heard that too but it's been highly disputed. Supposedly on his father's side if I remember correctly.

With the exception of the absurd 73 HR season in 2001, the end of his career was not really all that much more than the earlier years.

 

He was a top 3 OPS+ player from 1990 onward, and had his best streaks from 1990-1993 and 2000-2004

He was top 4 in HRs from 1990 onward. The game changed where 34 was good for 2nd place in 1991 and 45 was 4th place in 2004.

 

A lot of his stats were warped by the fear pitchers showed him from 2000-2004. More of his ABs were during higher leverage situation where one could not walk him than if he were just pitched to. That inflates OBP and SLG.

 

Steroids may very well have helped him. But if they were ubiquitous, and it is pretty obvious that they were, then his position against the norm is what has to be considered. He had the kind of best-of-an-era deviation that makes him perhaps the best player to ever set foot on the diamond. There are perhaps a dozen players that have such a substantial gap between them and the rest of their era.

 

If I were to make the ultimate team, Barry Bonds circa 1993 would certainly be on it.

All I'll say about this and then I'll say nothing more [unless I feel needed lol]

 

Steroids do not help your hand-eye coordination or ability to hit the ball squarely. Hit it further? Sure. Make solid contact? No.

You still need a good amount of skill to hit well, steroids or not.

There's no rule that says you must use a shinguard. CHEATERS!

 

 

Did you just compare shinguards to steroid use? Wow.

 

Why do you think MLB subsequently banned steroids?

 

 

Because They are dangerous,,,Steroids can turn you into a Doofus like Canseco or a real Ass like Barry Bonds

There's no rule that says you must use a shinguard. CHEATERS!

 

 

Did you just compare shinguards to steroid use? Wow.

 

Why do you think MLB subsequently banned steroids?

 

 

Because They are dangerous,,,Steroids can turn you into a Doofus like Canseco or a real Ass like Barry Bonds

I truly believe Canseco was already a doofus and I'm certain that Bonds was an a$$hole before using, but MLB just caved into pressure from Congress before actually doing anything about steroids even though they were outlawed.

First let me preface this by saying I DESPISE Bonds. I by no means am one who will defend or go to bat for him.

 

That being said, if you look at his career, outside of 1993, when he fully began blooming as a power hitter, there was ONE season where his numbers were much higher than average.... 2001.

 

Assuming he became involved with steroids in 2000 when his affiliation with Greg Anderson began, "steroids" accounted for 317 of his home runs.. Meaning, he hit 445 OFF the juice.

 

On top of things, I'm fully believing steroids only aide you so much. Yes, it turns a pull ball hitter in to a 50 homer threat. However, Bonds ALWAYS was that threat, and his power developed making him one of the best in the game.

 

Steroids do NOTHING to help in bat speed, hand eye coordination or the other facets it takes to hit a baseball. His .316 career average was no way, shape or form as a result of steroids.

 

I dislike Bonds, GREATLY. However he's the Home Run King until Pujols, Rodriguez or someone else beats that mark. The asterik crap is idiotic. The man deserves his due.

It doesn't help Bonds' case that he's pretty much an A-Hole in real life. If he was a little more of a friendly person to the media and in life, maybe people would give him a little more leniency.

 

 

 

No question, Bonds is an a-hole..

 

However, so was Babe Ruth..... Many still consider him to be the Greatest of All Time.

 

Joe DiMaggio was sullen and not regarded as the nicest guy himself..

 

Ted Williams was at times considered "impossible to please"..

 

You didn't even want to DREAM of getting on Bob Gibson's bad side.

 

Oh and don't even get me started on Ty Cobb.

 

That said, their accomplishments were not and SHOULD not be negated due to personality.

With the exception of the absurd 73 HR season in 2001, the end of his career was not really all that much more than the earlier years.

 

He was a top 3 OPS+ player from 1990 onward, and had his best streaks from 1990-1993 and 2000-2004

He was top 4 in HRs from 1990 onward. The game changed where 34 was good for 2nd place in 1991 and 45 was 4th place in 2004.

 

A lot of his stats were warped by the fear pitchers showed him from 2000-2004. More of his ABs were during higher leverage situation where one could not walk him than if he were just pitched to. That inflates OBP and SLG.

 

Steroids may very well have helped him. But if they were ubiquitous, and it is pretty obvious that they were, then his position against the norm is what has to be considered. He had the kind of best-of-an-era deviation that makes him perhaps the best player to ever set foot on the diamond. There are perhaps a dozen players that have such a substantial gap between them and the rest of their era.

 

If I were to make the ultimate team, Barry Bonds circa 1993 would certainly be on it.

 

 

Nobody is saying otherwise. He was an outstanding player, one of the best. But from ages 35 to 39, when people are supposed to start breaking down physically, and numbers start to decline, his only got better.

All I'll say about this and then I'll say nothing more [unless I feel needed lol]

 

Steroids do not help your hand-eye coordination or ability to hit the ball squarely. Hit it further? Sure. Make solid contact? No.

You still need a good amount of skill to hit well, steroids or not.

 

 

Nobody is saying otherwise.

The true HR king is either Sadaharu Oh (868) or Josh Gibson(800 according to Guinness Book of World Records but unverified). Sadaharu played on fields with 3 feet high outfield walls and Gibson's career total is unverified. So they have caveats too.

Nobody is saying otherwise. He was an outstanding player, one of the best. But from ages 35 to 39, when people are supposed to start breaking down physically, and numbers start to decline, his only got better.

 

 

Except that is not true (barring the aberration of 2001), because everyone with power hit more HRs. He started his career when 35 HRs could win the crown, and ended it when 50 could see you in 2nd place.