:angel Once upon a time, a little baby was born in Bethlehem to a Jewish couple. He grew up to be a prophet and at 33 he had thousands of followers but also a lot of enemies. The Jewish leaders despised him because he questioned them and challenged some of the Jewish laws. Jesus teachings started a movement that caused a division between the conservative Jewish and those who followed him. It was the birth of Christianity.

 

As you can see, Christianity is a derivate of Judaism. However, our main difference is that we Christians believe that Jesus is the messiah, while the Jewish believe he was just a prophet and are still waiting for the messiah.

 

The new movie from Mel Gibson coming out next year, ?The Passion?, has stirred some more the rivalry between these two faiths. Jewish leaders claim the movie furthers the accusation that Jews are responsible for the death of Christ and will fuel anti-Semitism. Christian church leaders think the movie is historically and theologically accurate.

 

The Jewish scholars expressed concerns that scenes depicting Jesus' crucifixion at the hands of Jews and others will fuel anti-Semitism. However, this fear is unfounded, since there have been thousands of movies before this one that portray the last hours of Jesus in the same way. Perhaps due to the fact that it is being made by a well recognized actor/director that it has produced so many waves.

 

I would like to exhort you to put aside your vanity and try to reconcile our differences once and for all. We all know how the story starts and end. Therefore, there is no point in trying to convince each other of the ?truth?. Christians are incorrect when they ?accuse? blatantly the Jewish for ?killing? Jesus. The Jewish are incorrect when denying that they rejected him and conspired to have him get apprehended. If anyone physically ?killed? Jesus, it would be the Romans. However, Jesus did not get ?killed?, he agreed with God to give his life for us. He offered himself in sacrifice to purge our sins. If you call yourself a Christian you know it is against his teachings to hate others; especially when he preached forgiveness and love. Why go on blaming others, when the very essence of our Christian faith is based upon his death and resurrection? Had he not died on that cross, we would not be discussing this topic today. Whether the Jewish leaders of the time conspired against him or not, should not be an issue today. It is absurd to blame their descendents for something done thousands of years ago. The same way that it is absurd to blame today?s Christians for the horrors of the crusades or the Catholics for the terrors of the Inquisition.

 

Here is an excerpt of an interview that an Italian Journalist did with a Catholic Cardinal that saw the unfinished cut of the movie:

?Anti-Semitism, like all forms of racism, distorts the truth in order to put a whole race of people in a bad light. This film does nothing of the sort. It draws out from the historical objectivity of the Gospel narratives sentiments of forgiveness, mercy, and reconciliation. It captures the subtleties and the horror of sin, as well as the gentle power of love and forgiveness, without making or insinuating blanket condemnations against one group. This film expressed the exact opposite, that learning from the example of Christ; there should never be any more violence against any other human being?

 

I highlighted that last sentence because that is the whole message. I have seen many movies of the passion of Christ and none of them have incited me to hate the Jewish people. Every time I see the crucifixion scene it reminds me of how selfish and mundane I am. It always inspires me to be a better person and to be more forgiving.

 

Ultimately, we all came from the ?same pack?. Our religions may differ in many things, but they are based on the same principles. This is why I do not even bother posting in the ?God Thread?. It is pointless to try and convince others they are wrong, when we all just may be right.

 

Merry Christmas! And Happy Hanukah!

not gettin involved

Um, if it shows Jews crucifying Jesus, its a lie.

 

And if it shows Jesus and his posse not doing his own conspiring against the romans and possibly religious competitors, then the movie is not realistic.

Sorianofan,

 

Stay away from this topic please. If you have the need to keep fighting the religion issue... There is the "God Thread".

 

This topic is not a right or wrong debate. It was a conciliatory thread for Jewish and Christians. So STOP IT! We already know you do not believe in our God and that you question everything we believe.

 

We are not discussing that here! Period!

 

For those who are too lazy to read the whole post. It is not anti-semitic or a boxing match between Catholics and Jewish... Read the whole post before adding a reply and making yourself look like and idiot!

I don't really want to touch this one, except for the fact that the Jews were responsible for killing Christ, choosing the freedom of a murderer over the freedom of the Son of God, so they should just accept it and move on. They didn't, of course, literally kill him because it was the Romans who "officially" put him on trial. BUT that being said, they chose to put him on trial and when Pontius Pilot left the fate of his life in their hands they chose to have him executed. Saying the Romans are to take most of the blame is like saying that the executioner orders the people he executes to be put to death.

 

The Germans haven't denied they killed all the Jews, the Americans haven't denied they enslaved all the blacks, so why should the Jews deny something that is common knowledge?

Lina, your post is very intelligent.

 

I have never seen anyone I know at church/youth group blame the Jews for "killing" Christ. At youth group, we are reminded that He died for US and we are reminded of how our selfish ways and ignorance towards Him hurts Him and like they say, "dig the nails in deeper". They play a beautiful song for us. I am going to look for the lyrics and post them up.

Via Dolorosa

 

Down the Via Dolorosa in Jerusalem that day

The soldiers tried to clear the narrow street

But the crowd pressed in to see

A Man condemned to die on Calvary

 

He was bleeding from a beating, there were stripes upon His back

And He wore a crown of thorns upon His head

And He bore with every step

The scorn of those who cried out for His death

 

Down the Via Dolorosa called the way of suffering

Like a lamb came the Messiah, Christ the King,

But He chose to walk that road out of

His love for you and me.

Down the Via Dolorosa, all the way to Calvary.

 

Por la Via Dolorosa, triste dia en Jerusalem

Los saldados le abrian paso a Jesus

Mas la gente se acercaba

Para ver al que llevaba aquella cruz

 

Por la Via Dolorosa, que es la via del dolor

Como oveja vino Cristo, Rey, Senor

Y fue El quien quiso ir por su amor por ti y por mi

Por la Via Dolorosa al Calvario y a morir

 

The blood that would cleanse the souls of all men

Made its way through the heart of Jerusalem.

 

Down the Via Dolorosa called the way of suffering

Like a lamb came the Messiah, Christ the King

But He chose to walk that road out of His love for you and me

Down the Via Dolorosa, all the way to Calvary.

 

By Billy Sprague and Niles Borop

©1983 Meadowgreen Music and Word Music/ASCAP

That is beautiful!

 

However, it is unfortunate that some people choose to hate and blame instead of taking his gift and love and forgive.

Jewish people.... when will they ever learn

 

note: im a Jew so yea

I don't really want to touch this one, except for the fact that the Jews were responsible for killing Christ, choosing the freedom of a murderer over the freedom of the Son of God, so they should just accept it and move on. They didn't, of course, literally kill him because it was the Romans who "officially" put him on trial. BUT that being said, they chose to put him on trial and when Pontius Pilot left the fate of his life in their hands they chose to have him executed. Saying the Romans are to take most of the blame is like saying that the executioner orders the people he executes to be put to death.

 

The Germans haven't denied they killed all the Jews, the Americans haven't denied they enslaved all the blacks, so why should the Jews deny something that is common knowledge?

Your first statement in your post reads "I don't really want to touch this one", but then you go on and say "Jews were responsible for killing Christ". You have touched it in the worst way you could possibly do.

 

Once again, please read the entire post before adding such inflamatory statements in here. When you say they killed him you are denying he offered himself in sacrifice in the first place; not to mention that you are practically rejecting the concept of resurrection.

 

I am pretty sure, in fact I am positive, that the Christian leaders today would do the same thing the Jewish leaders did thousands of years ago. Jesus was a threat to them, as much as someone coming today claiming to be son of god would be to today's Christian leaders, specially the Catholic church.

 

If Jesus was to come in our time, he would probably challenge every rule our religions have imposed... Do you think our religious leaders would stand to such a thing? They would act in the same way the Jewish leaders did back then. Suspicious and scared of his influence on the masses. They would be like, "is this guy for real?".

 

Where is the concept of love and forgiveness that he taught to us in your words?

Juanky never said anything about not forgiving the Jews, or hating them. He said that it is fact that the Jews had Jesus killed. Sacrifice or no, the Jews didn't believe who Jesus was, therefore they wanted him killed. And maybe today's Christian leaders would kill Jesus. Maybe not. Juanky's point is that the Jews DID kill Jesus. Can it be forgiven? Yes. Jesus did.

so much for stayin out

so much for stayin out

Resistance is futile!

Juanky never said anything about not forgiving the Jews, or hating them. He said that it is fact that the Jews had Jesus killed. Sacrifice or no, the Jews didn't believe who Jesus was, therefore they wanted him killed. And maybe today's Christian leaders would kill Jesus. Maybe not. Juanky's point is that the Jews DID kill Jesus. Can it be forgiven? Yes. Jesus did.

Took the words straight out of my mouth.

 

I was pointing to the fact that in the depiction in Mel Gibson's movie, you cannot deny history just because it was forgiven. Forgiving someone doesn't mean what they did never happened.

 

Though I hate the man, the phrase was right on:

 

"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names." -John F. Kennedy

 

You can't fail to acknowledge history, or you are doomed to repeat it.

Since none of my Jewish friends have posted to express their views on the issue, I have made some research about Judaism and Jesus Christ. The following is an excerpt:

 

Jews vary about what they think of Jesus as a man. Some respect him as an ethical teacher who accepted Jewish law, as someone who didn't even see himself as the messiah, who didn't want to start a new religion at all. Rather, Jesus is seen by these Jews as someone who challenged the religious authorities of his day for their practices. In this view, he meant to improve Judaism according to his own understanding not to break with it. Whatever the Jewish response is, one point is crucial. No one who is Jewish, no born Jew and no one who converts to Judaism, can believe in Jesus as the literal son of God or as the messiah. For the Jewish people, there is no God but God

That little passage brings up a good point in that Jesus came to this Earth to save us. He did not come to start a new religion. The reason a new religion had to be started was that the Jews that were alive and around him at the time didn't like change, and ended up condeming him to death for essentially trying to fix the religion.

I believe Jesus came, and did not intend for a new religion to be created. It is what happened, but he wanted the Jewish faith to believe that their Messiah had come (which, in the Jewish faith, they are still waiting for the Messiah, no?).

Let me say this though, just on the side. If (and you always have to add the word in front of religious statements) it turns out the Jesus really is the Son of God and the Messiah, then the Jews will have waited forever and when He did come it turned out they didn't think it was him. I guess that all stems from the Jews of the time expecting the Messiah to be our equivalent of Rambo, but instead of killing people Guns Blazing he would be sent to be the bold leader and finish the Romans and the other Gentiles off once and for all. They didn't get that in Jesus, so they continue to wait. Maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, I guess we shall find out when we each respectively meet our maker.

I believe Jesus came, and did not intend for a new religion to be created. It is what happened, but he wanted the Jewish faith to believe that their Messiah had come (which, in the Jewish faith, they are still waiting for the Messiah, no?).

You're correct. Jews are still waiting for the Messiah. I also believe that Jesus did not come to start a "new religion". He was sent by God to save us, not tear us apart.

Sorianofan,

 

Stay away from this topic please. If you have the need to keep fighting the religion issue... There is the "God Thread".

 

This topic is not a right or wrong debate. It was a conciliatory thread for Jewish and Christians. So STOP IT! We already know you do not believe in our God and that you question everything we believe.

 

We are not discussing that here! Period!

 

For those who are too lazy to read the whole post. It is not anti-semitic or a boxing match between Catholics and Jewish... Read the whole post before adding a reply and making yourself look like and idiot!

WTF? Why are you angry at me? Here's a quote right from your post:

Jewish leaders claim the movie furthers the accusation that Jews are responsible for the death of Christ and will fuel anti-Semitism. Christian church leaders think the movie is historically and theologically accurate.

 

The Jewish scholars expressed concerns that scenes depicting Jesus' crucifixion at the hands of Jews and others will fuel anti-Semitism.

 

So, what is it then? Does the movie show Jews being directly responsible or not? By the way the sentence is worded, it seems that it is so.

 

That's why I said: if it shows Jews crucifying Jesus, its a lie

 

Do you know what "if" means? If so, then don't be so damn pissy.

The Jews killed Jesus, but they did not crucify him.

Ok, Sorianofan, I apologize for jumping on my guns so fast again. I just did not want another "God Thread" started here. The killing of Jesus is worth discussing here. I am still puzzled by the fact that the Jewish deny having anything to do with Jesus' death. Please enlight us. Why do the Jewish believe they were not "implicated" in the arrest and conviction of Jesus?

 

We as Christians believe that, in fact, Jewish leaders of the time conspired to have Jesus arrested and later convicted. We get this from the Gospels. But I would like to know the other side of the facts...

 

As for the movie; it really is no different from what the Gospels tell us about Jesus' life and death.

To say that films should not be made depicting an important Jewish role in the death of Jesus is to say that films should not be made based on the Bible. The idea that influential Jews wanted Jesus killed is not a distortion of Christianity; it is, for better or worse, an accurate depiction of the New Testament.

Link

 

Now, let's have an adult discussion here. I do not want anyone bashing on anyone here. Please be objective and remember that it is not to convince the other that they are wrong.

 

I just want to once and for all find out why we keep on fighting over the same issue, when Jesus was Jewish and knowingly or not he fathered our Christian religions.

I come from a fairly neutral point of view in my opinion, my mom being jewish thus according to the religion I'm 100% jewish, being baptized lutheran making me a christian, and being an agnostic, just not believing in either of the two.

 

Ok, Sorianofan, I apologize for jumping on my guns so fast again. I just did not want another "God Thread" started here. The killing of Jesus is worth discussing here. I am still puzzled by the fact that the Jewish deny having anything to do with Jesus' death. Please enlight us. Why do the Jewish believe they were not "implicated" in the arrest and conviction of Jesus?

There's a stigma that comes with it. My mother when she was young was made fun of because she was a "killer of jesus" by italian girls! Now, I would believe the romans saw Jesus as a political threat and had just as much if not more of a hand in it. So the jews like to say they have NOTHING to do with it, because it brings with it this thought that the jews are out to get the christians and that they are a bunch of bastards for killing the son of god. If jesus truly was the son of god, one would rather place blame elsewhere.

 

We as Christians believe that, in fact, Jewish leaders of the time conspired to have Jesus arrested and later convicted. We get this from the Gospels. But I would like to know the other side of the facts...

Remember, the gospels had their own agenda that was opposed by the same jews that could have been political enemies.

 

check these out:

http://essenes.crosswinds.net/m31.htm#gosp

http://www.rsnt.org/content/jews-did-not-kill-jesus.html

 

Good quote from http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/09-An...section-10.html : Finally, politically, we know that some Jewish leaders

? (who were appointed by Roman Government) may have seen Jesus as a

? political threat. However, the threat was more to the Romans, and the

? Jewish leaders may have been pressured to silence him. The final

? decision lay with the Romans, who alone used crucifixion as a means of

? killing criminals and who alone had authority to impose the death

? penalty.

 

The gospels cannot be the best source, them being men motivated by their own interests.

 

Jesus opposed Rome and he was contrary to the religion that was prevalant (sp?) where he lived. That's a good way to make powerful enemies. To say that it was "the jews that killed jesus" is absurd, because it does not take into account the politics at the time, the joint responsibility if not more responsibility on the killers themselves (the romans), and the fact that some powerful jews do not represent all the jews. People like saying "the jews" did it, but that's like saying "the arabs" or "the italians" did it. You cannot make such a generalization, its simply not accurate. Yeah, some powerul people were responsible from many different interests, but it is my no means entirely religiously motivated or implicating an entire group of people like many christians believe.

 

The point? To say "the jews" killed jesus is inaccurate, because it wasn't some sort of conspiracy concocted by an entire people. Were some involved? Yeah, probably the politically powerful ones who were roman appointees.

 

P.S. I'm sorry I used such a tone, it wasn't right.

The point? To say "the jews" killed jesus is inaccurate, because it wasn't some sort of conspiracy concocted by an entire people. Were some involved? Yeah, probably the politically powerful ones who were roman appointees.

Not all the Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust, the Holocaust is still blamed on the Nazis.

 

Not all Spanish were responsible for Cuban concentration camps during the War of Cuban Independence (Spanish-American War), but people that know about it still say the Spanish did it.

 

Not every American owned a slave. Heck, half the country didn't. But Americans are still held responsible for having slaves.

 

Catch my drift?

Not all the Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust, the Holocaust is still blamed on the Nazis.

 

Not all Spanish were responsible for Cuban concentration camps during the War of Cuban Independence (Spanish-American War), but people that know about it still say the Spanish did it.

 

Not every American owned a slave. Heck, half the country didn't. But Americans are still held responsible for having slaves.

 

Catch my drift?

Your analogies do not hold.

 

For example, they say "spain killed cubans", but people know it was the spanish government that did, not the spanish race.

 

Not everyone in the south owned a slave, yet most didn't or couldn't a void the draft and fought to support a government that would continue it.

 

The same can be said about the Germans.

 

The difference is that the great amount of jews had no indirect, direct, or any involvement with jesus. they were just commoners. to hold them responsible for the doings of the political elite is illogical.