QuickSilver

All the networks have broken into coverage CBS, NBC, and ABC all national with this. This has blown out of the water as a media spectacle. 807927[/snapback] As compared to what? The OJ trial? :mischief

I say guilty on molestation and the rest is gravy for the prosecution and probably not guilty.

5 years, $40 million for JIMMY ROLLINS?? The Phillies are insane. 807902[/snapback] why is that insane? 807918[/snapback] I agree. Why is it insane? Is it a bit much? Yes. But Rollins has had the best SS fielding percentage since 2001 according to ESPN. So he is a top defensive guy and he can swing a decent bat. And he is still young enough to first be entering his prime. So a bit much? Yes. Insane? No just a little big.

The indians are now 10 games back and falling. 807908[/snapback] 5 games out of the wildcard and they are over .500 after a bad start.

Should we yes. Will we? Well he is having a good offensive season for himself and he is still relatively young. He knows he is just shy of being a gold glove guy if not already one and others teams know it. He led the NL in HRs last year for a SS. The question is will he begin talking about his contract in the midst of one of his better offensive seasons instead of seeing how much he can cash in at the end. At the end of this year we are going to have to re-sign AJ or replace two starters (Cause Al is gone after this year.) D-Train and Carlos will cost us more next year. We will have a hole in the OF in Encarnacion unless we resign him for more. Conine, Harris and Damion are all towards the end of their careers and whenever they decide to call it quits we will have 3 openings to fill on the bench/backup. I think Seabass will hold off talks until the end of the year to see how much he can push his price up and you can't fault him for that. 4-5 mill a year for 4 years would be suitable though now after this signing by Rollins we might be looking at 5-6 maybe even 7 mill a year. The question is will we put that money in a guy who has not shown he can handle the bat all that great. Its not hard for me to think there are teams who could offer Seabass a 4/28 deal and I don't forsee a hometeam discount usually there isn't one.

I don't think downtown Miami happened or will happen because I bet the land cost a lot more $$$$$$.

Doesn't Polanco help them now? And as some people said concerning the draft: there are no such things as pitching prospects. They might have opted for the help now because truth be told they are only 5 or so games out of the wild-card race perhaps they think they can compete with the offensive help now.

Reading some of these responses I think people are underestimating the Nationals. This was an Expos team that competed 2 years ago when they were playing in two homes. They are a relatively young team on average. They have a balanced hitting lineup having hitters from both sides of the plate. A manager who knows the game. And now they know what it tastes like to win not to mention a lot of fans behind them. They have pitching in Estaban and Livan and Aramas is not trash. If Drese plays the NL like he did in past interleague years he will be a very serviceable 5th man. Also the Nationals have only been 1 game under .500 at the worst this year. They have basically been a winning team all the way so far this year something the Expos didn't do last year. I would not be shocked if they just keep winning. I think the team the NL East as a whole needs to worry about the most is the Phillies. Its hard to find a hole on that team now that they have Urbina. Their starting pitching is their weakest piece but if their offense can score in that sandbox like it should then their pitching won't be left out to dry. The other three teams have holes of some sort or another. Mets have relief pitching issues and aside from Pedro their starting pitchers are not top notch and their offense isn't anything great but it gets the job done. The Braves have no O and are OLD. Injuries aren't helping either. They do have the intangebiles on their side though. You can never rule them out. And of course this leaves the Marlins. Lowell and JP need to start hitting. Delgado is doing as good as you could have thought he would coming from the AL. Cabrera is doing better. Seabass is having an un-Seabass like year. Encarnacion is his streaky self. Team speed and power is down mostly in thanks to the disapperance of Lowell and JP. The pitching is still there well starting pitching at least. And is Todd Jones the man long term? As much of a great player Delgado might be he is not a "winner". He has never led a team somewhere. The Marlins need to rally around someone. Conine would be the apparent choice but the problem is he doesn't play much. And Lowell is just coming around but will he go back to his normal second half slump? As of now I will have to say the NL East will shake out WSH, PHI, FLA,ATL,NYM. Which of course means the Braves and Marlins will both be the top two teams.

Well today was the first time this trade paid off for the Nationals since Junior hit a 2-R HR in the 3-2 win. Time for the Marlins to make some moves that pay off.

I guess Johan Santana isn't an ace because when it comes to the playoffs he lays stinkers.

Ranking the aces http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3675630 D-Train 5 Josh 10 :whistle

The one that found a way to win during the season bombed in the WS. 803818[/snapback] Thats why he didn't let up a run in the WS right? :mischief

I think some of you go too far in discounting the value of the wins stat. 803810[/snapback] I think they do too considering these two guys play for the same team meaning they have the same team behind them. Its not like Josh is playing for Kansas City.

Volstad, other top picks close to signing By Mike Berardino Staff writer Posted June 10 2005 MIAMI GARDENS ? Chris Volstad, the Marlins' top pick in this week's amateur draft, said Thursday he has reached a tentative agreement on a $1.6 million signing bonus. Volstad, a right-hander from Palm Beach Gardens High School, would receive the same bonus as the 16th overall pick last year, per the commissioner's office guidelines. He said he hoped to sign a contract by this weekend and possibly attend a game at Dolphins Stadium as part of a formal announcement. He was on hand Wednesday night and sat with owner Jeffrey Loria. "I'm just ready to go play," said Volstad, who will start out in the Gulf Coast League with Jupiter. Roger Dean Stadium is a five-minute drive from his parents' home. A University of Miami signee, Volstad and his advisers still must negotiate the Marlins' contribution to the standard college plan. Because UM is a private school, the annual cost can run into the $35,000 range, significantly more than a public university. The Marlins also were believed to be nearing deals with their other first-rounders, Houston prep left-hander Aaron Thompson and McNeese State right-hander Jacob Marceaux. Thompson, picked 22nd overall, is looking for the slot bonus of $1.425 million, same as last year. Utah high school pitcher Mark Pawelek, taken two spots higher, signed this week with the Cubs for $1.75 million. Marceaux, taken 29th, is expected to receive the slot bonus of $1.1 million. California prep pitcher Ryan Tucker and Louisiana prep lefty Sean West, the Marlins' supplemental first-rounders, also were nearing agreement. Tucker's No. 34 slot paid $975,000 last year, while West's No. 44 slot brought $800,000. Second-rounders Kris Harvey, a Clemson outfielder, and Nevada catcher Brett Hayes weren't expected to hold out either. DEADLINE PASSES The Marlins, Miami-Dade County and Miami have not completed a financing deal for a $420 million ballpark next to the Orange Bowl, but Major League Baseball President Bob DuPuy, who asked for a progress report on the deal by Thursday, said discussions are ongoing. "We continue to talk, and I am trying to set up meetings with the three parties as soon as possible," DuPuy said late Thursday. The Marlins declined comment. TRADE WINDS The Marlins weren't that disappointed they failed to land Ugueth Urbina, in part because they believed he might complain if he wasn't immediately installed as their closer. Detroit traded Urbina to the Phillies on Wednesday, but he will set up for closer Billy Wagner. Urbina, who served as the Marlins closer during their 2003 World Series run, has 236 career saves, including nine this year in 11 chances. With Todd Jones thriving in the closer role and Guillermo Mota working his way back from elbow inflammation, the back of the Marlins' bullpen is fairly set. That's not to say they aren't looking for more help. Sources said the Marlins have expressed continuing trade interest in Orioles right-hander Jorge Julio. Yankees reliever Paul Quantrill is another trade possibility, provided the Yankees pay the bulk of his remaining salary. He is in the last season of a two-year, $6.4 million deal that pays him $3 million this year. The Marlins also have some interest in Rangers right-hander Ryan Drese, their Opening Day starter who was designated for assignment this week. Drese, 29, won 14 games last year and signed a two-year, $2.15 million contract this spring, including $1.75 million next year. The Rangers would have to eat a significant portion of that amount for the Marlins to make any deal. LUCKY SEVEN Thursday, manager Jack McKeon stuck with the same lineup that snapped the Marlins' four-game losing streak Wednesday. That alignment featured Juan Pierre batting seventh. Before Wednesday, Pierre had batted in that spot just one other time as a member of the Marlins. Staff Writers Sarah Talalay and Juan C. Rodriguez contributed to this report. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/custom/...sports-business

Offense shows no sign of life against M's By Joe Capozzi Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Friday, June 10, 2005 MIAMI GARDENS ? After the Marlins' first 27 losses this season, there always was optimism in the clubhouse about the team's ability to turn things around. The mood after loss No. 28 was different. Even gloomy. "There's a lot of negative energy around here. A lot," center fielder Juan Pierre said after Florida's lethargic offense failed to get a runner to second base Thursday night in an 8-0 loss to the Mariners. "We're not having fun. That was our M.O. the last two years. We had fun, guys laughing, joking around, picking each other up. We're just not getting the vibe right now.'' The 2005 Marlins were built to win the National League East. A little more than one-third of the way into the season, they are in last place, just one game over.500, and sounding like a team on the verge of collapse. "You have to wonder and say, 'Hey, is this one of those odd years?' " manager Jack McKeon said. "You hope it's not. You don't figure it is. I mean, the guys can't say they didn't get a chance.'' The Marlins at least had a lead in their previous 10 games. They never led Thursday while getting shut out for the third time this season. Seattle right-hander Aaron Sele scattered five hits. But Pierre wanted to take the blame for Florida's 12th loss in its past 15 games. He already had been dropped to seventh in the batting order because of his.252 average, nearly 50 points off his career average. Then, with one on and one out in the fourth inning of a scoreless game, Richie Sexson singled to center field. The ball skipped past Pierre, scoring Adrian Beltre. "That error set the tone for the night,'' Pierre said. Up to that point, Josh Beckett had pitched well. He struck out the first four batters of the game and faced 11 batters before Beltre singled. Florida couldn't get anything going, with the heart of its order popping out and bouncing into double plays, including one involving Pierre. After reaching base in the fifth on a fielder's choice, Pierre took off for second on a hit-and-run play. But he didn't see Alex Gonzalez pop the ball to third baseman Beltre, who made a soft toss to first for the double play. "Guys have got to look themselves in the mirror, mainly myself, and get it in gear,'' Pierre said. "You can't complain if you're not getting the job done, and this organization probably, if you don't get the job done, will get somebody in here to do the job." Randy Winn hit a solo home run to put Seattle up 2-0 in the sixth, but the game was already lost. The six runs Beckett allowed in the seventh didn't seem to matter. "I lost the game. You can't expect them to score eight runs every time out," said Beckett (7-4), who allowed 10 hits, eight runs and seven earned runs ? tying career highs in each of those categories ? while his ERA rose from 2.58 to 3.13. In the past 15 games, the Marlins' offense has averaged 3.3 runs a game. Although Beckett didn't agree, McKeon suggested the lack of scoring may be taking a toll on the starters. "It leaves you very little margin for error, no question about that,'' McKeon said. "But how much pressure? Each guy puts pressure on himself. The hitters go up there, they can't hit because... the manager doesn't like him, the front office doesn't like him or you guys write bad things about him. We're all held responsible, and we're accountable for what we do. Let's face it, I can't sit back here and blame you guys or anybody else if we don't do the job.'' Noteworthy: The last time Florida failed to get a runner to second base was Sept. 19, 2003. ... Ichiro Suzuki struck out twice but was 1-for-5, drawing him to within three hits of 1,000 in his Mariners career. I thought this line was important "The Marlins at least had a lead in their previous 10 games." So in the last 11 games we had the lead in 10 of those games. Its not like we are just dying from the get go.

Feeling frustrated Some players voice discord over McKeon. By Joe Capozzi Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Friday, June 10, 2005 MIAMI GARDENS ? All of the Marlins agree that the team is underachieving because top players are not performing to their potential. But some players also fault manager Jack McKeon, saying that he sets a negative tone. "There's obviously something wrong," said a player, one of five who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We don't have the same chemistry we had two years ago.'' It was May 2003 when McKeon was named to replace Jeff Torborg, who was fired. McKeon, who was known for his fiery temperament, led the struggling team to a World Series championship. But now, some players find his style abrasive and are weary of his profanity-laced critiques. Some also object to his shuffling of the lineup. McKeon contends that he hasn't changed since taking over the club. The difference now, he said, is the recent lack of success. "When things go tough, everybody has different theories," he said before Thursday's game. He added that he hasn't heard of any disharmony. "None of the players have complained," he said. "If you don't like something, come in and talk to me. My door's always open.'' Not everyone in the clubhouse is upset with McKeon's style. They point out that the Marlins went through a recent 2-11 skid in part because players who excelled in 2003 are playing poorly. Juan Pierre entered Thursday's game batting .256, more than 50 points below his career average. Mike Lowell has just two home runs. Through Wednesday, the team was second in the National League in batting average but 12th in runs scored. "How do you blame the manager?'' pitcher Josh Beckett said. "We're the problem. We're the players. We've just been struggling. "It's one of the those deals every team goes through. We went through it in 2003, too, remember? We got a new manager because of it." Because the Marlins have a winning record, Beckett and other players don't think McKeon will lose his job. But some players believe that McKeon's approach has intimidated their teammates and coaches. Last Friday at Washington, for example, Juan Encarnacion was easily thrown out at home after being waved in by third base coach Jeff Cox. Over the next two games, Cox held up at least two other runners on plays where they might have scored. "I think that's a direct result of Coxy being afraid to come back to the dugout and hearing, 'What . . . are we doing?' " another veteran said. "(McKeon) is putting a lot of pressure on the staff, and he is very negative." McKeon hasn't had the Midas touch he possessed in 2003, when unorthodox moves turned to gold. He once used light-hitting utility man Mike Mordecai as a pinch-runner for Mike Lowell and then let Mordecai hit. Mordecai responded with a home run. On Sunday, McKeon brought in Damion Easley to pinch-run for Lowell. Easley scored in the eighth inning and then stayed in the game at third base, his weakest infield position. Easley made a costly error on a hard grounder before Washington's Ryan Church hit a game-winning homer. In Pittsburgh on May 30, left-hander Matt Perisho was brought in to face Daryle Ward, a left-handed hitter, and walked him on four pitches. The next night, Ward came up and McKeon brought in right-hander Nate Bump, who gave up a home run. After that game, McKeon said he went against the percentages with Bump because "I wanted somebody to throw strikes.'' On Saturday, McKeon chewed out reliever Guillermo Mota on the mound in front of more than 30,000 at RFK Stadium. After the 7-3 loss, the manager continued to lay into his pitcher in front of the team during a closed-door meeting. "I don't like meetings, but sometimes I have to put the facts of life out in front of them,'' McKeon said Thursday. By Sunday, the atmosphere was so tense that Carlos Delgado and Paul Lo Duca called a players-only meeting. Delgado and Lo Duca urged teammates to "play for each other" and ignore outside pressure. During the 6-3 loss Sunday in Washington, some players noticed that they were congregated at one end of the bench while McKeon and coaches watched from the other end. "It was an us-versus-them feeling," a player said. On Tuesday, McKeon called Perisho into his office to tell the relief pitcher that he would be traded, released or demoted. "I walk in and he goes, 'Sit down, Mike,' " Perisho recalled. McKeon is known for forgetting players' names ? as part of a running joke, McKeon and Jeff Conine intentionally greet each other with different names ? but Perisho was insulted. "I pitched in 90 games for him," Perisho said, "and you can't even look me in the eyes and call me by my name?'' Pinch-hitter Lenny Harris, who played for McKeon in Cincinnati, acknowledged the uneasiness in the clubhouse but said McKeon's style was not the reason. "He expects you to play hard and give it all you got,'' Harris said. "And the lack of effort, he can tell. He can look you in the eye and yell. "Maybe some people are not used to that screaming. Well, he holds a lot back. He's just being old Jack. If you can't get used to Jack by now, you shouldn't even walk through this locker room. Some people don't feel that's necessary, but that's the way it is. "Look at Bill Parcells. He screamed at his players. All the great coaches did." http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/conten...SLUMP_0610.html

he did not let up a run in 3 apperances in the World Series. 803419[/snapback] It's probably in the best interest of your argument to not mention the 2003 World Series, it just makes the Beckett supporters case a bit stronger. I agree with the sentiment that if we have a game we need to win I want Beckett on the mound. I've seen what he can do when the game is a must... NLCS Game 5, NLCS Game 7, World Series Game 6 803426[/snapback] I know what Josh did in the 2003 playoffs versus what Willis did and I am not taking anything away from either. Lets not forget though in game one of the world series Penny left the 5th inning with a one run lead and Willis came in and kept the lead for a couple of inning before letting Urbina get the last 4 outs. This is after he had those bad games in the NLDS and NLCS talk about sucking it up. Game one of the world series and you are called on to nurse the lead for more than two innings in New York after blowing your last couple apperances. That is clutch. Beckett was hot all along and rolling. But Willis did win his last three starts of the 2003 regular season as well very important games as well. Willis also has show he can stay healthy and be the stopper when it comes to a losing streak. As I pointed out before Beckett has only won back to back starts 6 times, and never more than two consecutive starts from what I see. D-Train has won 7 in a row this year. An ace knows how to carry his team and let them know every 5 days he will deliever. Aces also are always there to pick their team up and be there every 5 days something Beckett has not shown he can promise yet either.

More stats Pitcher 1- .222 BA/.253 OBP/.299 SLG/2HRs Pitcher 2- .135 BA/.172 OBP/.179 SLG/0 HRs

Here's a lesson for you Marlins. W/L is the worst way to gauge how good a pitcher is. Josh Beckett Career: ERA: 3.36 WHIP: 1.24 BAA: .228 K/9: 9.11 Dontrelle Willis ERA: 3.40 WHIP: 1.29 BAA: .257 K/9: 7.06 Advantage Beckett. Your numbers are a little off ESPN has not added tonights game yet. MLB.com says for Beckett: ERA: 3.43 WHIP: 1.25 AVG: .233 k/9: 9.09 I would expect someone who seems obsessed about runs and offense that you would like the guy who allows less runs on average.I guess we just ignored Beckett's edge in the other three categories then. How many shutouts has Willis thrown with a season, a series, anything on the line? Look, Trelle's a great pitcher, but arguing Willis over Beckett as Ace is just like saying you'd give Mark Redman the ball in the playoffs over John Smoltz. It's just silly. 803407[/snapback] Seems to me people only look at the runs the Marlins have scored, ignoring average, and other numbers. Whats wrong with looking at wins and ERA and downplaying the others? Is it not all about how many runs you let up in the end of the day? Who's carried this team and picked them up and who tends to stumble through and get hurt during the regular season? 803413[/snapback] We are talking about two different things. When we speak of the offense we are talking about their performance in a whole. Their job is to score runs and not pile up high or low batting averages. In this case we are comparing two pitchers. When comparing two pitchers you use individual stats on their performance. Wins depend on how and when the offense scores runs and doesn't properly gauge a pitcher's performance accurately. 803417[/snapback] If you are comparing two pitchers wouldn't the biggest stat to look at is how many runs they allow on average? If you were given this: Pitcher 1: 3.40 ERA/34-19/7 CG/4 SHO/1.29 WHIP/7.09 k/9/.257 BAA Pitcher 2: 3.43 ERA/33-30/2 CG/2 SHO/1.25 WHIP/9.09 K/9/.233 BAA Who would you think is better? Pitcher 1 lets up 1 extra runner every 25 innings, and WHIP makes BAA a bit unnessacary since WHIP basically takes into account batting average and walks. Pitcher two strikes out more, but pitcher one seems to know how to perform for his team to win and can finish games. Oh yeah and pitcher 1 can hurt the other team in the batters box a career .222 hitter with 2 HRs and a .253 OBP versus pitcher 2 .135 hitter and a .172 OBP and no HRs. Did Dontrelle lay stinkers in the NLDS and NLCS in 2003? Yes but he did not let up a run in 3 apperances in the World Series. He also helped bring the team to the playoffs in 2003.

Here's a lesson for you Marlins. W/L is the worst way to gauge how good a pitcher is. Josh Beckett Career: ERA: 3.36 WHIP: 1.24 BAA: .228 K/9: 9.11 Dontrelle Willis ERA: 3.40 WHIP: 1.29 BAA: .257 K/9: 7.06 Advantage Beckett. Your numbers are a little off ESPN has not added tonights game yet. MLB.com says for Beckett: ERA: 3.43 WHIP: 1.25 AVG: .233 k/9: 9.09 I would expect someone who seems obsessed about runs and offense that you would like the guy who allows less runs on average.I guess we just ignored Beckett's edge in the other three categories then. How many shutouts has Willis thrown with a season, a series, anything on the line? Look, Trelle's a great pitcher, but arguing Willis over Beckett as Ace is just like saying you'd give Mark Redman the ball in the playoffs over John Smoltz. It's just silly. 803407[/snapback] Seems to me people only look at the runs the Marlins have scored, ignoring average, and other numbers. Whats wrong with looking at wins and ERA and downplaying the others? Is it not all about how many runs you let up in the end of the day? Who's carried this team and picked them up and who tends to stumble through and get hurt during the regular season?

If you make up a story and lie to the media and public over something stupid like this you are an idiot simple as that. And what do you want O'Dowd to say? Bad mouth who is going to be the face of his organization for years to come?

Here's a lesson for you Marlins. W/L is the worst way to gauge how good a pitcher is. Josh Beckett Career: ERA: 3.36 WHIP: 1.24 BAA: .228 K/9: 9.11 Dontrelle Willis ERA: 3.40 WHIP: 1.29 BAA: .257 K/9: 7.06 Advantage Beckett. 803394[/snapback] Your numbers are a little off ESPN has not added tonights game yet. MLB.com says for Beckett: ERA: 3.43 WHIP: 1.25 AVG: .233 k/9: 9.09 I would expect someone who seems obsessed about runs and offense that you would like the guy who allows less runs on average.

Barmes now says he was carrying deer meat Story Tools: Print Email Associated Press Posted: 2 hours ago DENVER (AP) - Colorado Rockies rookie shortstop Clint Barmes now says he was lugging a package of deer meat he got from teammate Todd Helton, not a bag of groceries, when he fell and broke his collarbone. "I just didn't think it was right to bring Todd Helton into something like this," Barmes was quoted as saying in The Denver Post on Thursday, explaining why he gave a different version of the story when he first recounted the strange fall that will sideline him for at least three months. Barmes, who leads NL rookies in most offensive categories, underwent successful surgery Tuesday to repair the break in his left collarbone. Team doctors inserted a titanium plate and nine screws to help the bone heal. Helton said he and Barmes rode four-wheel, all-terrain vehicles at Helton's ranch near Greeley on Sunday after the Rockies beat the Cincinnati Reds 8-6. Helton said the ATV ride had nothing to do with the injury. Clint Barmes will be out at least three months after falling while carrying deer meat. (Ed Andrieski / Associated Press) "I cannot say it strongly enough - he did not get hurt riding an ATV," Helton told the newspaper. "I was there. He never left my eyesight the entire time." Helton said he, Barmes and rookie teammate Brad Hawpe were riding about 5 mph. Afterward, he treated them to a dinner that included deer meat, and Barmes liked it so much that Helton gave him a package. Nothing in Barmes' contract, which is only $1,000 above the major league minimum, specifically prohibits him from riding an ATV. Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd said he doesn't doubt Barmes' explanation that it was a fall, and not the ATV ride, that caused the injury. "This is one of the greatest-character kids we've ever had come through this organization," O'Dowd said. "I have no reason to doubt him. It's an unfortunate injury for both him and for us, but he'll get through this." http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3678588

Josh is such an ace he has won back to back starts 6 times since the start of the 2002 season, playoffs included. Chew on that number for a while.

I don't think he'll ever be seeing that $5 million. He gets the minimum this year and will pick up that 500k next year to dump him. For them its worth it because their pen stinks and look at it this way they didn't lose anything but the 500k they'll lose next year for picking him up since they didn't trade for him.