Tek tC

id do it if I were the Red Sox, we get to finally get rid of Halama and Embree 870164[/snapback] But we would get lowell and his fat slothy contract

Drain our farm system in return? for a half-season, injury prone, rental? I'll pass 868589[/snapback] Hmmm... maybe now you know what the O's and sox feel about burnett... 868769[/snapback] bit different when Burnett has a whole career ahead of him and griffeys is winding down. bad comparison 868782[/snapback] The reason it is a good comparison is because either way burnett is a rental, like griffey. its not like the sox would benefit from burnett's season after this one if they didnt resign him... besides, griffey still ahs a few years in him

Drain our farm system in return for a half-season, injury prone, rental? I'll pass 868589[/snapback] Hmmm... maybe now you know what the O's and sox feel about burnett...

Also I think everyone is setting the bar way too high in trades. Trading for Burnett is one thing, but having a team take on a giant contract for the next two years really limits Burnetts value. The O's may be offering crap (except Penn and maybe Julio) but if a Arroyo and Mays for Burnett and Lowell deal came up thats probaly one of the best deals they could get since having Lowell really limits the number of teams interested and number of teams interested that would take on Lowells salary. Be reasonable your not getting Marte/ McCarthy, not Chachin, not Cabrera, and not Hanley. 868747[/snapback] exactly, besides havent you all been complaining that you dont want to give up on this year? You would be getting 2 MLB pitchers with 4 eras. PLUS you get payroll flexibility and the ability to add a big name at the deadline or in the off season with lowell gone.

Youklis is a part-time player who has proven not alot in his short career. Perhaps in years to come he'll mature into a bonafide major leaguer but he isn't one today and you aren't going get enough for him in a trade to justify taking him. The only reason to take him? is to package him for more pitching. 867845[/snapback] What are any prospects??? Hanley, Penn, Shoppach??? Like i said, the sox are confident Youks can step in and take over 3B next year, that isnt good enough for you? 867859[/snapback] Not particularly, no. As I said, and I wasn't demeaning the guy, he may turn out to be a bonafide major leaguer. And he may work out for the Red Sox...or he may not. For all your emphasis on his walks, he's struck out almost twice as many times as he's walked. He's a work in progress, nothing more. 867870[/snapback] Agreed, his K totals are up, but like you said his playing time has been limited. I would imagine being moved up and down between AAA and the bigs might not let you settle in very much and learn the pitchers. I am fairly confident he will reverse that trend when given regular playing time. given 300 AB in AA posted a .487 OBP , with 86 walks and 40K's that meant he got on base nearly half his plate appearences. sick.

Youklis is a part-time player who has proven not alot in his short career. Perhaps in years to come he'll mature into a bonafide major leaguer but he isn't one today and you aren't going get enough for him in a trade to justify taking him. The only reason to take him is to package him for more pitching. 867845[/snapback] What are any prospects??? Hanley, Penn, Shoppach??? Like i said, the sox are confident Youks can step in and take over 3B next year, that isnt good enough for you?

And we need another third baseman because? Not to mention with no power. The "hit machine" has 18 hits this season. I'm not saying the teams shouldn't try to patch up their differences, and I suspect Gammons only knows that they have been in communication, but beyond that (and I like Stark) I suspect he really doesn't know the particulars being discussed. The other day when Gammons was on with Boog, he was saying that the Marlins, if they traded Lowell, would still need to figure out who would play third, until Boog interjected (very deferrentially) that Cabrera would be moving to third. Sheepishly, Gammons concurred and since then he's included that in his coments. Stark and Gammons (and all the national media guys) are good at the big picture stuff and have great sources, but often miss the little stuff that is really the genesis of why a trade is occurring. With 30 teams to cover it's no surprise. 867800[/snapback] he's not a hit machine he's a walk machine i'm not saying Youkilis the perfect answer. But from my perspective, this deal keeps our talent level exactly as it is right now (AJ + today's Lowell = Arroyo + Youkilis, i'd say) but gets us a bunch more years of payroll flexibility. and re: "why do we need a 3rd baseman"....i'm assuming you're confident that Hermida is ready for the majors, because otherwise we're either gonna need a third baseman or an outfielder if we deal Lowell. and who knows if Hermida is ready....not everyone is Miggy. 867836[/snapback] I dont think sox would do this anyway - Youks is set to take over at 3b, and unless the fish sent lowell dressed in dollar bills it wouldnt make sense for the marginal upgrade from burnett to arroyo for the rest fo the season / post season 2 bargains for 2 fortunes are not what the sox are interested in.

Excuse me? I really don't need these insults. Perhaps that how you do things on red Sox boards but you could try to be a little more civil and understand there is room for more opinions than just yours. If my posts were opinions they would look like yours, I am using real numbers to back up by observations that make sense. Put some thought in your posts, so that you can defend them

Youk's Average is higher than lowell's OBP, that is laughable, much like Many of Marlins2003's posts

And we need another third baseman because? Not to mention with no power. The "hit machine" has 18 hits this season. I'm not saying the teams shouldn't try to patch up their differences, and I suspect Gammons only knows that they have been in communication, but beyond that (and I like Stark) I suspect he really doesn't know the particulars being discussed. The other day when Gammons was on with Boog, he was saying that the Marlins, if they traded Lowell, would still need to figure out who would play third, until Boog interjected (very deferrentially) that Cabrera would be moving to third. Sheepishly, Gammons concurred and since then he's included that in his coments. Stark and Gammons (and all the national media guys) are good at the big picture stuff and have great sources, but often miss the little stuff that is really the genesis of why a trade is occurring. With 30 teams to cover it's no surprise. 867800[/snapback] Just stop talking. I said on base machine. he has 18 hits in 63 AB u tool, thats a .286 average, and a .384 OBP. better than your current 3B Do some research, and stop basing your posts on a move the sox made 2 years ago. get over it!

you betcha....now we need to get that fat catcher Brown. what ever happened to that guy? http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/jeremy_brown.shtml Doing OK, but not a 1st round draft pick

Arroyo and Youklis....WOW.? do it. 867652[/snapback] pretty good but i want more maybe bellhorn 867775[/snapback] Do youu guys watch the sox? Bellhorn: YEAR G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS 2005 85 283 41 61 20 0 7 28 49 109 3 0 .216 .328 .360 .689 Yes, 109 K's to go along with a .216 BA and a .328 OBP

Why would we want Youklis? No power, plays third (have I said enough??). And we certainly don't want Embree. OMG no. BUT THAT SAID, a professional hitter to platoon in left with Conine, and come off the bench might be John Olerud. yeah, I know he's always been a first baseman but he's cheap, he's a pro's pro and with Arroyo, and a prospect (no I'm not saying Hanely) there might be a deal there. I'd love to say Nixon but he makes too much money and is under contract for 2006 at Lowell equivalent $$$ and has a no-trade clause. Perhaps, Millar, but I'd immediately trade him for pitching. In fact I wouldn't make a trade with him involved unless we already had a trade for him in place. The biggest problem will be to overcome the bad blood between the two organizations. 867675[/snapback] we could flip Youkilis to Oakland in a second! :-) just because Cabrera can play third doesn't mean we have no use for a 3rd baseman...he can also play left field, too. Youkilis may not be the dream 3B (i agree with the lack of power) but he seems to be a great hitter otherwise, and baseball history has shown that good hitters can develop power easier than power hitters can become good hitters. Power is not the solution to everything - see Hee Seop Choi. Combine that with the fact that Arroyo won't be a free agent until 2007, and I'll take it. meets all the criteria: keeps in contention this season, gives us a foundation down the road, saves us money. 867758[/snapback] :goodpost a moneyball reader no doubt Tho I dont agree with moving Youks to OF

Why would we want Youklis? No power, plays third (have I said enough??). And we certainly don't want Embree. OMG no. BUT THAT SAID, a professional hitter to platoon in left with Conine, and come off the bench might be John Olerud. yeah, I know he's always been a first baseman but he's cheap, he's a pro's pro and with Arroyo, and a prospect (no I'm not saying Hanely) there might be a deal there. I'd love to say Nixon but he makes too much money and is under contract for 2006 at Lowell equivalent $$$ and has a no-trade clause. 867675[/snapback] I've never been a huge fan of Youkilis, but he does have more power than Lowell at this point, and his on-base ability would provide a huge boost to the bottom of the lineup. And most importantly he makes the minimum. and you've gotta be kidding me with the Olerud in left thing. Talk about a guy with no power, and certainly a liability if he's in left. 867730[/snapback] Oh wow, marlins2003 continues to show his intelligence, i didnt even notice he wanted to platoon Olerud in left... Olerud is one of, if not the slowest player on any MLB roster. good luck with that

TAKE IT AND RUN isn't McCarthy missing from that deal? we're taken on Contreras contract Aren't the Yankees already paying a huge part of Contreras' contract anyways? 867710[/snapback] In return, the Yankees get Esteban Loaiza who was 21-9 last year with an impressive 2.90 ERA. The deal was sealed a minute before today's 4pm trade deadline and the White Sox get an extra $3 million in addition to Contreras. http://www.shortnews.com/shownews.cfm?id=41668 guess not a bunch...

who is youkilis and why would we want contreras 867687[/snapback] Youkilis is an on base machine, currently running in a taxi service between the sox and their AAA affiliate. backup 3B, slated by some to be the Sox starting 3B next year with Mueller being a free agent http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/kevin_youkilis.shtml 867703[/snapback] is he young? 867716[/snapback] If you bothered to click the link you would have seen that he was born in 1979 and drafted in 2001

B+F should be fired. They had a deal to steal Burnett from the Marlins, but decided it wasn't good enough. If the Marlins offered Mike Lowell, AJ Burnett, Josh Beckett, and Dontrelle Willis for Steve Kline, the Orioles would still try to get the Marlins to pay Lowell's contract. 867700[/snapback] If at the beginning of the season the Yanks offered you Giambi and Hideki matsui for Enc. would you do it? probably not. why? because giambi was a dead end, and was owed lots of money stop acting like lowell is an asset. he is a liability.

who is youkilis and why would we want contreras 867687[/snapback] Youkilis is an on base machine, currently running in a taxi service between the sox and their AAA affiliate. backup 3B, slated by some to be the Sox starting 3B next year with Mueller being a free agent http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/kevin_youkilis.shtml

MARKET REPORT Hmmm. Maybe Burnett won't be eating crabmeat omelets for breakfast after all. The Marlins have gotten tired of waiting for the Orioles to figure out their stance on Burnett and Mike Lowell. So the Fish were back on the phone Wednesday, exploring other options. Indications were that they planned to talk to the Red Sox, White Sox and Yankees. And Florida was clearly trying to send a message to Baltimore that if the Orioles don't take Lowell, there's a better deal out there than Baltimore's offer for Burnett alone (Jorge Julio, Steve Kline and Hayden Penn). So the big rumor Wednesday afternoon had Boston trading Bronson Arroyo, Kevin Youkilis and a third player still being discussed for Burnett and Lowell. But one baseball man who had spoken with the Red Sox said the two teams hadn't discussed that trade at any point Wednesday. The Red Sox were, however, believed to be talking about another deal with the Twins that would match Boston's need for pitching with Minnesota's quest for more offense. In the meantime, the Marlins were back out there exploring whether they could get a veteran starter AND a reliever if they deal Burnett. You can just about forget the Yankees, who don't appear to match up with the Marlins at all. And while Arroyo would be exactly what Florida was looking for from the Red Sox, the Marlins would be challenged to find a bullpen arm in Boston -- although it's possible they would take a shot at just-designated Alan Embree. But if the White Sox are still willing to trade Jose Contreras, Damaso Marte and outfield prospect Brian Anderson, that was believed to be Florida's preferred package from the beginning. The Orioles, meanwhile, have balked at trading any of their starting pitchers except Sidney Ponson. And Florida has zero interest in him. So where is this heading? Good question. The Orioles had a clear path to reel in Burnett as recently as Monday. But now -- thanks to their reservations about taking on Lowell and, according to an official of one club, some late-breaking worries about whether they even could afford to include Julio -- may suddenly have left them running third in this derby. --------- Meanwhile the folks in Baltimore are still in denial. 867640[/snapback] TAKE IT AND RUN isn't McCarthy missing from that deal? we're taken on Contreras contract 867659[/snapback] Yeah but aren't the Sox supposed to take on Lowell's contract, essentially making it a swap of bad contracts? Still though I'd like to see the Fish get their hands on McCarthy, even though they've already got a ton of pitching prospects. 867682[/snapback] I wouldnt be suprised if the yanks are eating a large portion of contreras' contract but I am not sure

Why would we want Youklis? No power, plays third (have I said enough??). And we certainly don't want Embree. OMG no. BUT THAT SAID, a professional hitter to platoon in left with Conine, and come off the bench might be John Olerud. yeah, I know he's always been a first baseman but he's cheap, he's a pro's pro and with Arroyo, and a prospect (no I'm not saying Hanely) there might be a deal there. I'd love to say Nixon but he makes too much money and is under contract for 2006 at Lowell equivalent $$$ and has a no-trade clause. Perhaps, Millar, but I'd immediately trade him for pitching. In fact I wouldn't make a trade with him involved unless we already had a trade for him in place. The biggest problem will be to overcome the bad blood between the two organizations. 867675[/snapback] Nixon does not have a no trade clause, in fact no red sox have one. (excepy tek but that is a policy, not part fo a contract) He also makes substantially less then lowell (lowells contract has wicked amounts of deferred money, and me makes more to begin with) No clue why you would want milalr, and why you think you could trade him for pitching, because the sox would have done that already Take Olerud, we have a better 1B rotting in AAA in Roberto Petagine get over youself with the 'bad blood'

You mean little Theo. You Red Sox fanatics need to understand you just can't always get what you want. I know it's hard to accept, but such is life. And to answer your question, with 28 other trading partners out there, there's always someone to do business with. Relationships are built, trust is earned. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me. The rules of baseball are no different than the rules of life. Perhaps it will come to pass that little Theo finds a way atone for his past sins, and John Henry and Jeffrey Loria patch up their differences, but until then, it is what is. It may be that they can patch things up. But my guess, in order to do so, the Red Sox will probably have to assign someone else to negotiate rather than little Theo. Time will tell what happens. 866142[/snapback] Actually the Red Sox seem to have done quite well without having the Marlins as trading partners. Hey you're right, take the Orioles deal. Trade a stud SP and get a bunch of spare parts in return. 866228[/snapback] You obviously didn't read what I wrote. And for the record, I was a diehard Red Sox fan for 40 years and in my youth was honored to know Curt and Ned. Ned Martin, whose name you've taken, was a gentleman and a great broadcaster. I've probably seen 800+ games at Fenway. I don't dislike the "team", the franchise is a different story. 866264[/snapback] You obviously didn't respond to what I wrote. So what you were a sox fan for 40 years and gave up and followed the marlins when they won it all? Your only beef with 'little theo' is that he is a shrewd business man that knows how to get things done.

Educate me oh wise one For a player to be release by a team, or traded overseas, they must clear waivers. It is the rules. Theo played by those rules, and helped out Millar in the process. Sorry if there are hard feelings beacuse your front office thinks they had a deal without checking the appropriate rules before making such an agreement. I am very aware of what Henry has done for the sox, and it is glorious.

Hah, so you have met Theo and know of his ethics? 865995[/snapback] We've already seen little Theo in action thank you in the Millar debacle. He's already proven himself to not be an ethical person. That episode, where little Theo tried to make his bones, probably cost the Sox any chance of getting into the AJ action. I never met Mussolini either, that doesn't mean everyone doesn't know he was a fascist. Then there's John Henry, but that's another story... 866009[/snapback] What Millar debacle? Theo saved Millar's carrer and gave him a world series ring by blocking him from going to japan. Henry is an owner dedicated to the sox fans and the team.

Hah, so you have met Theo and know of his ethics?

Aj is your best barganing chip for movin lowell's salary. with AJ: "You want Aj? give us prospects and take lowell" without Aj: "Pleeeaaase take Lowell??? We will chip in 15mill!"