Lcyberlina

The woman was hired by Kerry. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040915/D853SKCG0.html And the story is simple. The owner of the company is a staunch Republican and got upset when he saw her bumpersticker. He ordered her to get rid of it or "else"... Read the story... http://slate.msn.com/id/2106714

See how they all run like roaches??? They like to talk tough, but when it comes to offer your butt to fight for your stupid beliefs, then is another story right? Chickenhawks are only chickens.

So who of you chicken hawks is goin' with Jeff! Most of you are of military age, who is going????? :confused 563504[/snapback] My father just sent out the same challenge to this kid in my area who was a delegate and correspondent for my paper at THe RNC and bashed every protestor and bragged about how great a leader George was for this war and all that. So my dad simply wrote to the editor and called the kid to volunteer so a few of my friends brothers could come home. He also quoted a reporter formerly of The Baltimore SUn Times who asked why doesn't George sign up his daughters. 563520[/snapback] Yes, a lot of people who scream "I support the troops" do not really support them. If one supports the troops, one would want them to be out of harm's way and not fighting a quagmire.... Sorry but the logic of "if you are against the war, you don't support the troops" is just ridiculous. I support the troops by wanting them to be home and safe! :mad :

An e-mail from a former student deployed to Iraq: From : jeff ----- Sent : Wednesday, September 15, 2004 3:52 PM To : Subject : Farewell To those who are interested, I must leave our lovely little group and have been forced to drop all of my classes. This occurence is directly tied to our fearless leader George W. Thanks to him and his war-mongering I have been recalled into service for an 18 month tour in Iraq. Although we have not had a chance to really get to know each other I thought that I could tell my story. So if you are not interested in gaining a little perspective you can stop reading now. It all started in 2000, I was graduating from high school and was determined to do something that I viewed as beneficial for the world, as well as my life. I joined the army in august (Clinton was still president) with the hope of being involved in peacekeeping and humanitarian missions. These missions were the future of military force as far as I was concerned so I asked for the job that I viewed as the most dangerous yet entertaining. I became a scout, leading the army and conducting three man recon patrols behind enemy lines. This sounded so romantic (in a very heterosexual way!!) at the beginning. I was stationed in Germany (as my contract had stated) in January of 2001. I had fallen in love with Germany and Europe during a school exchange program in '99 as well as during my senior backpacking adventure in the summer of '00. So I was excited as hell to be back in a culturally diverse world, away from the dirty right-wing Orange County. Let me also clarify that I had always been a McCain republican in my younger years, before I turned into a Green. To continue the story I will jump to Sep.11, 2001. This is the most impacting day in most of our lifetimes and personally I was forced to change. My beautiful world of traveling through parts of Europe on my off-time and driving down the Autobahn was gone. I found myself doing battle with the elements and standing guard at family housing complexes while the world I had only begun to explore was lost forever. The friends and exchange families that I used to visit on a regular basis as well as my beautiful German girlfriend became secondary to this mission. The city I was stationed in became quite polarized with many brawls breaking out between soldiers and germans as well as between soldiers and turks. In early 2002 I was blessed with a breath of fresh air, finally getting to Kosovo on a seven month mission. I can't say that working 24/7 for seven months is very fun, but I will say that it was worth every minute. We had our troubles and mindless acts of violence but good was getting done. I wish I could write this subject to death but this letter has already become much longer than I had anticipated. So let's jump to the second gulf war. This was the most difficult time for me, a free thinker in the midst of a community preparing to kill people based on lies and patriotic rhetoric. I was known as a leftist and I tried my hardest to talk sense into the people around me who spoke making necklaces out of ears, but I also had to be careful. I was being pushed to get my sergeant stripes (a huge step in military careers) but I was getting close to the end of my enlistment. To make a good story short and un-informational, (classified information goes here)... then I was brought back to Germany to prepare our soldiers who would be coming into Iraq as additional troops to back up the initial wave. Less than three weeks before my unit was ordered to Iraq I left the army and my brothers, with a broken heart and a shattered soul. I could not participate in this war anymore, but I had to leave the people that depended on this tight group for survival. As of today I have buried 3 friends and have numerous others sitting in hospitals all over the country and my platoon is still over there. In a very ironic twist of fate I may be the one relieving them to come home. I wish that there wasn't more, but there is. I could go on for another six pages but if you have stuck it out this far I don't think you want to read anymore. In short, this all came crashing down on July 31st, I was on vacation with my fiance (formerly "beautiful german girlfriend") in Germany showing my fresh HS graduate sister and my old HS best friend where I had found my happiness. I recieved a phone call and was given orders to report in 48 hours for deployment to Iraq. It was a bit surprising, but I am a man to honor commitments so for a hefty $3000 I was on a plane the next morning, once again leaving those who I cared for as secondary to the mission. Upon return I was told that I would be waiting around for a possible mission and that I would be called when they needed me. So I re-registered for school (having already dropped classes as ordered) and started coming to class. Then two weeks into the semester the call comes. Now I am leaving. I am against this war, but I will go and do what I know too well that I am good at. I will take your neighbors, friends and relatives into a death trap, a poltical war being fought for all the wrong reasons. I intend to bring them out safely but our presence their only incites violence and opposition. While we pay foreign contractors and puppet governments astounding salaries we let the Iraqi people dwell in their poverty and joblessness. No jobs and nothing to do except fight us! Finally, the biggest mockey of all the lives we have already lost is the administration line "we have enough troops to do the job". I am a soldier, I wear the stripes of a sergeant and many will question me but I only bring all of this up to ask you something. Is this what you voted for? And if it is please come to meet me at any one of the graves of my friends and sign an enlistment contract. If this is what you want shut your mouth and come with me. So who of you chicken hawks is goin' with Jeff! Most of you are of military age, who is going???? :confused

"If we make the wrong choice, we will be hit again". Take it from Dick Cheney, Vote Kerry/Edwards 2004 for a safer America What Bush's administration claims to be doing is not supported by evidence: Conflicts of Interest May Hurt Nuke Security Airport Detectors Still Vulnerable to Terrorists America's Ports Still Vulnerable to Attack

Ben Barnes talked about how he helped lil' Bush get in the guard ahead of others and helped him dodge Vietnam. Of course Bush didn't that on the networks... People would see him for the coward he is.? :mischief2? I would like to know how did he pull that one of :mischief 548585[/snapback] The problem is that Barnes doesn't seem credible. If only 10% of what the GOP is claiming about him is true, he's pretty damaged goods. http://www.gop.com/RNCResearch/Read.aspx?ID=4625 548674[/snapback] If we believed 10% of what the GOP says about anyone... :whistle

He is a rat and needs to be with the rats. Don't call yourself a Democrat when you are clearly not one. I call that treason. LETTER TO ZELL MILLER: 'You have betrayed our trust' Jimmy Carter - For the Journal-Constitution Wednesday, September 8, 2004 To Sen. Zell Miller: You seem to have forgotten that loyal Democrats elected you as mayor [of Young Harris] and as state senator. Loyal Democrats, including members of my family and me, elected you as state senator, lieutenant governor and governor. It was a loyal Democrat, Lester Maddox, who assigned you to high positions in the state government when you were out of office. It was a loyal Democrat, Roy Barnes, who appointed you as U.S. senator when you were out of office. By your historically unprecedented disloyalty, you have betrayed our trust. Great Georgia Democrats who served in the past, including Walter George, Richard Russell, Herman Talmadge and Sam Nunn, disagreed strongly with the policies of Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and me, but they remained loyal to the party in which they gained their public office. Other Democrats, because of philosophical differences or the race issue, like Bo Callaway and Strom Thurmond, at least had the decency to become Republicans. Everyone knows that you were chosen to speak at the Republican National Convention because of your being a "Democrat," and it's quite possible that your rabid speech damaged our party and paid the GOP some transient dividends. Perhaps more troublesome of all is seeing you adopt an established and very effective Republican campaign technique of destroying the character of opponents by wild and false allegations. The Bush campaign's personal attacks on the character of John McCain in South Carolina in 2000 was a vivid example. The claim that war hero Max Cleland was a disloyal American and an ally of Osama bin Laden should have given you pause, but you have joined in this ploy by your bizarre claims that another war hero, John Kerry, would not defend the security of our nation except with spitballs. (This is the same man whom you described previously as "one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders --- and a good friend.") I, myself, served in the Navy from 1942 to 1953, and, as president, greatly strengthened our military forces and protected our nation and its interests in every way. I don't believe this warrants your referring to me as a pacifist. Zell, I have known you for 42 years and have, in the past, respected you as a trustworthy political leader and a personal friend. But now, there are many of us loyal Democrats who feel uncomfortable in seeing that you have chosen the rich over the poor, unilateral pre-emptive war over a strong nation united with others for peace, lies and obfuscation over the truth, and the political technique of personal character assassination as a way to win elections or to garner a few moments of applause. These are not the characteristics of great Democrats whose legacy you and I have inherited. Sincerely, and with deepest regrets, Jimmy Carter

Ben Barnes talked about how he helped lil' Bush get in the guard ahead of others and helped him dodge Vietnam. Of course Bush didn't want that on the networks... People would see him for the coward he is. :mischief2 I would like to know how did he pull that one of :mischief

Having us all killed, catatrosphic results, nothing you said is correct, if you think that Bush is not actively trying to make every step necessary to make this country safer, than you just dont want to see the facts 534512[/snapback] Apply that quote to yourself. Maybe you don't want to see the facts and realize that Bush has no idea what the hell he is doing, neither do his people. Are you one of those poor missinformed souls that believes we are fighting the terrorists in Iraq?

Because he is a real leader not a made up one. I don't want someone with empty slogans, but real knowledge on the issues. John Kerry can answer tough questions that Bush seems to have no clue about. I am confident that if asked what Tribal sovereignity is, John Kerry will answer appropriately, you know like he knows what he is talking about. I really don't know where the Republicans get that George Bush is such a great leader, because when he was needed the most, he showed total lack of leadership by seating on a classroom while people where being killed in 9/11. I am voting for a real man.

.... he'll pursue such a determined course." -RUDOLPH W. GIULIANI 534407[/snapback] :plain Determined course leading us towards Catastrophic results. Yeah I like his stubborn determination to have us all killed and for not recognizing his mistakes... Nice leadership.

Robert Novak is about as believable as Hannity or anything coming from Fox News. Swift Boat Veterans are lying about Kerry's record. I don't care how many of them sign "affidavits" with lies. The Navy Records prove them wrong, the men that served with Kerry IN HIS BOAT prove them wrong and what is even worse, they're own words in the past prove them wrong. What else do you want? Admin Thurlow said there was no small arms fire, but his citation for his Bronze star says otherwise. George Elliott, Kerry's Commander, says Kerry has not been "honest" about his record, but yet he praised him in laudable words in 1996. None of those veterans ever served in Kerry's boat. O'Neill wasn't even in Vietnam when Kerry was there. Lies, Lies , Lies. They are so transparent it is a joke. :lol

The problem is distrotion of facts, bush family has connection saudis, HOWEVER, flight records indicate that no one left the country when moore claims the bin laden fmaily did, and even if they did its a normal diplomatic procedure, furthermore bin laden's family disowned Usama bin laden. Second it is not fact that bush went awol from the national guard there is facts and research that cna be used to argue both. Moore passes it as hard fact. And by the way sorianofan can you be so kind as to give lina the link to the facts revealing the lies in moore's film. 528291[/snapback] The movie correctly states the facts. He never claimed that they left before the airways were opened. The people who claim this, are distorting the facts themselves. Michael didn't make the question as if to fault the family for Osama's actions. He QUESTIONED the fact that they just let them go without further interrogating them. It seems pretty clear to me. Bush went AWOL on the National Guard. It is a fact. I don't really care. Many of you would dodge the Draft if you had to and if I had a son or daughter I would do anything to keep them from getting drafted. I don't fault him for that, but it bothers me that he has the nerve to come out as Mr. Strong on military when in fact he has no idea what is to be under fire. I don't want any links to anything Sorianofan and other people here have to offer. I saw the movie, I've read, I've lived the events. I don't need anyone to tell me what to think, not even Michael Moore, whith whom I disagree deeply on other issues. Moore put into Farenheit 9/11 what I and other people already knew. So if you call Michael a liar, you are practically telling me that the past 3 years never happened. Thank you and God Bless you.

It seems more that the reason he resigned was b/c he didnt want the ads to be connected to the bush campaign by any link whatsoever. This can be read whichever way you like, but the swift boat veterans ads are getting too much publicity, which is making people forget whats actually important, which are current issues not a war that happened 30 yrs ago. and besides moveon.org and michael moore arent being denounced by anyone for their lies 527017[/snapback] I wholeheartedly agree... We need to move on. Not one of the Moveon.org ads or Michael Moore's movie claims have been denounced as false, contrary to the slander thrown by the Swift Boat liars for Bush. 528277[/snapback] OMG are you insane?! There are as more lies(as sorianofan_ pointed out) in moore's movie that can be esaily seen using hard facts than in the swift boat ads. And moveon, please dont get anyone started, they invented lying. Just b/c the swift boat vets dont agree with you're views does not make them liars anymore than michael moore. Be objective, michael moore is a liar, moveon is a hotbed of lies, and so is swift boat veterans for truth 528280[/snapback] I don't take anything coming from Sorianofan as the truth. Tell me one thing: Is it true that Bush's family is connected to the Saudis? Is it true that there were no WMDs? Is it true that Bush was Bush in that movie? or did Michael Moore just made up the things he said and did in those clips? Is it true that President Bush went AWOL on the National Guard? Just please tell me which claims are not true.

It seems more that the reason he resigned was b/c he didnt want the ads to be connected to the bush campaign by any link whatsoever. This can be read whichever way you like, but the swift boat veterans ads are getting too much publicity, which is making people forget whats actually important, which are current issues not a war that happened 30 yrs ago. and besides moveon.org and michael moore arent being denounced by anyone for their lies 527017[/snapback] I wholeheartedly agree... We need to move on. Not one of the Moveon.org ads or Michael Moore's movie claims have been denounced as false, contrary to the slander thrown by the Swift Boat liars for Bush.

Did you see that moron Michelle Malkin get utterly crushed by Chris Matthews? I mean she got worked badly along with Admin Thurlow of the swift boat vets. The next day she went crying to Rush and posted that Matthews was a caveman or somehting on her website. 528268[/snapback] Michelle Malkwho? I never heard of her until I saw her on Chris's show... Boy is she nasty. She even looks at you like you are scum... What a bleep! I thought Chris handled her pretty well. I wish more journalists would call these pseudo-journalists on their lies and attempt to spin the truth. O'Reilly? I never subject myself to such torture. Rune what are you doing giving money to the people who want to kill Democracy and truth? :thumbdown

The mother of all backlashes has begun... Volunteer Links Anti-Kerry Flier to GOP By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer CRAWFORD, Texas - A volunteer for John Kerry said Friday he picked up a flier in Bush-Cheney headquarters in Gainesville, Fla., promoting Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group the Bush campaign has insisted for weeks it has no connection to. The Kerry campaign e-mailed the flier to news organizations Friday, declaring that the Bush-Cheney campaign was "busted" for coordinating "in their smear campaign against John Kerry." At Bush-Cheney campaign headquarters outside Washington, spokesman Steve Schmidt said: "The Bush-Cheney campaign has nothing to do with that piece of paper. ... I don't know how it showed up at the campaign headquarters." "The Bush-Cheney campaign would object to any flier like this being displayed in any Republican headquarters," said Schmidt. The flier distributed at Alachua County Republican Party headquarters promotes a weekend rally sponsored by "Swift Boat Vets for Truth" and other groups. Bill Shilling, a Kerry volunteer in Gainesville, says he went to the GOP offices there Thursday and picked up the flier from a pile of literature on the table. "The flier they gave me was on the same table as some Bush-Cheney bumper stickers," said Shilling. "I asked them if the Swift boat veterans were coming to Gainesville, and the woman I talked to said yes." Shilling said he went back to Kerry headquarters and turned over the flier. "I thought there was supposed to be some separation between Bush-Cheney and the Swift boat controversy but I didn't understand there was a big deal about this," said Shilling. "I think this whole thing attacking Kerry's war record is a diversion by Bush-Cheney from the real issues of the campaign." Financed by a Texas businessman with longtime ties to prominent Republicans in the state, including President Bush (news - web sites), Swift Boat Veterans for Truth sponsored an ad featuring several Vietnam veterans who accuse Kerry of lying about the circumstances surrounding events for which he won his medals. Kerry received a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts while in Vietnam. The anti-Kerry group distributed a second commercial to the news media and said it would begin airing the ad next week in Pennsylvania, Nevada and New Mexico, the last a state Bush plans to visit next Thursday. The ad intersperses clips of a youthful Kerry talking about war atrocities during an appearance before Congress in 1971 with images of veterans condemning his testimony. The Kerry campaign filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (news - web sites) alleging Swift Boat Veterans for Truth was illegally coordinating its efforts with the Bush-Cheney campaign. The Kerry campaign cited recent press reports and the group's own statements. The Bush campaign denied the allegation, as did the organization that aired the ad. Swifboat Liars For Bush - Flyer distributed at GOP Headquarter in Gainsville Let's see how the slime balls respond to this one... :mischief

What to expect if shrub gets re-elected: Massive Suicides :o Massive emigration to Canada :o Bush will declare himself Ceasar :plain Just joking. I think it will be 4 more years of the same crap. Lies, distortion, manipulation, civil liberties assaults, civil rights bypassed... Well you know, everything this administration has been doing for the past 4. I don't think Bushies will be that stupid again to get into another war they know they can't win. But then again, you never know how stupid they can be, until they take you to that level.

Ann Coulter is a B****! Michael Moore is fat, but he is still a better person that that skeleton.

Pointless argument. Only time will tell.

I know most of you have already seen this pic, I just thought I would post it and remind some of the more self-righteous righties in this group that when Saddam was gassing his people, it was your main man Ronnie that was selling the stuff to him, sending your boy Rummy over to let good ol? Saddam not to worry about talk about sanctions, he was our boy. If I were Saddam, I would get this picture made into a t-shirt, and wear it into court every day. stories 508859[/snapback] International relations...dimplomacy....isn't this what all you liberals wanted to use in order to deal with Hussein? There you have it!!! thanks for ridiculizing yourself! 509308[/snapback] You don't negotiate with these kind of scumbag... But that doesn't mean we couldn't put more diplomatic pressure, more economic sanctions and let the UN do their job... That is what diplomacy is all about babe.

...it seems fair to infer you don't believe the removal of Saddam is worth it in terms of benefit for the Iraqi people, reduced threat to Israel, the Saudi's and Kuwait. That is a good point. Saddam was definetely a mad man. He deserved to be removed. I am questioning the way we did it. I am questioning the timing, the planning (or lack of). IMO we should have not acted in the "spur of the moment", specially since we were involved in another major operation trying to catch the Terrorists that killed Americans. I want to know why this administration, particularly Rumsfeld and Cheney, dismissed the warnings, counsel and suggestions by more than a dozen of experienced military men, not even counting those officials in the administration with great foreign policy experience. This Iraq war not only seemed rushed and totally missmanaged but we went in without a clear plan for getting out.

I am not exagerating anything, things are the way they are, no sugar coating. Whether you want to think that 900 American lives are "far below the levels" expected... One lost life is one loss too many. 508519[/snapback] What were the casualty estimates for Gulf War v1.0? One life lost is too many eh? Suppose we could save hundreds of thousands in Darfur with some sort of intervention, but it would cost a company of marines? Are you unwilling to spend American blood to benefit others? 508537[/snapback] For the right cause, I'd be willing to die myself. But I would never say that 900 lives are not worth worrying. It is easy for one to speculate with other people's sons, daughters, husbands and wives. To them their loss is great. Don't try to pin it on me to make it appear I don't care about the Iraquies, that is just disingenous...

I think you exagerate the problems we're having. Losses so far are below the levels that senator Kerry was apparently willing accept when he voted to authorize. Do you forget that people were saying there'd be several thousand casualties just to accomplish the defeat of Saddam's army? 508499[/snapback] I am not exagerating anything, things are the way they are, no sugar coating. Whether you want to think that 900 American lives are "far below the levels" expected... One lost life is one loss too many. I am not going to discuss the motives and the blunders that put us into this situation again. It is pointless. This war should have never happened.

Inability to accept and understand past failures invites future failure IMO. 508300[/snapback] It seems that Mr. Bush doesn't get your wisdom.