look instead of flipping out and calling beinfest brainless...why dont you try and think out the situation, step in his shoes

 

but first, let me say that many people who are flipping out now were ones that, last year, called beinfest a god and stated that they "would never question one of beinfest moves" and the acolades of how he is such a great GM just kept coming in. I, for one, do think beinfest is a good GM and this move would not disprove that.

 

a GM should be concerend of two things.....winning now, and maintaining the future.

 

conine has come on of late and is finally hitting. The beinfest must be banking on conine to follow his historical stats as a good second half hitter and contribute much more to this offense than he did in the first half...thus, conine's production will replace choi.

 

loduca, whether or not he is not as good in the second half as in the first is an absolute upgrade over redmond, no question. so the offense there improves.

 

now, all enc has to do is atleast match conines numbers up to his point and you can see that this is an offensive upgrade. the only things that have to happen for this to be an upgade is

 

1. enc matches conines numbers up to this point for the rest of the year (something that he most likely will do and far excede

 

2. conine has to follow his second half trend

 

bam, there is your upgrade....oh yeah, by the way, GUILLERMO f***ING MOTA is now your set up man...the bullpen is now formidable...yes FORMIDABLE as in our starters are now pitching a 7 inning game.....which was last years blue print

 

no lefty power you say?? well, where the hell was that lefty power last year?? thats right, it didnt exist and we have a ring to show for it.

 

conine can play 1st next year while stokes gets more seasoning in the minors so there is no hole....and ramp suggested that willingham can play 1st...something, i'm sure, is a very real possibility and something that beinfest as considered.

 

Penny was gone at the end of the year and we dont need him to make the playoffs if beckett stays healthy....the dude was wearing down and is out of shape, after starting 7-2 or whatever...he has pitched pretty poorly.

 

now we can focus the hampton money on pavano....and know that we have willis, beckett and AJ for a while...so we just need to find a fifth stater...so what that we dont have 5 aces anymore... NO ONE DOES!

 

as for this year, i think we can assume that beinfest is not done and that he will deal for a starter....and if not then maybe they'll call someone up, maybe they'll try a committee, who cares, with four starters that can shut the door every game we dont need anything more than a slightly below average 5th starter, not in this division, not in this race....and as we all know, the 5th starter is irrelevent in the playoofs

 

enc would only have to play until hermidia is ready...and its not like enc is a wash...the man can do good things and plays great defense. I do not mind having him in my outfield.

 

we lose bill murphy? oh well, give to get.... but he isn't the best pitcher in our system....and we only need 1 starter since we already have the rights to beckett, AJ and willis for a few years....resign pavano to a 3-4 year deal and there is your starting rotation minus 1 starter. and we have prospects to fill that hole

 

look at this deal, it works, its an upgrade, beinfest is not an idiot

 

lets just see how this all works out

Good points.

 

Our weaknesses: outfield, bullpen, catching

Our surplus: starting pitching

 

ALL ADDRESSED. We just need a decent #5 starter and we're looking good.

i posted this b4 maybe it enlightens some of u

 

 

this whole mess isnt over. beinfest isnt stupid. we have had the luxury of 5 starters last year and 4 solid ones this year. he wouldnt trade away penny without knowing he could aquire a 5th starter to fill that hole.he has seen how wayne and bump havent worked out so he will not leave us without a 5th starter. should he aquire Lowe which i think he will or another solid starter(ishi) this trade is great.Penny was gone anyway at the end of the year and now we can keep pavs.just think....

Better bullpen + better catcher + another bat = Good trade!

You are saying that we only slightly get better offensively, and we are giving up a great young starter for it. You better get significantly better if you trade the most valuable commodity in baseball, young good power starting pitching. You do not trade young, starting pitching unless what you get in return is overwhelming. Also, there is no such thing as having surplus starting pitching. Also, you are assuming that we have four good starters now. I would not call Willis an ace. He is horribly inconsistent with below average stuff. If, and I don't think we will now, but if we make the playoffs Willis as a starter is a liability. I would rather have traded Penny for prospects. At least we get better somewhere.

 

And we will not get another starter. Teams have to give away the farm to get just mediocre starting pitching. That is why starting pitching is so valuable. We have no chance of landing Lowe or anything remotely close to that w/o trading beckett, burnett, pavano, or willis.

Great post, FishFan.

This is a horrible trade. We trade away Brad Penny, who is sitll young, and an even younger pitching prospect in Bill Murphey. As of now we don't have anyone to replace them either. In return we got the worst statistically right fielder, Juan E. (yea he has a good defense, but for the last few weeks everyone said we need a bat not a defender, so having him come back here is pointless). Then we get a decent catcher in LoDuca ( he's an all-star only because he always does a lot better in the first half of the season, well guess what it is now the second half and his numbers are bad. He is better than redmond, but if he follows his pattern of second half woes, he was not worth picking up, cause we will not have him next year.) And finally we get Mota, whom is very good pickup, but lets all get it striaght, he is a relief pitcher, his talent is no where near Penny. I mean Penny for the first month or two was our best pitcher. So as far as talent goes this is not only a bad deal for the fish, it does not help us very much, eventhough we gave up a lot. In fact I feel we are worst cause now we only have 3 pitchers that we can depend to be good and healthy the rest of the year.

 

Besides all that, I was not opposed to trading Penny, we could not resign him next year if we want to have a chance at keeping pavano so trading him was a good idea, but not for players that will only be here for one year. If the players we got are only going to be here for one year i would keep penny (the man beat the yankees twice in the WS). I would have traded Penny for top prospects to build for the future. And to prove we could have gotten top top prospects look what Tb just did, Zambrano to Mets for Scott Zamir, thier top lefty pitching prospects and one the better pitching prospects around. Penny has just as much talent as Zambrano.

 

This is a horrible trade, we don't improve from it that much, if at all even (it all depends if LoDuca for some reason starts to hit better in the second half), we don't build for the future, we trade players under 30 (with rising talent) for players over 30 who are "ok" at best and not going to get better.

 

Now after this trade we still need a bat, cause LoDuca does not help enough (assuming he keeps hitting like he is) and now we need a 5th starter. So from this trade we got bullpen help but now need starting pitcher help (No 5th starter and question mark on Beckett) and we still need hitting. In addition this trade hurt our already low amount of top prospects. This makes this a bad bad trade for the marlins organization not only this year but next year also.

 

:mad : :mad :

Weakens us all around for the second half. Offense, defense, pitching.

Weakens us all around for the second half. Offense, defense, pitching.

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Defense? Enc replaces the clumsy Cabs in right, Conine and Choi at first is a push, and Lo Duca has a better rate at throwing out base stealers than EITHER of our catcher. Come on now.

Cabrera's arm is wasted in left or first. He wasn't great in left field last year. Conine reads fly balls as well as any one in the league and would be wasted at first. Choi was no Derrek Lee, but he was very good. A catcher's main responsibility is handling the pitcher, not throwing guys out.

Cabrera's arm is wasted in left or first. He wasn't great in left field last year. Conine reads fly balls as well as any one in the league and would be wasted at first. Choi was no Derrek Lee, but he was very good. A catcher's main responsibility is handling the pitcher, not throwing guys out.

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He was better in left than he was in right this year. Conine isn't "wasted" because he's just as good at first as Conine.

Why isn't anyone pointing out that Walker might still be on the way? Wake up... The dealing isn't done yet... You guys are being critical of speculated trades...

Why isn't anyone pointing out that Walker might still be on the way? Wake up... The dealing isn't done yet... You guys are being critical of speculated trades...

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We'd be piling another terrible deal along with today's terrible trade.

 

Now that I think about it though, we might as well go after Walker, because this team is going to be terrible next year.

Why isn't anyone pointing out that Walker might still be on the way? Wake up... The dealing isn't done yet... You guys are being critical of speculated trades...

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We'd be piling another terrible deal along with today's terrible trade.

 

Now that I think about it though, we might as well go after Walker, because this team is going to be terrible next year.

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