November 10, 200421 yr The numbers lie. Seanez was among the worst relevers this year at allowing inherited runners to score. Of the 16 baserunners he inherited with the Marlins he allowed 10 to score. None of those count towards his ERA. Of the 3 baserunners he bequethed to other relievers none scored. Manzy retired all but 2 of the 7 baserunners inherited while seeing 7 of his 11 baserunners allowed to score by other relievers. When adjusted for average bullpen support Seanez contributed towards 5 runs per 9 IP and Manzy 6 runs per 9 IP. And that's not even considering the mop-up roles Manzy was asked to pitch in later in the year. Seanez is not good. He's in his late 30s and was in AAA much of the year. He's not a quality reliever and should not be counted on next year. He's in the same boat as Manzy.
November 10, 200421 yr Manzy was totally solid until he gave up that grand slam the night Lo Duca homered on the first pitch. After that Manzy was terrible, I think he probably let the grand slam he gave up really go to his head.
November 10, 200421 yr I say he should defintely compete for a pen job. He was solid for a big chunk of the year and can definitely be useful in a diminished role. He was being used as a setup man, and even a closer in that phillies series. If he earns it keep him
November 10, 200421 yr Once again, Manzy is a 36 year old joureyman for a reason. Seanez is a Major League pitcher. While you can argue on the whole inherited runners scored angle, you can't argue the fact that Seanez allowed opposing hitters a .212 average, while Manzy allowed a .292 average. How many times did we see Seanez come in and get key strikeouts? We're not asking for the guy to be our closer.... I'd like to see him back as a middle reliever, maybe a 7th inning guy. Manzy's magic is gone. All he's good for is entertainment, watching him beat himself.
November 10, 200421 yr Once again, Manzy is a 36 year old joureyman for a reason. 612338[/snapback] And Seanez isn't a journeyman? How can you ignore the fact that he's played for 8 different teams in 12 years? :blink: How many times did we see Seanez come in and get key strikeouts? 612338[/snapback] The same amount of times we saw him come in and give up a home run or big hit in late innings which cost us the game time after time.
November 11, 200421 yr The numbers lie. Seanez was among the worst relevers this year at allowing inherited runners to score. Of the 16 baserunners he inherited with the Marlins he allowed 10 to score. None of those count towards his ERA. Of the 3 baserunners he bequethed to other relievers none scored. Manzy retired all but 2 of the 7 baserunners inherited while seeing 7 of his 11 baserunners allowed to score by other relievers. When adjusted for average bullpen support Seanez contributed towards 5 runs per 9 IP and Manzy 6 runs per 9 IP. And that's not even considering the mop-up roles Manzy was asked to pitch in later in the year. Seanez is not good. He's in his late 30s and was in AAA much of the year. He's not a quality reliever and should not be counted on next year. He's in the same boat as Manzy. 612119[/snapback] Yeah, but Manzy got Sledge-hammered (sorry, horrible pun) in what I think amounts to just about the most deflating loss we had, and in hindsight, really, the beginning of the downward slide this team had. I know it counts for nothing, but if we win that game off of what would have been LoDuca's first hit/HR as a Marlin, we ride a big time high, but instead we get summarily trounced by the God-awful Expos for another two series...essentially eliminating us. I know the numbers support such and such, but Manzy was horrible, I mean, whenever he came into the game, I just expected that it was over. We all had fun with the "go, Manzy, go" comment, but the guy was cut (from the Reds of all teams) for a reason...
November 11, 200421 yr And has as Seanez. That's my point. He's not someone you can rely on. He's bounced between AAA and th majors the past few years. The guy has one pitch. He gave up leads by the dozens. He's simply not a good reliever. If you want to argue that Manzy is worse, that's fine, but it's not by much. Neither deserve a major league contract for next year. I do think that the team would benefit more from having Manzy in reserve at AAA than Seanez. The past two years I recall more journeyman long relievers being called up than journeyman 1-2 inning relievers. Also how was that loss deflating? Because it ruined the Derek Jeter of catcher's first game?! Did not the starting pitching get back on the track and go on a tear like two weeks later? Did we not make up 5 games in the wild card standings?
November 11, 200421 yr It was deflating because you could feel a new energy that had been lacking from this team for a while. LoDuca came up and hit that homerun to give us the lead on the first pitch he saw. The crowd went crazy and you could just feel like good things were coming.... But no, Manzy had something to say about that... I agree that this game was the most deflating and demoralizing of the season.
November 11, 200421 yr Compare their career numbers.. Seanez has just had more success.. Seanez had much better numbers for the Marlins than Manzy did. It's not even close. Josias Manzanillo Rudy Seanez
November 11, 200421 yr frankly, they both suck I mean, when Rudy couldnt find the zone he was absolutely awful.... that Cubs game comes to mind....
November 11, 200421 yr Also how was that loss deflating?612525[/snapback] OMG Is there nothing you won't say to try and validate one of your off the wall points? That was one of the most depressing moments in the history of this franchise. Not the week, not the season, I repeat, that night was one of the most painful and depressing losses in the history of this franchise. If you were there, and obviously you weren't, the pain felt by Marlins fans inside the stadium (and suspect hundreds of thousands more watching the game on tv or listening on the radio) was gut-wrenching, it was like someone reached in and tore the collective heart out of us all, and I suspect the team. Shame on you for minimizing it to further your jihad against Paul LoDuca.
November 11, 200421 yr frankly, they both suck I mean, when Rudy couldnt find the zone he was absolutely awful.... that Cubs game comes to mind.... 612601[/snapback] Is there any pitchers who are effective when they cant find the strike zone? For what he is, Seanez is extremely effective...he's not a setup man, but a solid middle reliever. After he went through his "the only pitch I know how to throw is the slider" faze and actually threw his fastball, he was very solid. The only reason I'd be concerned over bringing him back is his injury history...he's one pitch bad pitch away from calling it a career...
November 11, 200421 yr frankly, they both suck I mean, when Rudy couldnt find the zone he was absolutely awful.... that Cubs game comes to mind.... 612601[/snapback] Is there any pitchers who are effective when they cant find the strike zone? 612736[/snapback] I figured that was coming... :plain
November 11, 200421 yr Your love for LoDuca has turned your minds to mush. The season ended when Beckett went down to injury after injury after injury, not when Manzy's pitch halted LoDuca's mojo. Funny how many of you were convinced LoDuca's mojo was working the rest of the season, and only know blame Manzy for jinxing him. Almonds and pecans.
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