November 15, 200421 yr it started as move valuable but over time and the ignorace of sports writers it has become "Dood With Best Stats Award" and that is NOT kool.
November 16, 200421 yr Wow Babe Ruth won his 7th MVP award!!! Thats incredible considering he's been dead for at least 50 years. Bonds is a great player, but not the greatest, maybe even not top ten greatest. Remeber he's playing in an era of inflated stats and inflated players and for some reason can't avoid those accusations either. This award needs to go back to its roots and rotate it around, thats the reason Ruth didn't win the award year in and year out. As for most valuable to a team this award rarely goes to the actual most valuable. some exceptions include Larkin in 95 or gibson in 88, those players didn't have the prettiest stats, but were certainly the most valuable players to those teams.
November 16, 200421 yr Wow Babe Ruth won his 7th MVP award!!! Thats incredible considering he's been dead for at least 50 years. Bonds is a great player, but not the greatest, maybe even not top ten greatest. Remeber he's playing in an era of inflated stats and inflated players and for some reason can't avoid those accusations either. This award needs to go back to its roots and rotate it around, thats the reason Ruth didn't win the award year in and year out. As for most valuable to a team this award rarely goes to the actual most valuable. some exceptions include Larkin in 95 or gibson in 88, those players didn't have the prettiest stats, but were certainly the most valuable players to those teams. 615266[/snapback] Not top-ten greatest? :blink: WTF? Nostalgia is nice and all, but let's be honest, I'd take this year's Devil Rays over the 1927 Yankees if we're talking a time machine series. Babe Ruth and Co. never dreamed of facing a pitcher with the velocity of Dewane Brazelton or a lefty with the filthy-stuff of Scott Kazmir. The Babe would sit there and take three strikes from Kazmir, swing weakly at maybe the third one, and walk back to the dugout muttering about not being able to see the ball. Here's the thing, any player from this era is greater than any player from a past era. Hell, Andy Fox could be sent back to the '20s and be a HOF calibre player. And it's not just baseball. You think Bob Cousy could guard Allen Iverson? Shaq in the '70's? Scarier than now. Peter Forsberg, a healthy Pavel Bure, Ilya Kovalchuk. If they played in the 30's or 40's we'd be talking about them as the greatest ever. Athletes today are simply better prepared physically, nutritionally, and mentally to play. Scouting and stretching to excess isn't just for the coaches to have a piece of mind, it's for the players to better themselves. Sure, Babe Ruth dominated his time in a manner similar to or greater than what Barry is doing now, but Bonds is beyond question the greatest of all time. If he were stuck in a time machine and sent back to Ruth's era, he may hit 250 HR's (or one for every at bat he's given with a pitch to hit). And to say it's debateable that he's in the top-ten, I want you to name ten (with a convincing argument for each).
November 16, 200421 yr The goal of a team is to make the playoffs, and win a title. With Bonds, they don't make the playoffs. How valuable was he compared to Beltre, whose team did make the playoffs, this season? Using your logic.... The goal of a team is actually to win the World Series... Therefore, the MVP should have been given to a player on the Cardinals for the NL and a player on the Red Sox for the AL... Nice logic there, Bubba. And you're talking about missing the playoffs by one game. They were one lousy game behind the Astros, and 2 gams behind the Dodgers. Without Barry, they're not in the race until the last day of the season. The MVP award is given to a player who means the most to his team. You tell me anyone that affects a lineup more than Barry does. You take Bonds out of the Giants lineup and it's incredibly different. No other player affects his own team's lineup the way he does.
November 16, 200421 yr How Boring. I'm not longer paying attention to this award until this douche retires. :banghead
November 16, 200421 yr The goal of a team is to make the playoffs, and win a title. With Bonds, they don't make the playoffs. How valuable was he compared to Beltre, whose team did make the playoffs, this season? Using your logic.... The goal of a team is actually to win the World Series... Therefore, the MVP should have been given to a player on the Cardinals for the NL and a player on the Red Sox for the AL... Nice logic there, Bubba. That would be quite impossible, since the awards are counted after the regular season but before the playoffs :thumbup So no, that's not my logic at all. Follow semantics all the way through and you'll find where my mind is leading. Also, one could argue Bonds is actually the most detrimental player to his team in the league when they don't make the playoffs. Without Barry, that team wins 50 games maybe. The team is horrible. Barry being there, but not making the playoffs, in essence pushes back the return to prominence of the Giants after Barry retires. Once he is gone the Giants will have at least 4 years, likely more, of just really crappy teams. You can't build around one guy forever, because that one guy can't play forever. So instead of having a high pick, the Giants are stuck in the fringes of the 20's, lose their picks anyways by signing Omar Vizquel (man, was that dumb), and are basically dooming themselves to a horrible post-Barry existence. Enjoy the winning (or sort of winning) now, it won't be here for long.
November 16, 200421 yr Barry Bonds is THE greatest baseball player I have ever seen, my generation, I am not old enough to have seen, Mays, Ruth, Aaron etc, but the best I have ever witnessed is Barry Bonds and no one can name one guy in this generation that has been better
November 16, 200421 yr Juanky - Your Belen way of thinking is getting the best of you with your little "Follow semantics all the way through, yada yada yada" Anyways, to say the Giants are horrible without Barry Bonds is ridiculous. He is a huge catalyst, without a doubt. But don't underestimate the rest of the team (J.T Snow, Ray Durham, Marquis Grissom, Pedro Feliz, Jason Schmidt, Noah Lowry... Even guys like Brett Tomko, Jim Brower, Scott Eyre). They are a pretty decent team. We all know that one player does not win 40 games by himself.
November 16, 200421 yr It isn't a Belen way of thinking. My high school doesn't define who I am, thanks. It's my explanation for my logic. If you can't see it - well, tough. It isn't a bold declaration for ending world hunger or anything. Yeah, that's a solid team. Why didn't they make the playoffs then? We all know that one player does not win 40 games by himself. Then what's the argument for Barry being MVP again?
November 16, 200421 yr Come on man. Are you really this naive? To reiterate, they missed the playoffs by one game. The reason they missed it was due to the lack of a bullpen. As you know, a team can score all they want, but without a good bullpen, they're not going anywhere. Bonds wins the MVP because he changes that lineup. That doesn't mean the team sucks without him. They are just that much better with him.... Shall I draw a picture, or are you with me now?
November 16, 200421 yr one thing i want to add..Tswift said that the babe would not be able to hit off todays pitchers which i think is bull..when the babe played there were plenty of pitchers throwing major heat plus he also had to look for pitches that are no longer aloud to be thrown today like the spit ball and also the ball wasnt as tight as it is today so if to hit it out you had to get all of it and not to mention that the parks had way bigger dementions and high walls...remember the babe not only hit for power,he had 300. plus ave. a couple of times in his career...personaly i think he would Rip brazelton and kazmir...
November 16, 200421 yr one thing i want to add..Tswift said that the babe would not be able to hit off todays pitchers which i think is bull..when the babe played there were plenty of pitchers throwing major heat plus he also had to look for pitches that are no longer aloud to be thrown today like the spit ball and also the ball wasnt as tight as it is today so if to hit it out you had to get all of it and not to mention that the parks had way bigger dementions and high walls...remember the babe not only hit for power,he had 300. plus ave. a couple of times in his career...personaly i think he would Rip brazelton and kazmir... 615653[/snapback] Walter "Big Train" Johnson was the hardest thrower of the era in discussion, and although no radar readings of his throwing exist, using the videos of him in action have left experts with the impression that he topped out at about 91-92 MPH. Brazelton and Kazmir just begin at that velocity. Plus, could you imagine Ruth trying to get his ungodly heavy bat (60 oz) around on that type of fastball? I think not. And for every spit-ball that's not allowed to be thrown, there's a split-finger fastball or cutter that can be.
November 16, 200421 yr Come on man. Are you really this naive? To reiterate, they missed the playoffs by one game. The reason they missed it was due to the lack of a bullpen. As you know, a team can score all they want, but without a good bullpen, they're not going anywhere. Bonds wins the MVP because he changes that lineup. That doesn't mean the team sucks without him. They are just that much better with him.... Shall I draw a picture, or are you with me now?? 615434[/snapback] Regardless of why they missed the playoffs, they did. I just don't think that a player whose team misses the playoffs is all that valuable. Hell, give Big Unit the CY Young on that grounds. But I guess the awards this year were inverted, Most Valuable Pitcher and Best Overall Hitter.
November 16, 200421 yr one thing i want to add..Tswift said that the babe would not be able to hit off todays pitchers which i think is bull..when the babe played there were plenty of pitchers throwing major heat plus he also had to look for pitches that are no longer aloud to be thrown today like the spit ball and also the ball wasnt as tight as it is today so if to hit it out you had to get all of it and not to mention that the parks had way bigger dementions and high walls...remember the babe not only hit for power,he had 300. plus ave. a couple of times in his career...personaly i think he would Rip brazelton and kazmir... 615653[/snapback] Walter "Big Train" Johnson was the hardest thrower of the era in discussion, and although no radar readings of his throwing exist, using the videos of him in action have left experts with the impression that he topped out at about 91-92 MPH. Brazelton and Kazmir just begin at that velocity. Plus, could you imagine Ruth trying to get his ungodly heavy bat (60 oz) around on that type of fastball? I think not. And for every spit-ball that's not allowed to be thrown, there's a split-finger fastball or cutter that can be. 615654[/snapback] Scott Kazmir is never going to throw 110 complete game shutouts in a season though :thumbup
November 16, 200421 yr Regardless of why they missed the playoffs, they did. I just don't think that a player whose team misses the playoffs is all that valuable. Hell, give Big Unit the CY Young on that grounds. But I guess the awards this year were inverted, Most Valuable Pitcher and Best Overall Hitter. 615868[/snapback] Damn, Juanky. I thought you were a bright kid with a good head on your shoulders.... I would somewhat see your point if the Giants finished last in their division. But they were in the playoff hunt until the very last day of the season. How can you look at Bonds' numbers and say that he doesn't deserve the MVP because his team didn't make the playoffs? You disappoint me more and more each day bro.
November 16, 200421 yr Because, frankly, I'm of the mentality that the most valuable player should be the one that allows his team to get the farthest. Since the awards are tabulated before the postseason, let only playoff players be eligible. Honestly, if you are that good, you can lead the team to the playoffs by yourself
November 16, 200421 yr the MvP award is tabulated before the post season because its for the player that had the best reg. season not who had the best reg. season and post season...that why they have post season MvP awards...
November 16, 200421 yr Because, frankly, I'm of the mentality that the most valuable player should be the one that allows his team to get the farthest. Since the awards are tabulated before the postseason, let only playoff players be eligible. Honestly, if you are that good, you can lead the team to the playoffs by yourself? 615881[/snapback] Did I just read that correctly? If a player is that good, they can lead a team to the playoffs by themselves? Are we talking about the same sport? How can he lead them to the playoffs when he walks all the time? All he can do then, is hope the guys behind him can drive him in. How about pitching? What if he goes 4-4 with 4 homeruns and 9 RBI's, but the pitching gives up 10 runs every day? Is it his fault then too??
November 16, 200421 yr And you're talking about missing the playoffs by one game. They were one lousy game behind the Astros 615303[/snapback] The fact they even allowed the Astros to catch them shows how much the choked.
November 16, 200421 yr The fact they even allowed the Astros to catch them shows how much the choked. 615889[/snapback] I guess you were out of the country during the playoff hunt. When a team wins 12 games in a row, you tip your cap to them. The Giants did well towards the end. But as I've said many times, the bullpen blew it a few too many times. That's why they didn't make the playoffs. Nothing Bonds can do about that.
November 18, 200421 yr Because, frankly, I'm of the mentality that the most valuable player should be the one that allows his team to get the farthest. Since the awards are tabulated before the postseason, let only playoff players be eligible. Honestly, if you are that good, you can lead the team to the playoffs by yourself? 615881[/snapback] Did I just read that correctly? If a player is that good, they can lead a team to the playoffs by themselves? Are we talking about the same sport? How can he lead them to the playoffs when he walks all the time? All he can do then, is hope the guys behind him can drive him in. How about pitching? What if he goes 4-4 with 4 homeruns and 9 RBI's, but the pitching gives up 10 runs every day? Is it his fault then too?? 615886[/snapback] Hey, Babe Ruth did it :whistle
November 18, 200421 yr the MvP award is tabulated before the post season because its for the player that had the best reg. season not who had the best reg. season and post season...that why they have post season MvP awards... 615884[/snapback] So by that right there i say Barry Bonds shouldnt have been the MVP. Adrian Beltre should of won the MVP.
November 18, 200421 yr the MvP award is tabulated before the post season because its for the player that had the best reg. season not who had the best reg. season and post season...that why they have post season MvP awards... 615884[/snapback] So by that right there i say Barry Bonds shouldnt have been the MVP. Adrian Beltre should of won the MVP. 616732[/snapback] the award was given to Bonds because he keeps having back to back great seasons and even though Beltre's numbers were better than Bonds the writers know what he would have done if he wasnt being walked in record numbers every year...i mean truthfully ask any Pitcher who they rather pitch to Bonds or beltre and the responce wont even be close...
November 18, 200421 yr the award was given to Bonds because he keeps having back to back great seasons 616895[/snapback] And here I was thinking the award was for 2004
November 18, 200421 yr the award was given to Bonds because he keeps having back to back great seasons 616895[/snapback] And here I was thinking the award was for 2004 616898[/snapback] i was waiting for you to say something like that....
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