December 8, 200421 yr Rumsfeld was in the region yesterday at the ceremony that swore in Hamid Karzai as the first elected leader of Afghanistan. Today, however, he faced tough questions about the war in Iraq and the lack of material support that the U.S. army has been supplying our troops fighting in the war-torn country. Here is an article from MSNBC.com: CAMP BUEHRING, Kuwait - After delivering a pep talk designed to energize troops preparing to head for Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld got a little ?talking to? himself from disgruntled soldiers. In his prepared remarks, Rumsfeld urged the troops ? mostly National Guard and Reserve soldiers ? to discount critics of the war in Iraq and to help ?win the test of wills? with the insurgents. Some of soldiers, however, had criticisms of their own ? not of the war itself but of how it is being fought. Army Spc. Thomas Wilson, for example, of the 278th Regimental Combat Team that is comprised mainly of citizen soldiers of the Tennessee Army National Guard, asked Rumsfeld in a question-and-answer session why vehicle armor is still in short supply, nearly three years after the war in Iraq. ?Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?? Wilson asked. A big cheer arose from the approximately 2,300 soldiers in the cavernous hangar who assembled to see and hear the secretary of defense. Rumsfeld hesitated and asked Wilson to repeat his question. ?We do not have proper armored vehicles to carry with us north,? Wilson said after asking again. Rumsfeld replied that, ?You go to war with the Army you have,? not the one you might want, and that any rate the Army was pushing manufacturers of vehicle armor to produce it as fast as humanly possible. And, the defense chief added, armor is not always a savior in the kind of combat U.S. troops face in Iraq, where the insurgents? weapon of choice is the roadside bomb, or improvised explosive device that has killed and maimed hundreds, if not thousands, of American troops since the summer of 2003. ?You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up,? Rumsfeld said. Asked later about Wilson?s complaint, the deputy commanding general of U.S. forces in Kuwait, Maj. Gen. Gary Speer, said in an interview that as far as he knows, every vehicle that is deploying to Iraq from Camp Buehring in Kuwait has at least ?Level 3? armor. That means it at least has locally fabricated armor for its side panels, but not necessarily bulletproof windows or protection against explosions that penetrate the floorboard. Speer said he was not aware that soldiers were searching landfills for scrap mental and used bulletproof glass. Priority for best equipment During the question-and-answer session, another soldier complained that active-duty Army units sometimes get priority over the National Guard and Reserve units for the best equipment in Iraq. ?There?s no way I can prove it, but I am told the Army is breaking its neck to see that there is not? discrimination against the National Guard and Reserve in terms of providing equipment, Rumsfeld said. Yet another soldier asked, without putting it to Rumsfeld as a direct criticism, how much longer the Army will continue using its ?stop loss? power to prevent soldiers from leaving the service who are otherwise eligible to retire or quit. Rumsfeld said that this condition was simply a fact of life for soldiers at time of war. ?It?s basically a sound principle, it?s nothing new, it?s been well understood? by soldiers, he said. ?My guess is it will continue to be used as little as possible, but that it will continue to be used.? In his opening remarks, Rumsfeld stressed that soldiers who are heading to Iraq should not believe those who say the insurgents cannot be defeated or who otherwise doubt the will of the military to win. ?They say we can?t prevail. I see that violence and say we must win,? Rumsfeld said.
December 8, 200421 yr do you ever post anything not iraq related? I rarely see your posts in threads that include intellectual discourse or ideological debate
December 8, 200421 yr Author do you ever post anything not iraq related? I rarely see your posts in threads that include intellectual discourse or ideological debate 629825[/snapback] I just enjoy showing the foolishness of our current administration, and how they refuse to admit that they have ever done anything wrong. For the record, I do involve myself in other discussions. However, I rarely see people listening to what I have to say.
December 8, 200421 yr do you ever post anything not iraq related? I rarely see your posts in threads that include intellectual discourse or ideological debate 629825[/snapback] I just enjoy showing the foolishness of our current administration, and how they refuse to admit that they have ever done anything wrong. For the record, I do involve myself in other discussions. However, I rarely see people listening to what I have to say. 629828[/snapback] Tell me something that isnt just blatant bush bashing and ill listen. For example I personally know that the amdin. has made plenty of mistakes. I however, rather argue based on what they should do now rather than pounding in what has already been done.
December 8, 200421 yr Author do you ever post anything not iraq related? I rarely see your posts in threads that include intellectual discourse or ideological debate 629825[/snapback] I just enjoy showing the foolishness of our current administration, and how they refuse to admit that they have ever done anything wrong. For the record, I do involve myself in other discussions. However, I rarely see people listening to what I have to say. 629828[/snapback] Tell me something that isnt just blatant bush bashing and ill listen. For example I personally know that the amdin. has made plenty of mistakes. I however, rather argue based on what they should do now rather than pounding in what has already been done. 629833[/snapback] Fine, here you go. If this administration is truly committed to this war, then they should at least give the soldiers the equipment and supplies that they need in order to fight it. I shouldn't be hearing so much about the lack of material resources available to these soldiers. Rumsfeld's only response was that you "fight with the Army you have". What is that supposed to mean? We have the most powerful army on the face of the earth, and we're having trouble getting supplies and protection to the area that we need them most. Too many soldiers are writing home asking their parents to mail them body armor bought from the U.S, since there isn't enough to go around. What is that all about?
December 8, 200421 yr do you ever post anything not iraq related? I rarely see your posts in threads that include intellectual discourse or ideological debate 629825[/snapback] I just enjoy showing the foolishness of our current administration, and how they refuse to admit that they have ever done anything wrong. For the record, I do involve myself in other discussions. However, I rarely see people listening to what I have to say. 629828[/snapback] Tell me something that isnt just blatant bush bashing and ill listen. For example I personally know that the amdin. has made plenty of mistakes. I however, rather argue based on what they should do now rather than pounding in what has already been done. 629833[/snapback] Fine, here you go. If this administration is truly committed to this war, then they should at least give the soldiers the equipment and supplies that they need in order to fight it. I shouldn't be hearing so much about the lack of material resources available to these soldiers. Rumsfeld's only response was that you "fight with the Army you have". What is that supposed to mean? We have the most powerful army on the face of the earth, and we're having trouble getting supplies and protection to the area that we need them most. Too many soldiers are writing home asking their parents to mail them body armor bought from the U.S, since there isn't enough to go around. What is that all about? 629843[/snapback] The executive isnt the one that decides those things. Congress is majority republicans so blame the republicans there if you want (and also democrats), but it is up to congress to propose and pass bills to give troops more armor and such
December 8, 200421 yr Author do you ever post anything not iraq related? I rarely see your posts in threads that include intellectual discourse or ideological debate 629825[/snapback] I just enjoy showing the foolishness of our current administration, and how they refuse to admit that they have ever done anything wrong. For the record, I do involve myself in other discussions. However, I rarely see people listening to what I have to say. 629828[/snapback] Tell me something that isnt just blatant bush bashing and ill listen. For example I personally know that the amdin. has made plenty of mistakes. I however, rather argue based on what they should do now rather than pounding in what has already been done. 629833[/snapback] Fine, here you go. If this administration is truly committed to this war, then they should at least give the soldiers the equipment and supplies that they need in order to fight it. I shouldn't be hearing so much about the lack of material resources available to these soldiers. Rumsfeld's only response was that you "fight with the Army you have". What is that supposed to mean? We have the most powerful army on the face of the earth, and we're having trouble getting supplies and protection to the area that we need them most. Too many soldiers are writing home asking their parents to mail them body armor bought from the U.S, since there isn't enough to go around. What is that all about? 629843[/snapback] The executive isnt the one that decides those things. Congress is majority republicans so blame the republicans there if you want (and also democrats), but it is up to congress to propose and pass bills to give troops more armor and such 629862[/snapback] True, but then why aren't Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld pushing for Congress to give the troops what they need?
December 8, 200421 yr Author True, but then why aren't Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld pushing for Congress to give the troops what they need? The stuff is ordered. I'm sure if you'll loan W with your Mk 1 Mod 0 govt issue magic wand that will make things instantly appear. The bad 5 ton truck issue dates back to the early Clinton days BTW. That one doesn't get a lot of press though...I wonder why? 630057[/snapback] How about because we weren't involved in full-scale wars against entire countries with no noticeable support.
December 8, 200421 yr True, but then why aren't Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld pushing for Congress to give the troops what they need? The stuff is ordered. I'm sure if you'll loan W with your Mk 1 Mod 0 govt issue magic wand that will make things instantly appear. The bad 5 ton truck issue dates back to the early Clinton days BTW. That one doesn't get a lot of press though...I wonder why? 630057[/snapback] How about because we weren't involved in full-scale wars against entire countries with no noticeable support. 630154[/snapback] Its Congress, no its Clinton, no its the troops. It amazes me how people can consider someone a strong decisive leader yet at the same time activley spread the blame. Hell I can be decisive too...Ill just blame the other guy.
December 9, 200421 yr True, but then why aren't Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld pushing for Congress to give the troops what they need? The stuff is ordered. I'm sure if you'll loan W with your Mk 1 Mod 0 govt issue magic wand that will make things instantly appear. The bad 5 ton truck issue dates back to the early Clinton days BTW. That one doesn't get a lot of press though...I wonder why? 630057[/snapback] How about because we weren't involved in full-scale wars against entire countries with no noticeable support. 630154[/snapback] Its Congress, no its Clinton, no its the troops. It amazes me how people can consider someone a strong decisive leader yet at the same time activley spread the blame. Hell I can be decisive too...Ill just blame the other guy. 630182[/snapback] Blaming others is what liberals like to do. Lets just use logic and fact. Congress is the body of governemtn that appropriates funds, which includes funding for military equipment. Period.
December 9, 200421 yr True, but then why aren't Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld pushing for Congress to give the troops what they need? The stuff is ordered. I'm sure if you'll loan W with your Mk 1 Mod 0 govt issue magic wand that will make things instantly appear. The bad 5 ton truck issue dates back to the early Clinton days BTW. That one doesn't get a lot of press though...I wonder why? 630057[/snapback] How about because we weren't involved in full-scale wars against entire countries with no noticeable support. 630154[/snapback] Its Congress, no its Clinton, no its the troops. It amazes me how people can consider someone a strong decisive leader yet at the same time activley spread the blame. Hell I can be decisive too...Ill just blame the other guy. 630182[/snapback] Blaming others is what liberals like to do. Lets just use logic and fact. Congress is the body of governemtn that appropriates funds, which includes funding for military equipment. Period. 630473[/snapback] Yes..we like to blame others. Its what we do. Thats how we operate. Because conservatives always take the blame and are willing to admit their mistakes.
December 9, 200421 yr do you ever post anything not iraq related? I rarely see your posts in threads that include intellectual discourse or ideological debate 629825[/snapback] I just enjoy showing the foolishness of our current administration, and how they refuse to admit that they have ever done anything wrong. For the record, I do involve myself in other discussions. However, I rarely see people listening to what I have to say. 629828[/snapback] Tell me something that isnt just blatant bush bashing and ill listen. For example I personally know that the amdin. has made plenty of mistakes. I however, rather argue based on what they should do now rather than pounding in what has already been done. 629833[/snapback] This isn't Bush bashing, this is the troops owning Scumfeld. I'm a huge Bush supporter and I voted for him, however Scumsfeld is a total idiot and I despise him, i'm glad he got owned by the troops. I saw some of the clips from the Q&A session on CNN and Rumsfeld got his ass handed to him.
December 9, 200421 yr RUMSFELD SET UP; REPORTER PLANTED QUESTIONS WITH SOLIDER Thu Dec 09 2004 11:49:38 ET Chattanooga Times Free Press reporter Edward Lee Pitts is embedded with the 278th Regimental Combat Team, now in Kuwait preparing to enter Iraq, and is filing articles for his newspaper. Pitts claims in a purported email that he coached soldiers to ask Defense Secretary Rumsfeld questions! When reached Thursday morning, various Chattanooga Times Free Press staffers offered 'no comment' on the development. From: EDWARD LEE PITTS, MILITARY AFFAIRS Sent: Wednesday, December 8, 2004 4:44 PM To: Staffers Subject: RE: Way to go I just had one of my best days as a journalist today. As luck would have it, our journey North was delayed just long enough see I could attend a visit today here by Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. I was told yesterday that only soldiers could ask questions so I brought two of them along with me as my escorts. Before hand we worked on questions to ask Rumsfeld about the appalling lack of armor their vehicles going into combat have. While waiting for the VIP, I went and found the Sgt. in charge of the microphone for the question and answer session and made sure he knew to get my guys out of the crowd. So during the Q&A session, one of my guys was the second person called on. When he asked Rumsfeld why after two years here soldiers are still having to dig through trash bins to find rusted scrap metal and cracked ballistic windows for their Humvees, the place erupted in cheers so loud that Rumsfeld had to ask the guy to repeat his question. Then Rumsfeld answered something about it being "not a lack of desire or money but a logistics/physics problem." He said he recently saw about 8 of the special up-armored Humvees guarding Washington, DC, and he promised that they would no longer be used for that and that he would send them over here. Then he asked a three star general standing behind him, the commander of all ground forces here, to also answer the question. The general said it was a problem he is working on. The great part was that after the event was over the throng of national media following Rumsfeld- The New York Times, AP, all the major networks -- swarmed to the two soldiers I brought from the unit I am embedded with. Out of the 1,000 or so troops at the event there were only a handful of guys from my unit b/c the rest were too busy prepping for our trip north. The national media asked if they were the guys with the armor problem and then stuck cameras in their faces. The NY Times reporter asked me to email him the stories I had already done on it, but I said he could search for them himself on the Internet and he better not steal any of my lines. I have been trying to get this story out for weeks- as soon as I foud out I would be on an unarmored truck- and my paper published two stories on it. But it felt good to hand it off to the national press. I believe lives are at stake with so many soldiers going across the border riding with scrap metal as protection. It may be to late for the unit I am with, but hopefully not for those who come after. The press officer in charge of my regiment, the 278th, came up to me afterwords and asked if my story would be positive. I replied that I would write the truth. Then I pointed at the horde of national media pointing cameras and mics at the 278th guys and said he had bigger problems on his hands than the Chattanooga Times Free Press. This is what this job is all about - people need to know. The solider who asked the question said he felt good b/c he took his complaints to the top. When he got back to his unit most of the guys patted him on the back but a few of the officers were upset b/c they thought it would make them look bad. From what I understand this is all over the news back home.
December 10, 200421 yr CNN.com actually has the story. When you hear the audio of the story, the troops basically erupt in applause when the question's asked, so it's not as if some of them weren't thinking it. Either way who cares. It's just a question. The troops are not deserting.
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