December 12, 200421 yr Author OK, would you expect someone in Florida City with season tickets to make it to every game at PPS on time if he left after work? How about someone in Stuart? That is what you will expect with Las vegas. Here is a Nevada County Map: http://sos.state.nv.us/county/countymap.htm Here is the Clark County (Las Vegas) Census Stats: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/32/32003.html Only 2,241,154 people in the entire state according to 2003 Census estimates! Dade County had 2,253,362 in 2000! Last time I check they were growing as well and you still had Broward and Palm Beach there to add some more people.
December 12, 200421 yr Wow so there are 2+ million people live in Dade county, within what 30 miles of the stadium at the most and all they can muster is 20K in attendance a night? Isn't that kind of sad? Wouldn't that sort of send the message that maybe people don't want to show up when only 1% of the population of Dade county, at the most, shows up every night. If I was you I wouldn't be bragging about how only 1% of the Dade county population shows up for a Marlins game every night, and by choice its not like they can't fit more people in. Also, there is more money in Clark county, not much of a shock. But the population of Clark county is 71% white and about 35% white male, the target audience of the MLB. In Miami Dade the percentages are lower. Make of that what you will.
December 12, 200421 yr Author All I have to say is it is TV market #51, the state has less people in it than Dade County alone, and MLB's biggest sin is gambling while Las Vegas is the gambling capital of the world.
December 12, 200421 yr Author BTW, the Marlins also are the "home" team for Orlando and Jacksonville which are major Florida markets. Orlando is #20.....does MLB want to lose it? Orlando (I just went over Thanksgiving) was full of Marlins stuff. I haven't seen that much Marlins on a visit up there since 1993-4.
December 12, 200421 yr If MLB didn't want Loria to move they wouldn't have let them have the talks. Why would they let the Marlins investigate their possiblities only to say later on "Oh on second thought... no, don't go back there." And Orlando and what not would become TB territory or go back to Bravos land. Everyone up here at UF that I have met and lived in the Orlando area and northwards are Braves fans, or at least like the Bravos. The question is does Loria keep want to keep losing money like he is? Is he lying and not losing money? Maybe, but I doubt he is making a lot of money if he is. He has a horrible deal with the Pro, and if he thinks he can make money in Vegas than that is his perogative. It is his money and his team he can do with them what he wants within the restraints given to him. There is too much smoke to not believe there is no fire somewhere. In the end he'll probably get the stadium he wants and have what he finally wants, a MLB team and a stadium in the US border. But for now everyday that passes allows the potential of a move slowly grow. If there is no stadium deal at the end of this year it won't happen and then I think you will really see things happen. Because then we will be 2 years removed of the latest championship and been through two world serieses and no stadium and that means it probably never will happen. If baseball was so concerned about losing the market why wouldn't MLB just step forward and say they will cover the over runs if they are so worried about losing the S. Florida market?
December 12, 200421 yr Author PhishPhan, have you not payed attention to EVERY ballpark negotiation since the 50's? They almost all involve these elements. This is normal, but the timing was strange in this situation. The strangest by far was the Giants debacle in 1992 which involved Tropicana Field and a Judge.
December 12, 200421 yr PhishPhan, have you not payed attention to EVERY ballpark negotiation since the 50's? They almost all involve these elements. This is normal, but the timing was strange in this situation. The strangest by far was the Giants debacle in 1992 which involved Tropicana Field and a Judge. 632969[/snapback] Seattle, SD, etc. looked into moving?
December 12, 200421 yr Author PhishPhan, have you not payed attention to EVERY ballpark negotiation since the 50's? They almost all involve these elements. This is normal, but the timing was strange in this situation. The strangest by far was the Giants debacle in 1992 which involved Tropicana Field and a Judge. 632969[/snapback] Seattle, SD, etc. looked into moving? 632972[/snapback] YES! San Diego's voters quelled it by approving a bond right after the Pads appeared in the 1998 World Series. Seattle was ready to pick up and move out of the KingDome to Virginia or Tampa when Lou and his gang came in and started winning. Seattle came around and now you have Safeco.
December 12, 200421 yr Author Anybody the Astros-to-Virginia rumors? Virginia even approved a state tax financing plan.
December 12, 200421 yr But I am asking did these teams ever send out people to sit down and talk to the towns, not rumors.
December 12, 200421 yr Author And San Fran? 632979[/snapback] Moved to Tampa in 1992, Court Ordered them moved back to San Fran, new ownership (100+ shareholders in a group) bought the team, struck deal with City for land and Candlestick lease, and financed SBC. Amongst the owners are Cox Communications (KTVU-2), Susquehanna Radio (680 KNBR), and numerous Bay area businessmen.
December 12, 200421 yr Author But I am asking did these teams ever send out people to sit down and talk to the towns, not rumors. 632981[/snapback] San Fran moved to the dome and even had Welcome to Tampa Bay billboards go up.
December 12, 200421 yr What are you talking about they moved to Tampa Bay? There was no Tampa Bay team until the Devil Rays.
December 12, 200421 yr Author What are you talking about they moved to Tampa Bay? There was no Tampa Bay team until the Devil Rays. 632989[/snapback] The Giants were ready to play in Tampa for 1992 but were ordered back by a court. They were the Tampa Bay Giants for about a month.
December 12, 200421 yr And they went back and played in Candle Stick for 7 years, the Marlins don't have 7 more years.
December 12, 200421 yr Author http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...SPGCB72FBR1.DTL NL owners rejected the deal after the court order.
December 12, 200421 yr Author And they went back and played in Candle Stick for 7 years, the Marlins don't have 7 more years. 632991[/snapback] Giants changed ownership and ballpark proposals about faced because of it. The Marlins ownership is not threatening to change unless they... 1) decide to bring in a partner or sell as is 2) try to move and MLB tells them no.
December 12, 200421 yr Right and the Marlins would not be switching owners here. This would be Loria himself taking the team. And it still took SF 7 years to get a new stadium after that. Loria hasn't done that yet, so what are we looking at 10 years? The Marlins will be kicked out of the Pro by then.
December 12, 200421 yr Author Right and the Marlins would not be switching owners here. This would be Loria himself taking the team. And it still took SF 7 years to get a new stadium after that. Loria hasn't done that yet, so what are we looking at 10 years? The Marlins will be kicked out of the Pro by then. 632996[/snapback] Giants were trying for San Jose in 1992, the new ownership moved to Downtown San Fran. That would be like them going from Dade County to Palm Beach overnight. It won't happen. Why are you bringing up things that don't apply? You asked for others and I provided. Here are some more: Pittsburgh (Tampa Pirates was popular for a while) Milwaukee (Orlando Brewers was popular until Miller Park opened) Texas (Arizona Rangers?) Anaheim (Colorado Angels?) Toronto (Tampa Bay Blue Jays... :lol ) Baltimore (Miami Orioles...O's were sold in bankruptcy court and Angelos was given a new deal along with the sale papers) Cleveland (Miami Indians? They even made a movie...might of heard of it...had Charley Sheen)
December 12, 200421 yr Giants attendance average 1989-1991 (3 years leading up to the rumors): 23,500 Similar number for Seattle. What I am trying to say is that other teams in the past who "threatend" to move had people in the stands, more than what the Marlins have averaged in their last three years by a long shot despite the world series win. So these teams had reason to stay, they still had fans showing up the marlins don't.
December 12, 200421 yr Giants attendance average 1989-1991 (3 years leading up to the rumors): 23,500 Similar number for Seattle.? What I am trying to say is that other teams in the past who "threatend" to move had people in the stands, more than what the Marlins have averaged in their last three years? by a long shot despite the world series win. So these teams had reason to stay, they still had fans showing up the marlins don't. 633013[/snapback] Dude we averaged 22K+ a night. Almost the same amount. :whistle
December 12, 200421 yr Giants attendance average 1989-1991 (3 years leading up to the rumors): 23,500 Similar number for Seattle. What I am trying to say is that other teams in the past who "threatend" to move had people in the stands, more than what the Marlins have averaged in their last three years by a long shot despite the world series win. So these teams had reason to stay, they still had fans showing up the marlins don't. 633013[/snapback] Dude we averaged 22K+ a night. Almost the same amount. :whistle 633019[/snapback] Last year I mean over the last 3 years. Over the last 3 years we have averaged 15,600 people. 2004:1,723,107 2003:1,303,214 2002:813,188 Do the math yourself. Also we had more fans show up in 1998, after the 1997 championship than we did last year even though the 1998 team lost more than 100 games.... ouch. Sounds like fan intrest here versus other places that threatend moves is much worse.
December 12, 200421 yr The 2002 year shouldn't be taken into account, any numbers attendance wise that should be considered are the chamopionship year and after, because the Marlins went through a Renaissance with the Miami fans.Your argument on lack of fans is useless, becuase you most consider the population of SF and the areas surrounding it. Face it PP, there are fans they are just no going to the park for obvious reasons. Look at the TV ratings they are through the roof. Build a stadium with a roof and the fans will show up. I remember a stat on the site about New York and Miami. About how for every certain amount of people in the city a certain amount go, it was a ratio. I can't remember who posted it but I remember that the ratios were very similar. Anyone have that stat?
December 12, 200421 yr 1% of poeple in Miami dade county went to a Marlins game on an average night last year, if you say eveyone in attendance was from Miami Dade, less otherwise. And the Giants and Mariners, etc. didn't win championships before they "threatend" to move so if anything you'd think the Marlins' attendance would be better.
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