Minimum wage

[Flying_Mollusk]

Senate leaders are debating the possible increase of the minimum wage while house leaders like Delay, are saying no way to it. Here is my question, lets say you have a 26 year old women whose husband has just left her(or husband works and she is a homemaker) and now has two kids to raise. Lets say she works at McDonalds doing the 40 hour week making minimum wage. A person who makes min wage makes $10,700 a year. Now how exactly is this women supposed to raise a family in this country on that yearly salary?

 

This isnt exactly the welfare crack whore people love to point to as the symbol of those who cant get by in this country. Its stuff like this that reminds me why I vote the way I do.

 

 

 

Coincedently, its been 8 years since Congress has raised the minimum wage, and theyve raised their own salaries 7 times by $28,500. God knows they need it.

[Dodge]

One thing I liked about John Kerry is he would have tried to be proactive in making the minimum wage $7.00/hr. I wish the Democrats made it easier for me to vote for them.

[Flying_Mollusk]

One thing I liked about John Kerry is he would have tried to be proactive in making the minimum wage $7.00/hr. I wish the Democrats made it easier for me to vote for them.

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What issue do you think directly affects the lives of more Americans and the families they raise? What democratic alternative is much worse in terms of that effect? Think about it in actual numbers and actual effect.

[GetFuzzy]

Does she even want that job? Welfare/AFDC sounds like a better deal.

[Flying_Mollusk]

Does she even want that job? Welfare/AFDC sounds like a better deal.

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welfare is considered a temporary program. if you dont have a job by a certain time, they boot you.

[Guest Fritz]

Raising minimum wage is stupid. Take an economics class.

[Flying_Mollusk]

Raising minimum wage is stupid. Take an economics class.

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Taken numerous. Economics 101 is like history of the world. You can get a survey but when it comes to the advanced stuff, economists dont always agree. And the transition from text to reality is not too seamless. David Card and Alan Krueger did a study that found that in controlled experiments, for example when New Jersey raised minimum wages but Pennsylvania did not, the effects of the increase on employment have been minimal.

 

But my point isnt of econ 101 saying min wage has a positive or negative effect. Im sure it isnt considered the best in terms of economics. Econ 101 also has bad things to say about social security, medicare, and medicaid. Taxes on businesses have the same exact effect as min wage. Regulatory intereference also causes jobs to be lost. Obligating companies to cover employees for healthcare is bad economically. But we cant do anything about that. Pure market economics is tough to have.

 

Mine is a question on the fiscal end. Can the family live off of that wage? If they cant, then whats the point of even having teh job?

[GetFuzzy]

Does she even want that job? Welfare/AFDC sounds like a better deal.

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welfare is considered a temporary program. if you dont have a job by a certain time, they boot you.

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If you can't get trained up for something better than minimum wage in that "certain time" (what is it, like 2 years?) then you're pretty pathetic. If you're THAT pathetic, then there's other institutional programs in place to deal with you.

[Lefty]

The poverty line for a 4 person family is something like 28,000 right?

 

I agree it's ludicrous to set an amount for minimum wage that doesn't help people live even at the lowest levels of comfort. It's like giving a thirsty man some bread.

 

I'm pretty sure we had an amendment in November on the ballots for South Florida that would set the minimum wage at 6.50

 

I could be wrong....

[GetFuzzy]

The problem with "welfare" is in many cases its an "all in" deal. Its not really designed to just give graduated assistance depending on need.

 

Some jobs simply may not be worth paying higher minimum wage, becuase their product/service becomes uncompetitive at that level and would just be exported. Workshop type places that hire mentally handicapped folks for simple assembly tasks and stuff they can handle come to mind. Price those workshops out of business and a lot of handicapped people will be living a lot less satisfying lives.

 

Need to look at ripple effects when doing something like this.

 

TANSTAAFL

[MVPosey]

The California minimum wage is 6.75 an hour, 8.50 in San Francisco.

[Lefty]

The problem with "welfare" is in many cases its an "all in" deal. Its not really designed to just give graduated assistance depending on need.

 

Some jobs simply may not be worth paying higher minimum wage, becuase their product/service becomes uncompetitive at that level and would just be exported. Workshop type places that hire mentally handicapped folks for simple assembly tasks and stuff they can handle come to mind. Price those workshops out of business and a lot of handicapped people will be living a lot less satisfying lives.

 

Need to look at ripple effects when doing something like this.

 

TANSTAAFL

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TINSTAAFL

[MarlinFan10]

Sure, we need to raise minimun simply since everything else has gone up in price. However, we will never be able to make it an income to live on. People need to understand they work towards a higher paying job instead of expecting to work for minimun wage their whole lives.

[Shaq-Man]

i think they ought to raise the federal minimum wage a bit to keep it up with inflation.

 

that said, i'm supremely annoyed that florida has its own increased minimum wage now. ugh, that's going to affect all sorts of businesses, whether they hire minimum wage employees or not.

[PhxPhin]

exactly .. it should go up a touch .. but not much

 

I wouldn't mind seeing the min wage tied into a blend of indicators like the cpi or ppi

 

however, I don't think the min wage should necessarily be a livable wage

 

many taking those level jobs aren't independent and if you can't advance your career than that is your problem

 

don't be an f'up and you won't have any issues

 

I have friends who worked in retail/fast food in HS and never left

 

they are doing well for themselves because they worked hard within thier industry, developed the skill set the industry demands and moved up the ladder

 

you can make $40-$60k in fast food if you're professional and dedicated

 

as for your scenario, I think people need to be responsible and not have kids they can't support ... if the dual family could support them then the burden is on the father for child support (which is enforced to the extreme if the woman is dedicated enough to jump through all the hoops)

 

meanwhile there are strong gov't programs out there designed to help such scenarios, be it heating/food/shelter/day care programs ... these aren't traditional welfare, but mainly a supplement to low wage earners

[Das Texan]

and yet nobody has a comment on congress raising their salary.

 

 

 

again, like they need it, i wouldnt mind voting myself a raise.

[PhxPhin]

because it's irrelevant

 

congressman voting to give themselves a raise is a completely different subject and not material to the setting of the federal min wage

 

as part of the whole arguement it's there, kind of a "prices and wages have generally increased across the board in the past 8 years, in fact congress has received a raise 7 times. Obviously they feel it's important to adjust the income for themselves. Shouldn't the minimum wage be increased to help compensate for the current environment?"

 

but in and of it's self, it doesn't matter if congress gives themselves a raise as compared to the minimum wage .. it's an insignificant point

[legacyofCangelosi]

I think minimum wage laws should be left to the states. But lets clarify a few points. First of all last i checked the poverty line for a 4 person family is around the 14,000 a year mark (could be wrong but this is irrelevant to my point). I believe minimum wage does need to be raised and assuming they want to doi t federally, I agree with Santorum's plan as opposed to Kennedy's. Adding a 2 dollar p/h increase over a 26 month span is still too much of an economic shock for small businesses. People will lose their jobs or their businesses. Thats not even a question. Santorum's plan to raise minimum wage is an increment of about a 1.25 p/h over 18 months. Shorter time frame, less money. People will still lose their jobs, but the change will be less drastic and may save some jobs. The bankruptcy legislation is also key to this, as the wage increase will be carried in the same bill. Make it harder for people to declare bankruptcy but give them the money so they will be able to afford daily life. (By the most people are not on miminum wage, in fact the problem with raising it, is that the few employees on miminum wage need to get paid more, so ur skilled or higher paid workers also need raises, and small businesses cannot afford it. So they dump the some unskilled workers to afford the raises. So 50% of the miminum wage workers will now be making 0 an hour rather than 5.25.

[GetFuzzy]

TINSTAAFL

 

Heinlein used the word word "ain't" in The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress when the acronym was coined.

 

I'm a purist, I'm going to stick with the original TANSTAAFL

[Das Texan]

because it's irrelevant

 

congressman voting to give themselves a raise is a completely different subject and not material to the setting of the federal min wage

 

as part of the whole arguement it's there, kind of a "prices and wages have generally increased across the board in the past 8 years, in fact congress has received a raise 7 times. Obviously they feel it's important to adjust the income for themselves. Shouldn't the minimum wage be increased to help compensate for the current environment?"

 

but in and of it's self, it doesn't matter if congress gives themselves a raise as compared to the minimum wage .. it's an insignificant point

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congress ultimately votes on giving those making minimum wage a raise.

 

 

so they feel that the taxpayers can foot the bill for their higher wages yet they dont give those that pay their salaries a raise.

 

 

its a screwy situation. no matter how you cut it.

 

 

if the lowest of the low that could actually use the raise cant get a raise then why should congress when they sure as hell dont need the raise.

 

its about being fiscally intelligent. but nobody has the balls to do this.

[MarlinFan10]

How can we attack Congress for giving themselves a raise. If I got to vote for how much money I make, I would always vote for the highest amount of possible. It's the logically thing to do, it's not evil.

[Shamrock]

The Florida minimum wage hike makes me at least 200 more dollars a year at Kappa Delta, which tremendously helps when you're paying your way through college. I think only when you exist on the financial margins can you truly gauge the value of such an adjustment. I may be wrong, but that 200 bucks is quite a lot to me.

[Dodge]

I hear exactly what you're saying, I'm also paying my way through and another 200 bucks a year would mean a TON to me.

[Shaq-Man]

i don't think anyone suggested that an extra dollar an hour was meaningless. of course extra money goes a long way. i'm sure an extra $20,000 would go a long way.

 

but as college students working menial jobs, do you think you deserve that extra $200?

 

i know when i was getting paid peanuts in college, i would've loved an extra $200.... but i sure as hell didn't deserve it for sitting around doing nothing in a computer lab, basically enjoying myself.

[Dodge]

Mommy and Daddy don't pay my way through. So yes, and extra $200 would make a HUGE difference.