The problem is that lo duca is better than an average catcher. Most importantly our young pitchers respect him. Redmond said himself that he couldnt play everyday. Let's assume we didnt pull off the trade. We wouldnt have a quality, proven major league talent at catcher, we wouldnt have a solid closer (unproven as mota may be hes been the best setup man the last few years). And enc as a 6th OFer is pretty decent. Choi may be good in the future, but we're a team thats trying to win now. Penny will be a free agent next season, and if we really want him back we can bid for him after this year. Theres also health concerns regarding penny.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

There wasn't any health concerns with Penny before he moved to the Dodgers. He was the most healthy of the Beckett-Burnett-Penny trio.

Choi was contributing. Just not enough for people to forget about his strikeouts and Lee's great defense and good bat.

Redmond's an average catcher, or slightly below-average catcher, and could have been complimented by Willingham to supply league-average offense and defense. LoDuca's slightly above-average offensively and below-average defensively. Nowhere near the Pudge-Piazza-Lopez class that disturbs the mean. We could have signed Benitez with the cash saved.

 

Talent wise, it wasn't a bad trade or a good trade. Financially, it was a terrible trade, with Encarnacion's contract and LoDuca due a huge raise. Worst of all, it didn't address our needs without exposing greater ones elsewhere. A better trade might have been to shore up the mediocre bullpen and terrible bench by picking up a long man and reserve 1B/OF. But whatever, it's over. We missed out supposedly to the hurricanes, and have thrown our lot in with LoDuca.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

There wasn't any health concerns with Penny before he moved to the Dodgers. He was the most healthy of the Beckett-Burnett-Penny trio.

Choi was contributing. Just not enough for people to forget about his strikeouts and Lee's great defense and good bat.

Redmond's an average catcher, or slightly below-average catcher, and could have been complimented by Willingham to supply league-average offense and defense. LoDuca's slightly above-average offensively and below-average defensively. Nowhere near the Pudge-Piazza-Lopez class that disturbs the mean. We could have signed Benitez with the cash saved.

 

Talent wise, it wasn't a bad trade or a good trade. Financially, it was a terrible trade, with Encarnacion's contract and LoDuca due a huge raise. Worst of all, it didn't address our needs without exposing greater ones elsewhere. A better trade might have been to shore up the mediocre bullpen and terrible bench by picking up a long man and reserve 1B/OF. But whatever, it's over. We missed out supposedly to the hurricanes, and have thrown our lot in with LoDuca.

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Again you cant look beyond what smacks you in the face. Beinfest and the FO were always concerned about Penny's health. In fact so was Henry's crew. All of these people saw penny as an injury waiting to happen based on how he threw and his weight. A player doesnt have to have a history of injury to arouse health concerns. Mechanics and conditioning is very important

:lol

They wanted Penny to control his weight. They also wanted Beckett to be forward with the training staff. You could see Penny's faults so you're more willing to believe it was a problem than Beckett or Burnett's.

I liked the trade and anyone who says they'd rather have Choi to Delgado is an idiot.

:lol

They wanted Penny to control his weight. They also wanted Beckett to be forward with the training staff. You could see Penny's faults so you're more willing to believe it was a problem than Beckett or Burnett's.

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Burnett and Beckett were untradeable due to injury history. Penny was an injury WAITING TO HAPPEN, so they wanted to move him before he did get injured. Had he gotten that nerve injury with us, we would have been screwed b/c he would have been totally untradeable. Unless he wins 15-20 games this year and has an ERA under 3.50 the trade was totally good.

I liked the trade and anyone who says they'd rather have Choi to Delgado is an idiot.

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I don't think anyone said that.

Now Beckett and Burnett are untradable?

 

What happens if Burnett injuries himself again this season, will he only get minor league contract offers?

 

They all had value. Very high value considering the amount of contending teams without strong starting pitching last year. Beinfest and Loria thought the team could go without one of its stud starters. They chose to get rid of Penny. The fact that Pavano left, and the other two have more serious injury concerns, reflects badly on their judgement. You can't blame for not suspecting Pavano might leave, but you can for the lack of starting pitching depth. A key component of the team that didn't right itself until the last week of August and couldn't sustain it after the hurricanes.

Now Beckett and Burnett are untradable?

 

What happens if Burnett injuries himself again this season, will he only get minor league contract offers?

 

They all had value. Very high value considering the amount of contending teams without strong starting pitching last year. Beinfest and Loria thought the team could go without one of its stud starters. They chose to get rid of Penny. The fact that Pavano left, and the other two have more serious injury concerns, reflects badly on their judgement. You can't blame for not suspecting Pavano might leave, but you can for the lack of starting pitching depth. A key component of the team that didn't right itself until the last week of August and couldn't sustain it after the hurricanes.

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When did the trade occur? Last year at the deadline. No one is talking about now. At the tarde deadline they chose the pitcher of the three they cosnidered to be hurt the team less if he went but that had the msot value. We werent going to trade beckett, and burnett coming off tommy john surgery did not command the tarde value that penny did. Shortly after the trade penny got injured which shows that our FO must've had some idea. We didnt trade pavano b/c he was our ace last year and we were making a run at the postseason. If Burnett reinjures that elbow and requires another procedure he'll be lucky if he gets a minor league deal in the next 3 years. Burnett as of now is a gamble, which is why we shouldnt re-sign him either. Penny was the best choice to trade, and the fact he got injured shows how much more value that trade had.

we're going to be arguing about this topic for years.

If you think Beckett and Burnett were untradable last July, you're nuts. I should note that I wasn't in favor trading them either at the time, especially for what was received from the Dodgers. The team needed additional pieces last summer, not to swap its weaknesses for even greater weaknesses. Small additional pieces to address the terrible bench and bad bullpen. An extra bench bat and a reliever with a good K rate and capable of spot-starting. Those come cheaply. I understand Beinfest and Loria's decision. They were trading one of their strengths, probably fearing the team couldn't sign both Penny and Pavano at the end of the season. Not worrying about starting pitching depth, because there were off-days to skip Valdez and if Beckett or Burnett went down the team probably didn't have a chance anyway. Their personal relationship with Pavano, and their respect of LoDuca and Mota, probably fueled the decisions that they made. What I didn't understand the facination with those players or how little was gotten for Penny when he was the best truly available pitcher on the market or how little was gotten for Bill Murphy who the D'Backs loved. But it's over. Oh well.

How anyone could think that trading away an above average pitcher (who ended up getting injured) and a below average first baseman for an above average catcher, below average right fielder (who's above average defensively), and the best set-up man over the last three years who will be our closer this year is beyond me.

Wasn't a proposed Brad Penny for Bartolo Colon deal in early 2003(y?) held up because the Expos (may they rest in peace) were worried about Penny's health?

The Reds also turned down a deal for Penny after they saw the results of his physical.

I don't question the exchange of talent. Aside that one-third of the acquired talent was injured at the time and the other two-thirds had bad second-half trends. When you're trading youth for veterans, it's a win-now trade. Any objective analysis of the trade would show that the Marlins did not improve their chances winning during the second half of 2004.

 

However you are being far too generous to the current Marlins.

 

Encarnacion is above-average offensively? I think you mean defensively. Of course, considering the position he plays handles fewer chances than any other position on the field, that means nothing. Mota's over 30, I like him a lot, but he's not the next hot young closer. LoDuca plays a position that drops off greatly after the top 5 or 6 players at the position. LoDuca is in that weak middle tier of catchers. Don't let the All-Star selections, all injury-aided by the way, fool you. The best catchers play in the AL. He's in the middle tier offensively, and bad defensively.

:hat seriously wat r yall smokin???? well i gotta admit i miss him but delgado looks way better and plus choi didnt even know how to hit!!

:hat seriously wat r yall smokin????

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