June 1, 200521 yr As for someone mentioned Mecir. In the month of May of you take away his one bad appearance he has given up 1 run in 10 innings. He has 4 holds, 1 win and 2 blowsn saves.? One was his bad game and the other was a game in which he did not allow an earned run. 790983[/snapback] OK... let's see. Before tonight, Nate had one bad game - May 17, where he gave up 3 runs in a third of an inning. You take out that game (as you did for Mecir), you get an ERA of 2.13 (3 ER in 12.2 IP). Not bad. As for blown saves - zero. Two less than Mecir. "Holds" is a flawed stat, in that it isn't awarded consistently (nor is it official, if I recall). As for some others who say he doesn't belong in the majors, you have to realize that his job is not to overpower people like a Mota/Alfonseca. His velocitiy/method of pitching serves as an opposite to the Beckett/Burnett/Willis that throw hard. I think he is perfectly suited for this role and has executed it quite well.
June 1, 200521 yr It's amazing how some knowledgable posters are such idiots on some subjects(this isnt directed at you Stag) atleast some people back their thoughts up with stats man, this board is going down the drain in a hurry
June 1, 200521 yr I'm sorry but this guy stinks. He has become my whipping boy on the Marlins. Whether or not it's his fault when we lose, IT'S HIS FAULT. I'm so tired of watching him blow leads. Yeah I know I may be overreacting a little but he never fails to disappoint me. He has to go. 790852[/snapback] I didn't watch or listen to tonight's game, but it sounds like a personal problem to me. Seek counseling.
June 1, 200521 yr All this doesnt matter because the pen ultimately will be: Mota, Jones, Perisho, Spoon, Alfonseca, Mecir and Riedling with sprinkles of Bump.
June 1, 200521 yr Also you have to realize that he's the only reliever in the 'pen that can go more than 1 inning. Reidling could, but he's not fully recovered from injury early this season. That means a lot of mop-up work that he's instructed to throw fat fastballs down the plate and hope the defense half-assedly converts them into outs. It also means he's the last pitcher in extra inning games, and hope the terrible offense score runs before his arm gives out. He's also the extreme groundball pitcher on the staff. So Jack calls on him often with the crucial run on third and then brings in the infield defense. He's not a strikeout guy. 99% of the time he's going to give up a groundball to a vacanted spot. 1% of the time is actualy going to work out that a fielding throws out the runner at home. His ERA is better than it appears. He's not a clutch guy at all. He's an effective middle reliever capable of filling many roles. Just don't expect him to get that crucial strikeout. Don't expect him to provide miracles that very few other pitchers could. He'll be sorely missed when he's sent to AAA, and Walking Man Perisho and Stink Reidling, with major league contracts and roster spots, are busy putting opposing runners on base. I don't where people are getting their inherited runner numbers, but here's the numbers from BaseballProspectus and ESPN: Player InheritedRunners IRScored BequenthedRunners BRScored Jones 4 0 4 0 Bump 5 1 7 2 Perisho 19 4 10 1 Alfonseca 4 1 1 0 Mecir 9 3 2 2 Smith 2 1 2 0 Crowell 4 2 1 0 Bazardo 2 2 0 0 Kensing 2 2 0 0 Moehler 0 0 0 0 Mota 0 0 1 0 Reidling 0 0 3 2
June 1, 200521 yr Those stats are irrelevant regarding what happened tonight. You can find almost any stat you need to make your point if you operate in a vacuum. Bump's performance (like any other player being evaluated) has to be taken in its totality.
June 1, 200521 yr He has been very solid for us this year in the pen. He's hardly blown any leads. 790871[/snapback] You watching the games? 790951[/snapback] How about all the times Bump was brought into games with runners on and got the out? I think he's allowed one inherited runner so far this year. You have to look at the whole picture. What we need are guys that hit the ball and drive in runs which is the biggest problem this team has.
June 1, 200521 yr I hate people who bitch and provide nos solutions. Especially when there are NO better solutions. Unless you want to trot Crowell out there some more. Bump is a ML average reliever and I'm happy to have him on the club.
June 1, 200521 yr Here's some numbers that you neglected.... Perisho 2-0, 1.46 ERA 2ER in 12.1 innings (this board's massive whipping boy...even more then Bump) Jones 0-1 1.48 ERA 4 ER in 24.1 innings Mota 0-1 2.31 ERA 3 ER in 11.2 innings Alfonseca 0-1 1.59 1 ER in 5.2 innings... You guys all get on Perisho for his walks yet the numbers say that he's doing an outstanding job so i think that we need to look in the mirror when we criticize someone with worse numbers then him and then cry look at the numbers as an argument against him....
June 1, 200521 yr its not his fault its mr.mckeon's fault for leaving him in against the lefty daryle ward we need another lhp in the pen one isnt enough.
June 1, 200521 yr its not his fault its mr.mckeon's fault for leaving him in against the lefty daryle ward we need another lhp in the pen one isnt enough. 791666[/snapback] Exactly
June 1, 200521 yr Here's some numbers that you neglected.... Perisho 2-0, 1.46 ERA 2ER in 12.1 innings (this board's massive whipping boy...even more then Bump) Jones 0-1 1.48 ERA 4 ER in 24.1 innings Mota 0-1 2.31 ERA 3 ER in 11.2 innings Alfonseca 0-1 1.59 1 ER in 5.2 innings... You guys all get on Perisho for his walks yet the numbers say that he's doing an outstanding job so i think that we need to look in the mirror when we criticize someone with worse numbers then him and then cry look at the numbers as an argument against him.... 791664[/snapback] Once again. No solutions. Why don't you keep a screw-up o-meter for every reliever?
June 1, 200521 yr FishFanInPA, Context is important when viewing stats. Perisho is a lefty specialist. His job is to come in and get 1 or 2 batters out per game. He doesn't face many batters and rarely if ever gets the opportunity to have them cross home plate while still on the mound. His ERA is going to be as good as the pitchers that follow him, which as you can clearly see from the list above are pretty damn good. Also I don't think anyone was complaining about Jones, Mota or Alfonseca, although Jones and Mota may be benefitting from easy 1-inning 3-run bases empty save situations. Perisho has one job, get lefties out. the other relievers have many other jobs, such as stopping rallies, eating innings and preventing runs in general. Mota, Jones, Bump, Reidling and the rest are best measured by their ERA, WHIP and success with inherited runners. Perisho's success is rated by how well he gets lefties out. He's not at doing it at a satisfactory rate (.455 OBP against) and not seizing on the natural platoon advantage he has over them by walking them. That's why he doesn't have many supporters. If you add another lefty to the pen, you're going to have the same problem. Perisho or that lefty will be forced to face a righthander some time. Remember last year when Perisho and Phelps were in the bullpen at the same time? You can't mix and match for every single batter. You only have too many roster spots you can spend on the bullpen.
June 1, 200521 yr Bump has given up some 'infamous' hits this season that have led to losses, but if there is someone you want to dump off of the pen, look towards Riedling, or the various appearances of guys like Kensing and Travis Smith.
June 1, 200521 yr Here's some numbers that you neglected.... Perisho 2-0, 1.46 ERA 2ER in 12.1 innings (this board's massive whipping boy...even more then Bump) Jones 0-1 1.48 ERA 4 ER in 24.1 innings Mota 0-1 2.31 ERA 3 ER in 11.2 innings Alfonseca 0-1 1.59 1 ER in 5.2 innings... You guys all get on Perisho for his walks yet the numbers say that he's doing an outstanding job so i think that we need to look in the mirror when we criticize someone with worse numbers then him and then cry look at the numbers as an argument against him.... 791664[/snapback] Perisho's numbers are well because he gets bailed out all the time all he ever does is come in, walk a guy and get 1 out.... he loves walkin the farm
June 1, 200521 yr 2005 Reliever Stats: Nate Bump- 24.2 IP, 3.65 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, 1/5 IRS, 14 K, 4 BB, 0/1 SV, 2 H, .281/.317/.406 Against, .256 VsL, 5 GDP, 3.38 GB/F Matt Perisho- 12.1 IP, 1.46 ERA, 1.54 WHIP, 4/20 IRS, 9 K, 10 BB, 0/0 SV, 4 H, .220/.377/.341 Against, .292 VsL, 1 GDP, 0.47 GB/F Todd Jones- 24.1 IP, 1.48 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 0/4 IRS, 19 K, 10 BB, 8/9 SV, 1 H, .230/.323/.264 Against, .225 VsL, 2 GDP, 1.48 GB/F Guillermo Mota- 11.2 IP, 2.31 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, 0/0 IRS, 9 K, 6 BB, 2/2 SV, 0 H, .227/.320/.295 Against, .227 VsL, 1 GDP, 1.15 GB/F Jim Mecir- 18.1 IP, 4.42 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, 4/9 IRS, 14 K, 7 BB, 0/2 SV, 5 H, .292/.354/.361 Against, 2 GDP, .333 VsL, 1.67 GB/F These have been our Big Five out of the pen this year. Riedling was not included as he is not consistently an option for close situations unless forced, and Alfonseca was not included as he wasn't in the role long enough due to injury. For the Baseball Impaired, here is what everything means: IP- Innings Pitched ERA- Earned Run Average WHIP- Walks and Hits per Innings Pitched IRS- Inherited Runners Scored (second number is how many inherited) K- Strikeouts BB- Walks SV- Saves (second number is save chances) H- Holds Against- Average, On Base Percentage, and Slugging Percentage Against Pitcher VsL- Average by Left handed batters against pitcher GDP- Double Plays forced GB/F- Ground Ball to Fly Ball ratio Now, I'd say these were our pen roles: Jones- Closer Mota- Setup Perisho- Lefty Specialist Mecir- Fireman/Setup Bump- Fireman/Mopup Riedling- Mopup Whatever AAAA body is up this week- Mopup Judging by the stats I'm looking at, Todd Jones has easily been the top pitcher in our pen thus far this year, with Guillermo Mota a close second due mostly to time away on the disabled list. Jones has sat in his roles and shut down the competition, with his only blown save coming before he was a closer. Mota has been brutally efficient in the chances he's been given thus far, whether they are to close or not, and the numbers reflect that. Then, we have a conundrum. Matt Perisho is supposed to be the lefty specialist and fireman against lefties, and the Jim Mecir/Nate Bump tandem are responsible for putting out fires against righties before the 8th inning. In this day of highly specialized pen roles, one would judge a reliever by his job filling the role he has been designated as, and then by his overall numbers and effect on the field. With this in mind, Matt Perisho is easily the worst of the five - our lefty specialist can only get righties out, and he's walked more batters than he's struck out. Having a .377 OBP against is just unacceptable. Jim Mecir isn't too far, however. Hitters are obviously not fooled by the screwball at the moment, and while he isn't allowing inherited runners to score he is allowing plenty on his own to score. Yeah yeah take away one bad outing, but one bad outing does not allow hitters to hit .292 against you. Nate Bump isn't allowing inherited runners to score and isn't walking people, but righties aren't fooled and they are getting on against him. However he has pitched well enough to get himself out of these predicaments more often than not, so he gets the nod against two guys who can't get themselves out of their own messes. My ranking so far of the Big 5: 1- Jones 2- Mota 3- Bump 4- Mecir 5- Perisho Same s***, different year.
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