I saw some high-end commercial towers built a couple of blocks east of the Orange Bowl. BTW, I have been in downtown exiting at 5:15 and seeing what it is like. Downtown is not reasonable for 38k crowds because it can get gridlocked with 20k.

During the day downtown swells to over a million people. So to say it gets gridlocked at 20k people is false. Especially concidering that a couple hundred thousand people make downtown their home with many MANY more to come w/ the expanding condo market that has centered itself in downtown Miami.

 

Again, I stress the use of the Metrorail and People Mover around downtown. Also, for those already working in Downtown the stadium would be incredibly close. These people can't make it to weeknight games because even if they get off at 5pm it will take them at least an hour to get home OR to the stadium striaght from work.

 

I am well aware of the fact that a stadium in downtown is a pipe dream at best. I also know the city is reluctant to give up precious downtown waterfront land for a baseball stadium. My argument is that it would be THE BEST for both the city (if they end up owning the team/stadium. plus bringing a commercial element that is lacking in downtown miami; shops, resturants and bars) and the team (prime location in the heart of the county). Having a location with so many positive attributes makes the idea of an OB location, or any other location for that matter, laughable.

 

PS: I work in downtown and i exit every day at 5:15. You should see the traffic to get west on 836 and the traffic going north on I-95. So you help my argument out by saying its almost impossible to get out of downtown at 5pm.

It's all irrelevant because Downtown isn't even an option anymore. So it's this or nothing. I'm getting sick of people putting down the neighborhood I grew up at. :mad

Just to bring something new into this discussion...

 

If you have read my latest thread on the Supreme Court ruling on the eminent domain case in Ct. (which I had commented on and won't comment on it here), it now looks like local gov'ts' powers on ED have been reaffirmed. I'm not sure if this would ever affect in any way the Marlins stadium plan because they're now so far along in the process that it would require a complete collapse before all parties can move on. However, this has the potential of opening up new locations which may not have been looked at because of ED issues. I'm thinking of the old Miami Arena site. That thing has been sold already but I don't know if the new owner can ever make money on that building. Wasn't the reason it was passed up because there was a problem with owners of certain properties nearby? Or were they deemed too costly to purchase them?

BEAUTIFUL! you took the words right out of my mouth. I've been waiting all day to make a statement on that. This DOES effect the Marlins stadium deal and you KNOW that behind closed doors the Marlins are going to try and change the location or see what strings they can pull.

 

The stadium will probably not go into the old Miami Arena area because that is a tiny plot of land. No where near the size it would take for a baseball stadium. And it is also landlocked by condos on either side. But this would be a great location if it were big enough. The city is hoping that the owner of Miami Arena will turn that lot of land into condos or office buildings.

 

However, thre is the Overtown Area which will be the lead weight in Miami's quest to revitalize downtown. For decades now they have been talking about "cleaning up" overtown and "turning it around". They have tried to clean up Overtown just so its citizens can trash it again. So I say buy up the land in Overtown and build the stadium and sell land to business owners for them to develop. This would be a great idea because it kills 2 birds with one stone. You get a new stadium and you bring new life to the Overtown area.

 

Obviously this is easier said than done and a lot more politics come into play here. But if the city is reluctant to give up land in the heart of downtown then Overtown seems the next viable solution and it is just north of the heart of downtown.

While the Arena site is too small, the area directly west of the arena (west of Metrorail) is perfect. That's where is should go, as it is right on the Rail, and in the midst of a downtown which will soon be teeming with Condos & residents who just might want something to do on a Tuesday night. It's just too perfect (except for the cost factor....).

yep. and i think this new supreme court ruling might give an incentive for the city of miami to clean up its slum areas which a new baseball stadium and a new commercial district will help do. (btw, the area directly west of the metro rial is being developed by a condo. but i'm not sure if you were talking about that exact location)

Knocking down blocks of Overtown would be a massive effort. However that is an empowerment zone and that could make up the difference in funding. However I haven't heard anything of this. We shall see.

Map of Overtown (for the Miami-challenged) courtesy of Overtown.org

 

Overtown is horrendous Musk. Have you ever even ventured there? Thats an area that development can't save. Overtown is really scary.

I *heart* Little Havana

Overtown is horrendous Musk. Have you ever even ventured there? Thats an area that development can't save. Overtown is really scary.

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yes i've "ventured" there. my dad has been a cop there for 20 years. I just finished having lunch there. development can and will save overtown. For the simple reason that development will kick the scum out of overtown. Development kicks all types of scum out of scummy areas. Example: South Beach kicked out all the cuban criminals that came over on the mario from the beach in the late 80's. Also, yes Little Havana is a safer neighborhood, but that is relative. It is not a place where you would want to walk down the street at 11pm and get lost either. Saftey is all relative.

 

The reason i like overtown so much is because it is apart of the city of miami and you have 836, 395, and I-95 that intersect right at there so you address traffic from the north/south/east/and west. The metro is right there. The land is very cheap and the city NEEDS to clean up that area (and is extremely willing to). If the city does it right, which I believe it will with their new found mistress - condo developers, you could see a cleaner, safer overtown. but this would have to happen all at once. The land for the stadium, parking, and commercial development surrounding the stadium need to be collected at the same time. If it is done piece by piece (IE: stadium gets built then years later the commercial district will come) then you will never see any commercial development (see: Miami Arena).

How would you pay for this large landgrab?

tell me the prices and i'll let you know. if we are going to talk about financing they we might as well stop dreaming of a stadium because land prices are only going to go up along w/ construction prices. The point i brought up was location. A discussion on financing would require a complete statement on financing the stadium. get me one of those and i'll tell you.

tell me the prices and i'll let you know. if we are going to talk about financing they we might as well stop dreaming of a stadium because land prices are only going to go up along w/ construction prices. The point i brought up was location. A discussion on financing would require a complete statement on financing the stadium. get me one of those and i'll tell you.

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I think you misunderstood my question. How would this landgrab be paid for? Would you use a sales tax, empowerment zone, revenues from resale of land? How would you envision paying for this?

well it seems like the sales tax is out of the question. i dont think the marlins would want to use the sale of luxury boxes to finance the stadium (this is one major draw back of joe robbie stadium). I'm not really familar with the empowerment zone you are talking about. I think eventually the Marlins are going to have to foot most of the bill if they really want this thing to work and thats how i would like to see the stadium being paid for. Tax payers should not have to pay for a stadium that not all of them will use. Also, as we've seen, the political backlash would be incredible especially with the county's historical mis-use of tax revenue.

 

Maybe the city could donate the land (as they are doing with the Orange Bowl) knowing that doing this would lead to greater revenue from the area once it is re-zoned for commercial use and they would recieve revenue from that. The city has a hard time thinking long-term. Replacing the slum area with a baseball stadium and shops and resturants would only draw more people to the city. Right now no one will build a condo near Overtown. How would you sell that?

 

"Come visit our condos. Each condo purchase gets you one free crack rock from your local Overtown neighbors"