I'm not sure I like this. Thanks for the insider info bub, but shut up or stop cheating. Ever heard of a pseudonym?

 

Baseball rules clearly state that you cannot use any foreign substance on the baseball to gain an advantage -- no pine tar, Vaseline, sandpaper, shaving cream, whatever. The rules also say that hitters cannot doctor their bats to give them an advantage.

 

Now that we have the disclaimers out of the way, let's get to the reality: As long as I've been around the game -- and as long as there has been baseball -- people have bent the rules to gain an advantage. In the 1920s, it was the spitball. Nowadays, it's scuffing. Hitters used to rub some kind of bone on their bats to make the wood seem harder. Now they rub their bats on bathroom sinks to get the same effect.

 

I pitched in Denver for two years, and at a mile above sea level, I used pine tar every time I pitched at home. My thinking was that I was more than 5,000 feet in the air and was entitled to at least do that much. I never thought one thing about it. Was it cheating? My numbers say no, given that my career ERA at Coors Field is 7.64 in 59 games. It's very dry in Denver, and that makes the baseball slippery. I needed the tar to hold onto the ball. I didn't want the ball to slip and hit a hitter. At least, that was my thinking. I never considered it cheating; I was breaking even.

 

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Last week in Anaheim, the Nationals asked that the glove of Angels reliever Brendan Donnelly be checked before he threw a pitch, and he subsequently was ejected for having pine tar in it. Sounds like an inside job to me, and perhaps Frank Robinson was tipped off. You can draw your own conclusions. I have played with guys who scuffed or used pine tar and then we've been on different teams the next year. I have been told in so many words that if a former teammate gets checked, then that player will retaliate. To me, that means, "Hey man, you didn't mind me scuffing or using pine tar when we were teammates, so don't rat me out now." And it's left alone on almost every occasion.

 

I've been around pitching coaches who teach how to scuff or use pine tar. There's actually an art to scuffing, and there are two fatal errors guys make. The first: They scuff too often. To get away with scuffing, you have to know when to do it. Coaches and older players who have been around a long time know when they see a scuffed ball. So you have to pick your spots. You use it when it's a big part of the game and hope to take advantage of the small window of opportunity before the other team is tipped off. The umpire usually doesn't check the pitcher until the opposing manager asks him to.

 

The other mistake is making the scuff too big. Don't dig a hole in the side of the ball; just lightly brush the sandpaper across the side. If you want the ball to break left, leave the scuff mark on the right side.

 

Now that I've told you how to scuff, the question becomes: How much can players get away with in their own clubhouses? It's funny; pine tar is no big deal to players. Everybody uses pine tar. Catchers put in on their shinguards. Infielders put it in the pockets of their gloves so the ball will stick in there. It's almost a basic part of the game. Sandpaper and Vaseline, however, are looked at as cheating. They give pitchers too much of an advantage.

 

For hitters, boning bats in the bathroom is not considered cheating. Corking, however, is. Guys bone their bats in broad daylight. When a guy corks, he does it in private. If you cork and word gets out, it's bad news. You're a marked man.

 

Though there might be a difference between scuffing and using pine tar, technically speaking, they're both against the letter of the rulebook. So here's the thing: If you get caught, don't overreact. Have a good time with it until you get caught.

 

So the decision to cheat is up to you. Kind of like life, huh?

 

Email Todd Jones, a reliever for the Marlins, at tjones@sportingnews.com.

 

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=stic...v=tsn&type=lgns

On a related note I only just now found out that he is a regular column writer. Here is his archive Tood Jones articles

good read, hes got a great point

Brian Moehler was caught with sandpaper taped to his index finger in a game in 1999 and suspended for 10 games.

I'm with Todd Jones on this. I alluded to this in the Donnelly thread, but didn't get much support.

 

Sure, the pitchers are breaking the rules. However, these rules are the type that are so commonly broken that it becomes acceptable after awhile. Eveything is fine until an a**hole like Frank Robinson comes along and tries to have a mental advantage over the other team.

 

I'm guessing the umpires know how widespread this issue is, but they know it doesn't have a real effect so they don't bother with it. However, in Los Angeles they were obligated too because they were called on it.

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It's one thing to break the rules. It's quite another to admit it in print no less! This does not set a good example for up and coming pitchers or children for that matter. I think a lot less of Todd Jones now.

I couldn't disagree more. As you can guess from the title of the post. Maybe this stuff was ok in past eras, but not anymore. Steroids are out, pine tar where it doesn't belong is out, and sandpaper should certainly be out. The players that can throw a ball, hit a ball, and catch a ball the best without injecting themselves or altering the tools of the game should be the players we pay these buckets o' cash to play. Clean up your act! :mad

I'm with Todd Jones on this.? I alluded to this in the Donnelly thread, but didn't get much support.

 

Sure, the pitchers are breaking the rules.? However, these rules are the type that are so commonly broken that it becomes acceptable after awhile.? Eveything is fine until an a**hole like Frank Robinson comes along and tries to have a mental advantage over the other team.

 

I'm guessing the umpires know how widespread this issue is, but they know it doesn't have a real effect so they don't bother with it.? However, in Los Angeles they were obligated too because they were called on it.

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It's one thing to break the rules. It's quite another to admit it in print no less! This does not set a good example for up and coming pitchers or children for that matter. I think a lot less of Todd Jones now.

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This is no big deal. Gaylord Perry openly admitted to using a spitball. Everyone laughed and put him in the Hall of Fame.

I think you must distinguish between steroids and foreign substances based on the fact that these substances have been around forever while steroids are a new phenomena.

 

Penquino: I don't think there was a bucket of pine tar at DoubleDay field along side a roll of sandpaper... :confused

Sandpaper to me is cheating but i dont think that pinetar should be, it is commonly used and correct me if im wrong how is it foriegn if it can be found all around the ballfield, its natural. If you consider a substance such as pinetar cheating than i consider letting the grass grow too long at wrigley as cheating as well as when the Giants watered down the basebaths in 03' to slow JP down.

Sandpaper to me is cheating but i dont think that pinetar should be, it is commonly used and correct me if im wrong how is it foriegn if it can be found all around the ballfield, its natural. If you consider a substance such as pinetar cheating than i consider letting the grass grow too long at wrigley as cheating as well as when the Giants watered down the basebaths in 03' to slow JP down.

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There are no pine trees in center field naturally dripping tar on relievers as they run in from the bullpen. It is foreign because it doesn't come out of the pitcher, ie. sweat balls are ok pitches.

Sandpaper to me is cheating but i dont think that pinetar should be, it is commonly used and correct me if im wrong how is it foriegn if it can be found all around the ballfield, its natural. If you consider a substance such as pinetar cheating than i consider letting the grass grow too long at wrigley as cheating as well as when the Giants watered down the basebaths in 03' to slow JP down.

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There are no pine trees in center field naturally dripping tar on relievers as they run in from the bullpen. It is foreign because it doesn't come out of the pitcher, ie. sweat balls are ok pitches.

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so then a spitball is legal?

No. I believe there is a seperate rule specifically outlawing that, but it would also fit into my analogy. Spit isn't naturally a substance that comes from a pitcher's hand. My example of sweat was because unless the pitchers goes out of his way to wipe it from his hands it will be there. That's how I read the rule. But who am I?

When i used to pitch in 9th grade for my highschool team i used sweat to make the ball more gripible

When i used to pitch in 9th grade for my highschool team i used sweat to make the ball more gripible

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Cheater! :mischief

so if pine tar is illegal then rubbing your hand on the grass should be illegal. All im saying is that pinetar isnt really giving you that much of an advantage it just helps you grab the ball.

I'm with Todd Jones on this.? I alluded to this in the Donnelly thread, but didn't get much support.

 

Sure, the pitchers are breaking the rules.? However, these rules are the type that are so commonly broken that it becomes acceptable after awhile.? Eveything is fine until an a**hole like Frank Robinson comes along and tries to have a mental advantage over the other team.

 

I'm guessing the umpires know how widespread this issue is, but they know it doesn't have a real effect so they don't bother with it.? However, in Los Angeles they were obligated too because they were called on it.

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How is Robinson an a-hole for catching another player cheating?

 

And I'm not comfortable with the "everybody's doing it" defense. HE BROKE A RULE.

This is one of those rules that no one cares about unless someone's caught doing it by the other team. There's at least one guy on every team who does this, and everyone knows it. They only pull it out if they want to mess with him. If they were serious about it, they would inspect every player's glove, bat, hat, etc before he entered the game. If they get caught, they shouldn't complain. If you've been watching baseball more than a year, you know this. Besides it leads to some pretty funny stuff like George Brett going bonkers, Reggie Jackson dumping his hands in Gatorade to protest Gaylord Perry, or relief pitchers crawling through air ducts to get Albert Belle's corked bat out of the umpires' dressing room.

everyone in baseball does it.

 

I was talking to an up and coming minor league player earlier this year and he was telling me how pitchers on his team aswell as himself would use oil to get that extra bite on his pitches.

 

Think about it...you will try anything to get an advantage to get the person out at the plate.

 

Its become apart of baseball. Simple as that.

Stealing signs is a part of baseball, relaying pitch location is as well. Baseball has lots of cheating. Im sure pitchers on the Nats didnt like what robinson did beacuse im sure some of them were using pine tar and other substances too.

It was Frank Robinson who broke the rules.

 

I'd like to see every pitcher, catcher and infielder for the Nats checked every game from here on out. What a jack*ss Frank is. For god sakes this was going on when I was in high school forty+ years ago.

 

Anyone who played high school or collegiate baseball knows to use pine tar. It's an intregal part of the game. You can go into any Sports Authority today and buy pine tar spray for gloves or see LLers lined up at Home Depot buying pine tar rags to add stickum to the webbing of their gloves.

 

Sheesh.

Frank did it to get Donnelly out of the game, and to mess with the Angels. They won, so it worked. I have no problems with it. However, if I were Scioscia, I would have had every Nats player the rest of the series checked just to spite them.

It was Frank Robinson who broke the rules.

 

I'd like to see every pitcher, catcher and infielder for the Nats checked every game from here on out. What a jack*ss Frank is. For god sakes this was going on when I was in high school forty+ years ago.

 

Anyone who played high school or collegiate baseball knows to use pine tar. It's an intregal part of the game. You can go into any Sports Authority today and buy pine tar spray for gloves or see LLers lined up at Home Depot buying pine tar rags to add stickum to the webbing of their gloves.

 

Sheesh.

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How did Robinson break the rules? Maybe you guys should be taking your rage out on MLB for not removing this rule from their rulebook.

Stealing signs is a part of baseball, relaying pitch location is as well. Baseball has lots of cheating. 824451[/snapback]

Is it in the rulebook that you can't steal signs or relay pitch locations? Is it in the rulebook that you can't use pine tar as a pitcher? There is a difference.

It was Frank Robinson who broke the rules.

 

I'd like to see every pitcher, catcher and infielder for the Nats checked every game from here on out. What a jack*ss Frank is. For god sakes this was going on when I was in high school forty+ years ago.

 

Anyone who played high school or collegiate baseball knows to use pine tar. It's an intregal part of the game. You can go into any Sports Authority today and buy pine tar spray for gloves or see LLers lined up at Home Depot buying pine tar rags to add stickum to the webbing of their gloves.

 

Sheesh.

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How did Robinson break the rules? Maybe you guys should be taking your rage out on MLB for not removing this rule from their rulebook.

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I knew when I wrote that someone would counter with that comment.

 

And I think you know what "rule" I'm talking about, the one Jones speaks of. The "unwritten" rules of the game that every player has to live with if everyone is going to get along.

 

There's no rule that says you can't go into 2nd base cleats up and claw the s*** out of the 2nd base man's ankle, which is how the game was played at every level thirty forty, a hundred years ago, but you don't see it anymore for one reason, it's the rule, the unwritten rule that you don't try to maim your fellow union member, because you might be next.

 

And when it's raining, or it's a cold night in New England, and your fingers are so dry (from the cold) or wet (from the rain), and the ball feels like glass, you have to use a little pine tar to get a decent grasp of the ball or if you're a catcher (for example) you'll be throwing balls into center field all night.

 

Frank knows the rules, the insider rules, and I can promise you Frank Robinson used pine tar hundreds of times when he played or he wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame today. In my mind he's a hypocrite and a cheap shot artist who should be embarrassed at his actions.

 

Maybe someone should take out HIS second base man one day and put him on the DL for a couple of months and then see how Frank complains, but it won't happen because even if the manager isn't going to play by the "rules", the players will.

How can you compare intentionally injuring an opponent to using pine tar in a game? Donnelley cheated and he was caught. I really don't think it's a big deal.

 

When I played a Babe Ruth All-Star game, our manager coached third on a hot day with shorts and a t-shirt. Around the second inning, the opposing manager told the ump and the ump made skip put on pants- apparently, there was some rule that didn't allow you to wear shorts while coaching third. Did I think that coach was a jerk? Sure, because it didn't affect the game. Donnelley using pine tar does.

 

I guess I just don't "get it."