July 20, 200521 yr ebonics is a language as much as the spanish spoken by argentinians is a different language compared to the one spoken by cubans. when you can engage in dialogue with a person and fully understand each other then you are speaking the same language. no ifs or buts about it. strom thurmond spoke of a segregated but equal america. a bogus concept without a doubt. and this will only help segregate african americans through language. old strom would be proud. 865574[/snapback] This is why I have a lot of respect for Bill Cosby. He realizes that African Americans as a whole keep themselves down and he pushes education and wants to stop the stereotype that to speak proper English is to speak "white". I have heard that excuse many times myself. It has nothing to do with being white. It is sad that so many basic concepts that are open to all humans have been segregated racially. 866917[/snapback] So are you against the use of regional dialects? An old Charleston wealthy caucasian male may refrain from pronouncing his "r" sounds. "Here" may be pronounced "he-uh". Or a white female from Minnesota may pronounce "bag" as "baig" (strong a-sound). I understand the purpose of refraining from using slang in a professional setting, but I'm vehemently against the declination of accents in a professional setting. Language is an important part of culture, is it not? I personally do not want to see regional cultures (or historical cultures) melt into one American culture. The beauty of this country is that so many cultures can interact well. I don't want to hear blacks speak in "proper English" no more than I want to hear a Charleston man pronounce his word-ending r-sounds.
July 20, 200521 yr ebonics is a language as much as the spanish spoken by argentinians is a different language compared to the one spoken by cubans. when you can engage in dialogue with a person and fully understand each other then you are speaking the same language. no ifs or buts about it. strom thurmond spoke of a segregated but equal america. a bogus concept without a doubt. and this will only help segregate african americans through language. old strom would be proud. 865574[/snapback] This is why I have a lot of respect for Bill Cosby. He realizes that African Americans as a whole keep themselves down and he pushes education and wants to stop the stereotype that to speak proper English is to speak "white". I have heard that excuse many times myself. It has nothing to do with being white. It is sad that so many basic concepts that are open to all humans have been segregated racially. 866917[/snapback] So are you against the use of regional dialects? An old Charleston wealthy caucasian male may refrain from pronouncing his "r" sounds. "Here" may be pronounced "he-uh". Or a white female from Minnesota may pronounce "bag" as "baig" (strong a-sound). I understand the purpose of refraining from using slang in a professional setting, but I'm vehemently against the declination of accents in a professional setting. Language is an important part of culture, is it not? I personally do not want to see regional cultures (or historical cultures) melt into one American culture. The beauty of this country is that so many cultures can interact well. I don't want to hear blacks speak in "proper English" no more than I want to hear a Charleston man pronounce his word-ending r-sounds. 866954[/snapback] Ebonics is hardly a recognized or respected "dialect". It's much larger than pronounciations and accents. It is a butchering of English grammar and vocabulary and a symbol of society's decline in education. Whether in the professional environment or in a public place, it needs to be weeded out and people need to learn to speak more properly. Nobody's grammar is perfect 100% of the time, but there is certainly room for easy improvement. The thing about saying "Let me aks you a question" and "I like peas wit' corn" is that a lot of the people who speak like this are exposed to the proper way of saying it their entire lives. I know people who speak this way on purpose because they sure didn't speak that way before. But like you said, it is probably a spin-off of the BET/MTV culture. People see their favorite rap musicians speaking this way, so they imitate it. My brother's friends are ridiculous.
July 20, 200521 yr It's not a f*cking spin-off of BET/MTV culture! Sure, some people might not really speak like that, but then begin too b/c of BET/MTV. But I also know people that try picking up a southern accent when they go to school in Mississippi, even though they're from Virginia or Oklahoma or something. But, most people that say "aks" instead of "ask" were raised that way. They got it from their parents, who got it from their parents. I think it's a beautiful thing. I went to a black church once, and the lady told me to turn the visitor card into the "ersher". Did she get that from hearing Ludacris and Usher being played on BET? Hell no. She got it b/c that's how they pronounce things! And it is NOT a buthering of the English grammar and vocabulary. It's a twist on it. Newsflash: There is technically no proper English. The point of a language: To get one's point across. They do it well.
July 20, 200521 yr It's not a f*cking spin-off of BET/MTV culture! Sure, some people might not really speak like that, but then begin too b/c of BET/MTV. But I also know people that try picking up a southern accent when they go to school in Mississippi, even though they're from Virginia or Oklahoma or something. But, most people that say "aks" instead of "ask" were raised that way. They got it from their parents, who got it from their parents. I think it's a beautiful thing. I went to a black church once, and the lady told me to turn the visitor card into the "ersher". Did she get that from hearing Ludacris and Usher being played on BET? Hell no. She got it b/c that's how they pronounce things! And it is NOT a buthering of the English grammar and vocabulary. It's a twist on it. Newsflash: There is technically no proper English. The point of a language: To get one's point across. They do it well. 867351[/snapback] Not when they are talking to me. It sounds like unintelligent garble. I still think teachers should teach them how to place the 's' before 'k' in 'ask'. I'm all for accents and dialects, but typically dialects are based on location and not race. It may be fun to hear in church or on rap CDs, but as long as they keep speaking this way, it will be difficult for them to get good jobs and that is a sad thing. You are right though, successful communication only requires someone to get their point across and almost anyone can do that. But proper speaking demands respect and listeners. I would expect myself to get very far if I put something like this on a job application: "I be 22 years old and Ima gonna be a good worker here at SBC." Now that is just a mix of strange talk and it looks really stupid. All I'm saying is, encouraging Ebonics will not get anyone anywhere.
July 20, 200521 yr "I be 22 years old and Ima gonna be a good worker here at SBC." 867433[/snapback] That sounds like an Italian plummer man.
July 20, 200521 yr Ebonics is hardly a recognized or respected "dialect". Actually, it is; and the proper name for it is African American Vernacular English (AAVE). You may want to read up on it before spouting anymore crap on a topic that you obviously know nothing about. :thumbup
July 20, 200521 yr "I be 22 years old and Ima gonna be a good worker here at SBC." 867433[/snapback] That sounds like an Italian plummer man. 867449[/snapback] LOL. I wasn't really going for anything specific. I just blended different themes to make one conglomeration of incoherent speech.
July 20, 200521 yr Thank you TariAJ. I've actually studied it in a Modern British and American Literature class. Very interesting. Also interesting to see the similarities between AAVE and Southern English.
July 20, 200521 yr "I be 22 years old and Ima gonna be a good worker here at SBC." 867433[/snapback] That sounds like an Italian plummer man. 867449[/snapback] LOL. I wasn't really going for anything specific. I just blended different themes to make one conglomeration of incoherent speech. 867460[/snapback] and if someone said "I be 22 years old and Ima gonna be a good worker here at SBC" I'd have no problem understanding him. None whatsoever. It would take a completely ignorant fool to not understand him.
July 20, 200521 yr "I be 22 years old and Ima gonna be a good worker here at SBC." 867433[/snapback] That sounds like an Italian plummer man. 867449[/snapback] LOL. I wasn't really going for anything specific. I just blended different themes to make one conglomeration of incoherent speech. 867460[/snapback] and if someone said "I be 22 years old and Ima gonna be a good worker here at SBC" I'd have no problem understanding him. None whatsoever. It would take a completely ignorant fool to not understand him. 867466[/snapback] Well sure you can understand him, but I can't imagine anyone would be too impressed. I understand people when they give me the finger, but getting the point across simply isn't enough to impress.
July 20, 200521 yr I'm supposed to impress people with my language? Maybe in a professional setting...but I'm not talking about a professional setting. I'm talking about normal conversation. I don't speak AAVE, but I sure speak to my friends much different than when I speak to my professors. No?
July 20, 200521 yr Ebonics is hardly a recognized or respected "dialect".? Actually, it is; and the proper name for it is African American Vernacular English (AAVE). You may want to read up on it before spouting anymore crap on a topic that you obviously know nothing about. :thumbup 867459[/snapback] Yeah, so it has a name that is politically correct. Big deal. Still not impressed.
July 20, 200521 yr I'm supposed to impress people with my language? Maybe in a professional setting...but I'm not talking about a professional setting. I'm talking about normal conversation. I don't speak AAVE, but I sure speak to my friends much different than when I speak to my professors. No? 867477[/snapback] Sounds like an identity crisis.
July 20, 200521 yr sounds like every other American. I also speak different amongst my friends than when I speak to a friend's mom. I don't call my friend "sir", but I call his father "sir". I don't use foul language around his parents as well. "sounds like an identity crisis"? More like, you've been proven wrong on a subject you know nothing about (you practically admitted to knowing nothing of ebonics--AAVE). You can argue all you want, but your points are being proven wrong THROUGH EXAMPLES repetitively. Give me some educated points please! Read up on AAVE. Study it. Do like any educated human being would do.
July 20, 200521 yr Ebonics is hardly a recognized or respected "dialect". Actually, it is; and the proper name for it is African American Vernacular English (AAVE). You may want to read up on it before spouting anymore crap on a topic that you obviously know nothing about. :thumbup 867459[/snapback] Yeah, so it has a name that is politically correct. Big deal. Still not impressed. 867478[/snapback] If my goal were to impress you, I'd be disappointed. Thanks for missing the point, though.
July 20, 200521 yr sounds like every other American. I also speak different amongst my friends than when I speak to a friend's mom. I don't call my friend "sir", but I call his father "sir". I don't use foul language around his parents as well. "sounds like an identity crisis"? More like, you've been proven wrong on a subject you know nothing about (you practically admitted to knowing nothing of ebonics--AAVE). You can argue all you want, but your points are being proven wrong THROUGH EXAMPLES repetitively. Give me some educated points please! Read up on AAVE. Study it. Do like any educated human being would do. 867483[/snapback] Calling somebody "sir" is only a title. I don't think that completely changes your style of speech you use with friends or your friends' parents. I haven't been proven wrong on anything. And how can I know nothing about something I have heard practically every day of my life? You might as well say I am ignorant about my own name. I don't need to read up on it. It would only kill my brain cells. I posted a response in this topic originally because I want to see African Americans receive better educations so they can get better jobs and most people can see that there are relationships between education and success. I don't see how any of my "points" have been proven wrong. Take a look at demographic reports regarding the economy. Take a look at the African Americans that have succeeded in business in the United States. I don't think Colin Powell or Condoleeza(sp?) Rice would be where they are today if they spoke Ebonics. And please don't embarrass yourself by listing a bunch of professional athletes.
July 20, 200521 yr Ebonics is hardly a recognized or respected "dialect".? Actually, it is; and the proper name for it is African American Vernacular English (AAVE). You may want to read up on it before spouting anymore crap on a topic that you obviously know nothing about. :thumbup 867459[/snapback] Yeah, so it has a name that is politically correct. Big deal. Still not impressed. 867478[/snapback] If my goal were to impress you, I'd be disappointed. Thanks for missing the point, though. 867486[/snapback] I didn't miss the point. I understand what you are saying, but the whole point of why I posted here originally was to encourage people to learn to speak in a more professional manner to help them succeed.
July 20, 200521 yr I can take such African Americans who are well respected in their community such as Jesse Jackson. I hear talk of Bill Cosby. I can sense a taste of ebonics in his language! I can look at Malcom X, I can look at athletes (ones who have college degrees!). btw, I know Southerners who don't speak with Southern accents. I guess we should eliminate the Southern accent. It has a connotation with ignorance.
July 20, 200521 yr Ebonics is hardly a recognized or respected "dialect".? Actually, it is; and the proper name for it is African American Vernacular English (AAVE). You may want to read up on it before spouting anymore crap on a topic that you obviously know nothing about. :thumbup 867459[/snapback] Yeah, so it has a name that is politically correct. Big deal. Still not impressed. 867478[/snapback] If my goal were to impress you, I'd be disappointed. Thanks for missing the point, though. 867486[/snapback] I didn't miss the point. I understand what you are saying, but the whole point of why I posted here originally was to encourage people to learn to speak in a more professional manner to help them succeed. 867496[/snapback] How about speaking in a professional manner WHEN IN A PROFESSIONAL SETTING.
July 20, 200521 yr I can take such African Americans who are well respected in their community such as Jesse Jackson. I hear talk of Bill Cosby. I can sense a taste of ebonics in his language! I can look at Malcom X, I can look at athletes (ones who have college degrees!). btw, I know Southerners who don't speak with Southern accents. I guess we should eliminate the Southern accent. It has a connotation with ignorance. 867497[/snapback] Bad examples.
July 20, 200521 yr Ebonics is hardly a recognized or respected "dialect".? Actually, it is; and the proper name for it is African American Vernacular English (AAVE). You may want to read up on it before spouting anymore crap on a topic that you obviously know nothing about. :thumbup 867459[/snapback] Yeah, so it has a name that is politically correct. Big deal. Still not impressed. 867478[/snapback] If my goal were to impress you, I'd be disappointed. Thanks for missing the point, though. 867486[/snapback] I didn't miss the point. I understand what you are saying, but the whole point of why I posted here originally was to encourage people to learn to speak in a more professional manner to help them succeed. 867496[/snapback] How about speaking in a professional manner WHEN IN A PROFESSIONAL SETTING. 867498[/snapback] I try to remain fairly consistent in any setting. That's just my personal choice I guess. I'm not going to stay here and argue about it. I just posted my two cents because I wanted to help shed some light on a good idea. It's not a huge concern to me anyway because it will never affect me. I'm just trying to help create the equality that people believe we already have.
July 21, 200521 yr Two claps on the back for you. You speak with the exact same grammar and vocabulary amongst friends that you would to a 5 year old kid, or two your boss. Now, excuse me whilst I raise my voice in a loud cry of "bulls***!"
July 21, 200521 yr Two claps on the back for you. You speak with the exact same grammar and vocabulary amongst friends that you would to a 5 year old kid, or two your boss. Now, excuse me whilst I raise my voice in a loud cry of "bulls***!" 867707[/snapback] :plain
July 21, 200521 yr You really don't get it. I may not use as big of words with a 5 year old, but I am not going to start using small vocabulary improperly. The whole point is HOW the language is spoken, not which words I use.
July 21, 200521 yr YOU don't understand that you aren't in the situation as a Black American. They don't grow up going "man, I'd love to just say "aks" instead of "ask" b/c it pisses whitefolk off.
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