August 7, 200323 yr They had The Best team last year as well my theory is.... They simply can't play together. They don't mesh something you need to build a real champion. If they lose this year it's plain as day, They just can't play together. That was their intention for bringing in Seau, was really for leadership. Knight and Griese have been said to be very fun, relaxed guys as well. But you are right. If they can't at least make the AFC championship, it's simply that.
August 7, 200323 yr WC you don't get it do you. Where the Packers, Rams, Vikings, and Broncos of the past 4 years given Lombardi trophies for being Paper Champs? NO. Odds are odds. I saw different odds then you guys. If Miami is favored over Tampa by some Vegas casinos and Tampa over Miami in some others. I could care less. The Fins the past 3 years have been picked to win the AFC. Wannstedt just can't get a team to work together. Period. If you guys can't put it together in 3 years, you won't be able to do it in 4 years.
August 8, 200323 yr If you guys can't put it together in 3 years, you won't be able to do it in 4 years. We can't get it done with tons more talent. That might be the funniest quote I've read all day. You just write off a team depite the fact they've been successful the past 7 years with this core, but always had a few holes in all those teams. They have filled every hole that needed to be filled this off-season. This is the only team I can remember that really has no weakness. And if they have any sort of weakness, it's very mild.
August 8, 200323 yr weakness: no proven WR not the best qb(although a winner, not that good) and it seems that the further the year goes on, the tighter the noose becomes
August 8, 200323 yr We can't get it done with tons more talent. That might be the funniest quote I've read all day. You just write off a team depite the fact they've been successful the past 7 years with this core, but always had a few holes in all those teams. They have filled every hole that needed to be filled this off-season. This is the only team I can remember that really has no weakness. And if they have any sort of weakness, it's very mild. dude, you just dont get it. you rely to damn much on stats and names. this team had the talent last year and they got it this year. the question with this years team is do they have the balls, heart, cojones... whatever you want to call it. exactly how perfect were the pats a few years ago? the ravens? the titans or giants when they went?
August 8, 200323 yr Author Well your not gonna win it. Your not even gonna win the AFC. So I guess that means... By-by... Wanny Norv Turner Who else? Who else would lose their head if you guys don't win it all? I don't know the Coaching Staff. If you guys dont win it all, Fiedler will go. You'll probably see an offensive overhaul built around Griese, Williams, McMichael, & Chambers. Defensively you guys would probably get rid of the old farts... Seau, Tim Bowens, Brock Marion But think of it this way. Any Head Coach besides Wanny is better then Wanny. Let me guess you actually think the packers have a chance being over .500 this season? Favres turning 55 this year right? :cool
August 8, 200323 yr weakness: no proven WR not the best qb(although a winner, not that good) QB seems to become less and less of a problem as TC keeps going. Fiedler looks A LOT better than he ever has. Griese looks just as good as Fiedler, and he's learning a new system. And Sage Rosenfels inpresses more and more people with every pass he throws. We may not have a proven big name reciever, but we have four guys that can catch 800 yards (Chambers, Gadsden, Thompson, McKnight). The rookie Tolver looks real nice, too. Chambers and Thompson are both young and easily have 1,000 yard talent. dude, you just dont get it. you rely to damn much on stats and names. this team had the talent last year and they got it this year. the question with this years team is do they have the balls, heart, cojones... whatever you want to call it. exactly how perfect were the pats a few years ago? the ravens? the titans or giants when they went? Do stats and names mean nothing? They tell you what someone has been capable of, and give you an idea of what they can be capable of doing. The team basically added Seau for leadership, something this team really kinda lacked. They are supposedly meshing very well. That's what they need to do. This team is following a format that has won the Super Bowl for the past 3 years. Amazing Defense, slightly above average Offense. I guarentee you this team will compete with Tampa as the best D in football. But this team also has something those other teams didn't have. The NFL's leading rusher, who is supposed to be better than he was last year! Does all this mean nothing to you? The fact they have vet leadership the didn't have before? Talent at positions they didn't have before? PLEASE.
August 8, 200323 yr Originall posted by Esko305 Let me guess you actually think the packers have a chance being over .500 this season? Favres turning 55 this year right? :cool Guys we have our MORON of the year! The idiot of the year. Here he is! Live and in color! The forum idiot! *lets get ready to rumble playing in the background* *me in my announcer voice* ESKOOOOOOOOOO30000005555555555! Esko the Packers will walk to an 11-5/12-4 record. Something nobody disputes. Brett Favre lead the league in TD's last year. He is the QB with the highest Winning Percentage (home and away) of any QB in the NFL since 1950! Besides that Favre has ARGUABLY (im not saying he does, but he might) more talent around him then any other QB in football... 3 RB's that posted at least one 100 yd. game last year. (Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, & Tony Fisher) Arguably the best FB (easily the best Blocking FB) and an All Pro Caliber FB with William Henderson. A starting caliber FB who had a great year last year with the Bengals in Nick Luchey, note: the Bengals are actually a good Rushing Team. 2 Pro Bowl TE's with Bubba Franks and Wesley Walls. (Franks and Walls have 7 Pro Bowls between them) Need I go on? Oh I will.... An All Pro WR with Donald Driver. An All Pro Right Guard with Marco Rivera who played the last few games with 2 TORN MCL's, yes you heard me, 2 TORN MCL's. And every other starting Packers OLinemen has been an All Pro Alternate... C- Mike Flanagan (2002) LG- Mike Wahle (2002) RT- Mark Tauscher (2001) LT- Chad Clifton (2001) And backup Center Frank Winters is also a Former All Pro but he is on his last legs. Hows that for an Offense Esko? 8 Pro Bowlers. 4 All Pro Alternates. = 12 All Pro Caliber Players JUST ON OFFENSE. BEAT THAT Defensively our Reputation isn't nearly as good as our offense but here goes... Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (DE) has over 25 sacks the past 2 years. Gilbert Brown (DT) is one of the best run stoppers when healthy. Joe Johnson (DE) is a 2 time All Pro End. Weakside LB Na'il (pronounced Nile) Diggs was NFC Defensive Player of the month in 2002. Darren Sharper has more tackles then any Safety in football in the Past 4 years. Has more INT's then ANYONE in football in the past 4 years. Is in the top 5 in QB Sacks for Safetys in the past 4 years. And is a 2 Time All Pro. Mike McKenzie is a 3 Time All Pro Alternate (1999, 2001, 2002), and one of the hardest hitting players in football. He lead CB's in tackles in one of the past 3 years (cant remember which year) The Packers Pass Defense was 2nd Last year in the whole NFL behind only Tampa Bay (even ahead of Miami) the scary thing is, the Packers DB's have only improved. Getting rid of the skirt wearing Tyrone Williams (CB, now playing in Atlanta) and replacing him with a clone of Mike McKenzie...Al Harris (literally a clone the dreads, hard hitting, and style of play) Ryan Longwell is one of the 10 Most Accurate Kickers of ALL TIME IN NFL HISTORY. Mike Sherman has the best winning percentage of ANY Packers coach in their first 3 years in Packers history (inlcuding Lambeau, Lombardi, and Holmgren). This team is destined for 11-5/12-4. And if you say Favre is a washup, listen here.... Favre lead the league in TD passes last year. And was in the Top 10 in yards. He is a 3 time NFL MVP nobody, nobody, not Marino, nobody has more MVPs then him. He has the highest Winning Percentage of ANY QB IN NFL HISTORY SINCE 1950! BEAT THAT. Case Closed. The Pack will be over .500 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only thing I will dispute in WC's post is this... Chambers has 1000 yd. talent (there is little question about that). But Thompson doesn't EASILY have it, he has the potential and theres a big difference between potential and talent. Gadsden is INJURY PRONE. McKnight is OVERRATED, you've said it yourself WC! So essentially you have this... 2 Good WRs with Chambers and Thompson. Injury Prone and Old WR with Gadsden. But when healty Gadsden is an ABOVE AVERAGE/DECENT/GOOD #3 WR. A good complimentary veteran to teach the 2 young guns (Chambers and Thompson) Overrated WR with McKnight. And guys WC has a point in that, Pro Bowls and Stats DO MEAN SOMETHING. Not everything. But they do mean something. But they don't mean everything.
August 8, 200323 yr Wow phlub, you spent that much time just to prove a guy who was being sarcastic wrong?
August 8, 200323 yr Actually WC he didn't seem sarcastic on the below .500 part. I knew the 55 yrs. old was sarcasm. But I was actually planning to make a thread on that stuff anyways tonight. But I'm glad Esko gave me a different way to do it. Nobody crosses my Pack and gets away with it! Though the Pack won't win the Super Bowl like I thought they might have last year, they should still go to the NFC Championship and lose to Tampa Bay. The Pack and Philadelphia are tied for 2nd best in the NFC as far as I see it.
August 8, 200323 yr Do stats and names mean nothing? They tell you what someone has been capable of, and give you an idea of what they can be capable of doing. The team basically added Seau for leadership, something this team really kinda lacked. They are supposedly meshing very well. That's what they need to do. This team is following a format that has won the Super Bowl for the past 3 years. Amazing Defense, slightly above average Offense. I guarentee you this team will compete with Tampa as the best D in football. But this team also has something those other teams didn't have. The NFL's leading rusher, who is supposed to be better than he was last year! Does all this mean nothing to you? The fact they have vet leadership the didn't have before? Talent at positions they didn't have before? PLEASE. dude, of course stats mean something. but they're not everything. we had a player have one of the best seasons in the leagues history last year (#34), we beat the eventual AFC champions, and then what happened in the final two games of the season against teams that didnt have any where near the talent we had? we choked. Seau is going to help, no doubt about it, he's going to help. but dont give me this stuff about his leadership ending our December swoons, because last time i checked the Chargers choked pretty badly the last two winters themselves. so your saying Zack Thomas and Jason Taylor arent leaders? im not saying we dont have the talent. ive been saying the opposite, we have the talent to win the Super Bowl. we had it last year, and we have even more this year. im just saying, dont look to much into stats with this team when its only August.
August 8, 200323 yr but dont give me this stuff about his leadership ending our December swoons, because last time i checked the Chargers choked pretty badly the last two winters themselves. Actually, our new found depth will end our December swoons. Depth we have lacked every one of the past 6 years. There is NO position we don't have depth at. so your saying Zack Thomas and Jason Taylor arent leaders? They are. But they're about it is what I'm saying. Ricky has emerged as a leader, becoming more opened and less shy. Not only that, but Junior Seau, Sammy Knight, and Jeff Zig--something were all the captains of their defenses last year. They are proven leaders.
August 9, 200323 yr zgoninna ius not that great, hes not even going to start. do you even know who he is? hell be 3rd string, behind bowens and chester. sammy knight is talented and proven, ans seau is a great leader but we didint need to upgrade the d. o-line is a pressing concern, mcknight cant catch 800 yards, oronde is weaker than ever, and to legitimate 800 yard guys wont get you anywhere. you need PLAYMAKERS. fiedler is fine, but grise is not "as good as fiedler" whered you get that? everyone says jay is light years ahead of him sage isint the answer im with phlub, they got to prove me they got balls. thats whayt they need, balls
August 9, 200323 yr im with phlub, they got to prove me they got balls. thats whayt they need, balls im the one that says they need to prove they got balls, phlub already has his mind made up. we got the talent, its not about that, you can have all the talent in the world. but you need to show you got the heart. depth is neccessary, but depth wasnt our problem against minnesota or new england now was it.? thats what im trying to tell wildcard, but he just comes back at me with all this blah blah about veteran leadership, #'s and all this other stuff. he doesnt get, or doesnt want to get what the real problem is. veteran leadership, #'s, depth is all great, but it dont mean s*** without heart.
August 9, 200323 yr Actually I have also said that you guys need to get balls. Marlins02 what do you mean I already have my mind made up? Do you mean I think that you guys will go 9-7/10-6 and make it no further then the Divisional Round? If so then yes I do, if not then tell me what you mean. But Wild Card you don't get it. More and more talent is always good. But has it occured to you that you guys haven't won a game in the playoffs with Wannstedt as Head Coach? That shows me that you guys don't need anymore veteran leadership, you need COACHING leadership. I don't care what you say about Turner or whoever else. Wannstedt is the cause of your problems. You don't get it Wild Card. Stats are good and all. But its the intangibles that you guys lack. The burning desire to win of a Brett Favre or Dan Marino. The Leadership of a Vince Lombardi or Bud Grant. You just don't get it man. Talent is nothing without good coaching. Look at the Redskins a few years ago. They were pathetic, because Turner wasn't that good of a Head Coach. Without good coaching talent means squat. Period. The Packers had the most talent last year and so did the Rams but the Packers were be-set by a bad run defense & and Injuries and the Rams were be-set by bad coaching and injuries. You need to understand this. You can point to all the numbers and stats and players if it makes you feel good. But the rest of us here in this debate don't seem to be convinced by that. Sure 9 Pro Bowlers on Defense and 1 Pro Bowler on Offense is 10 Pro Bowlers. Thats Impressive. Then why aren't those players in the Super Bowl every year? Head Coaching. If you guys had a Mariucci, Gruden, Sherman, Fisher, Shannahan, or Holmgren coaching that talent you'd be in the Super Bowl every year. But you have the worst Head Coach in all of pro football. Junior (who I know very well) will bring good leadership to your young players. But now the question I ask is what young players? Madison? Taylor? Thomas? Marion? Surtain? Bowens? Fiedler? Williams? Who on here will benefit from Seau's veteran leadership? Most of your guys on this team are in the 25-32 year old range. Theres very few young players that will benefit from this all, especially on defense. And Seau is merely a shell of his former self. Hes 3-4 steps slower then he was when I first met him at a family function with my cousin (who married Jr's cousin) And Griese is a cancer in the locker room. You'll find that out soon enough when you have Griese, Fiedler, Chambers, Turner, Thompson, and Wannstedt get into a shouting match on the sidelines. Griese won't stand for a backup job. He'll start pouting and pissin and moaning. Seau won't help your December slumps. He is only one man. And won't save you guys in December, especially since he was never really successful in December. Griese will only hurt you guys, having a little more talent then Fiedler, no brains and is a virus in the Locker Room. You guys have talent. But no good Head Coaching and no good NFL QB. But Fiedler wins and thats all you can ask, but still the guy isn't a true QB. (originally posted by Wild Card) There is NO position we don't have depth at. Offensive Line Wide Reciever Tight End
August 9, 200323 yr Actually I have said that you guys need to get balls. Marlins02 what do you mean I already have my mind made up? Do you mean I think that you guys will go 9-7/10-6 and make it no further then the Divisional Round? If so then yes I do, if not then tell me what you mean. But Wild Card you don't get it. More and more talent is always good. But has it occured to you that you guys haven't won a game in the playoffs with Wannstedt as Head Coach? That shows me that you guys don't need anymore veteran leadership, you need COACHING leadership. I don't care what you say about Turner or whoever else. Wannstedt is the cause of your problems. You don't get it Wild Card. Stats are good and all. But its the intangibles that you guys lack. The burning desire to win of a Brett Favre or Dan Marino. The Leadership of a Vince Lombardi or Bud Grant. You just don't get it man. Talent is nothing without good coaching. Look at the Redskins a few years ago. They were pathetic, because Turner wasn't that good of a Head Coach. Without good coaching talent means squat. Period. The Packers had the most talent last year and so did the Rams but the Packers were be-set by a bad run defense & and Injuries and the Rams were be-set by bad coaching and injuries. You need to understand this. You can point to all the numbers and stats and players if it makes you feel good. But the rest of us here in this debate don't seem to be convinced by that. Sure 9 Pro Bowlers on Defense and 1 Pro Bowler on Offense is 10 Pro Bowlers. Thats Impressive. Then why aren't those players in the Super Bowl every year? Head Coaching. If you guys had a Mariucci, Gruden, Sherman, Fisher, Shannahan, or Holmgren coaching that talent you'd be in the Super Bowl every year. But you have the worst Head Coach in all of pro football. Junior (who I know very well) will bring good leadership to your young players. But now the question I ask is what young players? Madison? Taylor? Thomas? Marion? Surtain? Bowens? Fiedler? Williams? Who on here will benefit from Seau's veteran leadership? Most of your guys on this team are in the 25-32 year old range. Theres very few young players that will benefit from this all, especially on defense. And Seau is merely a shell of his former self. Hes 3-4 steps slower then he was when I first met him at a family function with my cousin (who married Jr's cousin) And Griese is a cancer in the locker room. You'll find that out soon enough when you have Griese, Fiedler, Chambers, Turner, Thompson, and Wannstedt get into a shouting match on the sidelines. Griese won't stand for a backup job. He'll start pouting and pissin and moaning. Seau won't help your December slumps. He is only one man. And won't save you guys in December, especially since he was never really successful in December. Griese will only hurt you guys, having a little more talent then Fiedler, no brains and is a virus in the Locker Room. You guys have talent. But no good Head Coaching and no good NFL QB. But Fiedler wins and thats all you can ask, but still the guy isn't a true QB. thats pretty much what i meant, i dont remember you even acknowledging that this team has the talent to win 12-13 games and has a shot at the SuperBowl until this last post. about Wannsted in the playoffs, Wildcard game against the Colts in December 2000 (great game, heard while i was at Disney). Marriuci only won one game in the playoffs that i can think of which was last year, and that was a miracle game. also, please cut the NFL films John Facenda lines. its a message board, not NFL films
August 9, 200323 yr Mariucci went to the NFC Championship in his first year and lost to the Packers who in turn lost to the Broncos in the SB. Next year then Mariucci beat GB in the wild card round off the Young to Owens catch, then went on to lose to Atlanta. So "Mooch" can do it. And one win in the playoffs for Wanny. Thats still pathetic. How much losses does he have? And you guys do have talent to win 11-12 games a year, I have admitted that many, many times before. But what I meant was if you got a different coach you could go places. But with Wanny and Fiedler at QB it will always restrict you guys. Sorry the Facenda lines whose he? I only talk how I talk (if that makes sense).
August 9, 200323 yr Mariucci went to the NFC Championship in his first year and lost to the Packers who in turn lost to the Broncos in the SB. Next year then Mariucci beat GB in the wild card round off the Young to Owens catch, then went on to lose to Atlanta. So "Mooch" can do it. And one win in the playoffs for Wanny. Thats still pathetic. How much losses does he have? And you guys do have talent to win 11-12 games a year, I have admitted that many, many times before. But I don't remember saying you guys have a shot at the Super Bowl. Sorry the Facenda lines whose he? I only talk how I talk (if that makes sense). dude, please tell me youre kidding about Facenda, i probably misspelled it, but please tell me youre joking. about Marriucci, wasnt that just 3 and 4 years after winning it all under Seifert and before the cap really f***ed them up. think about this, in 6 years, 3 playoff wins, two of which were flatout miracles (sorry i didnt mention '99 playoff game, i couldnt watch it, i was having an amazingly bad day) and with a roster that mostly he inherited from a championship coach. we've had problems in December since Shula, its not just Wannstedt. the patriots game wasnt all wannstedt, that game shouldve never been that close for him to have to make any calls. in Miami he's 1-2 in the playoffs, in Chicago he was 1-1 in '95 when they lost to the eventual champion 49ers. overall record:2-3 Marruicci:3-4, its not that much better
August 9, 200323 yr now that i think about it, what exactly has Sherman done since he took over in Green Bay?
August 9, 200323 yr Right now, people are saying that rookie TE looks amazing blocking, and recieving wise is doing awesome. Just a player to look at.
August 10, 200323 yr (quote originally posted by marlins02now that i think about it, what exactly has Sherman done since he took over in Green Bay? What has he done? Marlin where have you been man?!?!?! Here is Green Bay Packers Head Coach/General Manager Mike Sherman's track record... - He is 2nd in Wins among all head coaches in the NFL since he's Head Coach in Green Bay. - 1 NFC North Division Championship - The best first 3 year winning percentage of any coach in PACKERS HISTORY. - Consecutive 12-4 seasons (something I don't recall the Dolphins EVER doing). - 2 Playoff Appearances - 3 Winning Seasons - No Losing Seasons - THE MOST WINS of ANY Coach in the NFL in the past 2 YEARS. That's not a bad list of accomplishments for Sherman. :thumbup :thumbup
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