July 25, 200521 yr watching sundays game, with Rich and Tommy saying that on Saturday, the entire NL East beat the NL West (except for Nats v 'Stros), I had the idea of, what would it be like if MLB created a new All-Star format by division... I would find it interesting cause you naturally hold a little grudge against your division rivals and now you'd have to trust them to win these Divisional All-Star Games...which I guess would be AL East v NL East, West v West, and Central v Central... Just for the fun of it...who would you guys select for Divisional All-Stars? I guess we'll need 8 Position Starters (9 for AL w/ DH)...ummm, 5 starting pitchers, 5 relievers, and 5 bench guys? If you wanna get detailed, give me a manager, pitching coach, and hitting coach...and after we get some teams filled out, maybe you guys could predict who'd win the games So lets see what you guys got... :thumbup for me so far, I'm thinking what I know best...NL East C- Paul Lo Duca 1B- Carlos Delgado 2B- Luis Castillo 3B- Chipper Jones SS- hmmm Alex Gonzalez/Jimmy Rollins/Rafael Furcal...good choices there LF- Miguel Cabrera CF- Andruw Jones RF- Bobby Abreu SP- AJ Burnett SP- Livan Hernandez SP- John Smoltz SP- Pedro Martinez SP- Dontrelle Willis RP- Todd Jones RP- Billy Wagner RP- Ryan Madsen (sp?, is he still going strong?) RP- Chad Cordero RP- Guillermo Mota Bench- Juan Pierre Bench- Jose Guillen Bench- Vinny Castilla Bench- Mike Cameron Bench- Jose Reyes Manager- Bobby Cox Pitching Coach- Mark Wiley just to get Cox away from his usual staff Hitting Coach- ?
July 25, 200521 yr 1B - Delgado 2B - Castillo SS - Rollins 3B - Wright LF - Cabrera CF - Andruw RF - Guillen C - Piazza SP - PEDRO SP - LIVAN SP - Dontrelle SP - Beckett SP - Smoltz CL - Chad Cordero
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza over LoDuca? why? 874003[/snapback] Piazza's a much better hitter and despite his noodle arm, is actually a very good defensive cather.
July 25, 200521 yr watching sundays game, with Rich and Tommy saying that on Saturday, the entire NL East beat the NL West (except for Nats v 'Stros), I had the idea of, what would it be like if MLB created a new All-Star format by division... I would find it interesting cause you naturally hold a little grudge against your division rivals and now you'd have to trust them to win these Divisional All-Star Games...which I guess would be AL East v NL East, West v West, and Central v Central... Just for the fun of it...who would you guys select for Divisional All-Stars? I guess we'll need 8 Position Starters (9 for AL w/ DH)...ummm, 5 starting pitchers, 5 relievers, and 5 bench guys? If you wanna get detailed, give me a manager, pitching coach, and hitting coach...and after we get some teams filled out, maybe you guys could predict who'd win the games So lets see what you guys got... :thumbup for me so far, I'm thinking what I know best...NL East C- Paul Lo Duca 1B- Carlos Delgado 2B- Luis Castillo 3B- Chipper Jones SS- hmmm Alex Gonzalez/Jimmy Rollins/Rafael Furcal...good choices there LF- Miguel Cabrera CF- Andruw Jones RF- Bobby Abreu SP- AJ Burnett SP- Livan Hernandez SP- John Smoltz SP- Pedro Martinez SP- Dontrelle Willis RP- Todd Jones RP- Billy Wagner RP- Ryan Madsen (sp?, is he still going strong?) RP- Chad Cordero RP- Guillermo Mota Bench- Juan Pierre Bench- Jose Guillen Bench- Vinny Castilla Bench- Mike Cameron Bench- Jose Reyes Manager- Bobby Cox Pitching Coach- Mark Wiley just to get Cox away from his usual staff Hitting Coach- ? 873938[/snapback] I wouldn't pick AJ ahead of Beckett, other than that your list is pretty decent
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza over LoDuca? why? 8 74003[/snapback] Piazza's a much better hitter and despite his noodle arm, is actually a very good defensive cather. 874008[/snapback] LoDuca Avg.- .301 OBP. - .357 Hits- 94 Runs- 35 Avg. with bases loaded- .400 Avg. with RISP- .286 Piazza Avg.- .267 OBP- .326 Hits- 80 Runs- 31 Avg with bases loaded- .167 Avg. with RISP- .143 I'm going to have to respectfully disagree
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza over LoDuca? why? 8 74003[/snapback] Piazza's a much better hitter and despite his noodle arm, is actually a very good defensive cather. 874008[/snapback] LoDuca Avg.- .301 OBP. - .357 Hits- 94 Runs- 35 Avg. with bases loaded- .400 Avg. with RISP- .286 Piazza Avg.- .267 OBP- .326 Hits- 80 Runs- 31 Avg with bases loaded- .167 Avg. with RISP- .143 I'm going to have to respectfully disagree 874018[/snapback] Piazza would get voted in over Duca anyways... its a popularity contest and sadly is not based on numbers which would give Lo Duca the start.
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza over LoDuca? why? 8 74003[/snapback] Piazza's a much better hitter and despite his noodle arm, is actually a very good defensive cather. 874008[/snapback] LoDuca Avg.- .301 OBP. - .357 Hits- 94 Runs- 35 Avg. with bases loaded- .400 Avg. with RISP- .286 Piazza Avg.- .267 OBP- .326 Hits- 80 Runs- 31 Avg with bases loaded- .167 Avg. with RISP- .143 I'm going to have to respectfully disagree 874018[/snapback] Awefully convenient you leave of HRs, RBIs, Doubles, SLG %, AND OPS (widely regarded as the most accurate projection of a batter's worth to the offense). And if you're going to try to attempt to post situational stats, try and pick the right stat. Piazza is hitting .243 w/RISP. And oh yeah, That's considered a poor first half for Piazza. In his prime Piazza shits all over LoDuca, and he's still better now.
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza over LoDuca? why? 8 74003[/snapback] Piazza's a much better hitter and despite his noodle arm, is actually a very good defensive cather. 874008[/snapback] LoDuca Avg.- .301 OBP. - .357 Hits- 94 Runs- 35 Avg. with bases loaded- .400 Avg. with RISP- .286 Piazza Avg.- .267 OBP- .326 Hits- 80 Runs- 31 Avg with bases loaded- .167 Avg. with RISP- .143 I'm going to have to respectfully disagree 874018[/snapback] Awefully convenient you leave of HRs, RBIs, Doubles, SLG %, AND OPS (widely regarded as the most accurate projection of a batter's worth to the offense). And if you're going to try to attempt to post situational stats, try and pick the right stat. Piazza is hitting .243 w/RISP. And oh yeah, That's considered a poor first half for Piazza. In his prime Piazza shits all over LoDuca, and he's still better now. 874021[/snapback] Actually your both wrong... Piazza is hitting .263 with RISP according to Yahoo Sports and ESPN.
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza over LoDuca? why? 8 74003[/snapback] Piazza's a much better hitter and despite his noodle arm, is actually a very good defensive cather. 874008[/snapback] LoDuca Avg.- .301 OBP. - .357 Hits- 94 Runs- 35 Avg. with bases loaded- .400 Avg. with RISP- .286 Piazza Avg.- .267 OBP- .326 Hits- 80 Runs- 31 Avg with bases loaded- .167 Avg. with RISP- .143 I'm going to have to respectfully disagree 874018[/snapback] Awefully convenient you leave of HRs, RBIs, Doubles, SLG %, AND OPS (widely regarded as the most accurate projection of a batter's worth to the offense). And if you're going to try to attempt to post situational stats, try and pick the right stat. Piazza is hitting .243 w/RISP. And oh yeah, That's considered a poor first half for Piazza. In his prime Piazza shits all over LoDuca, and he's still better now. 874021[/snapback] So your saying Piazza is having a better year than LoDuca? pass that ish over here I knew you were going to resort to saying that Piazza in his prime owns LoDuca...That's a typical Mets fans arguement for having a washed up catcher with a rubber arm. The Fact is Piazza's prime has passed a good 4 seasons ago. Your arguement is null. So Piazza has 3 more Doubles than LoDuca, and more HR's. big whoop I much rather have a quality player in LoDuca that will bat nearly 50 points higher than Piazza, gets on base, and come through in clutch situations more often than not... I wont even mention Piazza's inability to throw out runners, that's a whole other story in itself... Quite frankly, I dont think Piazza would be able to throw out Mo Vaughn stealing third...on a pitchout
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza's career as a full time catcher is over after this year, that should be a clue
July 25, 200521 yr I knew you were going to resort to saying that Piazza in his prime owns LoDuca...That's a typical Mets fans arguement? for having a washed up catcher with a rubber arm.? The Fact is Piazza's prime has passed a good 4 seasons ago.? Your arguement is null. I wasn't resorting to it, it was an emphasis on the argument. In fact I provided yyou with 5 or 6 statistical categories Piazza is leading LoDuca. So Piazza has 3 more Doubles than LoDuca, and more HR's. big whoop So LoDuca has 14 more hits, big whoop? Piazza's 3 more doubles and 8 more HRs give his team roughly 24 more total bases AND at least 8 more runs than LoDuca. So in the grand scheme of things, LoDuca's 3 more hits a month don't do nearly as much as Piazza's measly 3 doubles and 8 HRs. I much rather have a quality player in LoDuca that will bat nearly 50 points higher than Piazza, gets on base,? and come through in clutch situations more often than not... Apparently your math is off, LoDuca's hitting 30-some points higher AND Piazza's on a tear and bound to take out a sizable chunk of that. And LoDuca comes through in the clutch? He has 8 more ABs w/RISP yet they have the same amount of RBIs w/RISP. He may get hits, but they aren't driving in as many runs. I wont even mention Piazza's inability to throw out runners, that's a whole other story in itself...? Quite frankly, I dont think Piazza would be able to throw out Mo Vaughn stealing third...on a pitchout 874029[/snapback] Care to tell me who lead the NL in passed balls last year? There's more to being a cather than throwing runners out.
July 25, 200521 yr Piazza over LoDuca? why? 8 74003[/snapback] Piazza's a much better hitter and despite his noodle arm, is actually a very good defensive cather. 874008[/snapback] LoDuca Avg.- .301 OBP. - .357 Hits- 94 Runs- 35 Avg. with bases loaded- .400 Avg. with RISP- .286 Piazza Avg.- .267 OBP- .326 Hits- 80 Runs- 31 Avg with bases loaded- .167 Avg. with RISP- .143 I'm going to have to respectfully disagree 874018[/snapback] Awefully convenient you leave of HRs, RBIs, Doubles, SLG %, AND OPS (widely regarded as the most accurate projection of a batter's worth to the offense). And if you're going to try to attempt to post situational stats, try and pick the right stat. Piazza is hitting .243 w/RISP. And oh yeah, That's considered a poor first half for Piazza. In his prime Piazza shits all over LoDuca, and he's still better now. 874021[/snapback] So your saying Piazza is having a better year than LoDuca? pass that ish over here I knew you were going to resort to saying that Piazza in his prime owns LoDuca...That's a typical Mets fans arguement for having a washed up catcher with a rubber arm. The Fact is Piazza's prime has passed a good 4 seasons ago. Your arguement is null. So Piazza has 3 more Doubles than LoDuca, and more HR's. big whoop I much rather have a quality player in LoDuca that will bat nearly 50 points higher than Piazza, gets on base, and come through in clutch situations more often than not... I wont even mention Piazza's inability to throw out runners, that's a whole other story in itself... Quite frankly, I dont think Piazza would be able to throw out Mo Vaughn stealing third...on a pitchout 874029[/snapback] Well I think the "Who is having a better season" debate will have to wait until the season is over. Lo Duca is a first half hitter 315, but bad in the 2nd half .236. No question about who is better at throwing out baserunners... Lo Duca, but I wouldn't be bragging about his stats in that category, yes Lo Duca's Caught stealing % is higher (.272) to Piazza's (.116), but believe it or not more people run on Lo Duca (81 to Piazza's 69)... Piazza's has allowed 61 Stolen Bases, but Lo Duca has allowed 59 :o So lets wait until the end of the season to debate this, as of now though i'd say Lo Duca... but there is still plenty of baseball left to play.
July 25, 200521 yr Care to tell me who lead the NL in passed balls last year? There's more to being a cather than throwing runners out. Jason LaRue... And assuming Piazza actually played more than 50 games at C last year, he would've had about 12 PB.
July 25, 200521 yr Author wonderful...this turned into a Lo Duca or Piazza argument :thumbdown Bottom Line, Piazza probably has better career numbers, but Lo Duca is having a better year...FACT...But, if we keep with the All-Star concept, the NL East Team will need at least two catchers...so be cool, Piazza makes the team anyways, definitely over Liberthal, Schneider, and Estrada...so we're even... Now...anyone wanna get back to making some teams? Anyone wanna give a shot at other divisions?
July 25, 200521 yr Back to the main topic of the thread... Pitching Coach- Leo Mazzone Hitting Coach- Terry Pendleton Manager- Bobby Cox I dont mean to give the Bravos all this love, but their coaching staff is pretty sick. Leo is automatic. Pendleton is in by default, not a great set of hitting coaches in the east, but he's decent. You can make an arguement for Frank Robinson to manage but I rather have someone who's won the east 13 straight times, so give me Bobby Cox
July 25, 200521 yr C - Mike Piazza (Would be voted in :banghead ) 1B - Delgado 2B - Castillo SS - Rollins 3B - Wright OF - Miggy OF - A. Jones OF - C. Floyd DH - Bobby Abreu SP - Pedro Martinez SP - Dontrelle Willis SP - Livan Hernandez SP - A.J. Burnett SP - Brett Myers SP - John Patterson P - Billy Wagner P - Todd Jones P - Chad Cordero P - John Smoltz Bench - Paul Lo Duca Bench - Alex Gonzalez Bench - Jose Guillen Bench - Nick Johnson Bench - Chase Utley
July 25, 200521 yr Author I'm not as familiar with it as much as the East but I'm gonna give a crack at the NL West...help me out if I miss anything... C- Mike Matheny SF 1B- JT Snow SF 2B- Jeff Kent LAD 3B- Troy Glaus AZ SS- Cesar Izturis LAD LF- Luis Gonzalez AZ CF- Dave Roberts SD RF- Moises Alou SF SP- Jason Schmidt SF SP- Javier Vasquez AZ SP- Jake Peavy SD SP- Brad Penny LAD SP- Odalis Perez LAD RP- Scott Eyre SF RP- Akinori Otsuka SD RP- Yhency Brazoban LAD RP- Brian Fuentes COL RP- Trevor Hoffman SD Bench- Omar Vizquel SF Bench- Ramon Hernandez SD Bench- Todd Helton COL Bench- Shawn Green AZ Bench- Brian Giles SD Manager- Felipe Alou SF ...wow what a relatively weak division compared to the NL East... :shifty
July 25, 200521 yr Surprise... I agree with the Mets fan. Piazza is leading in OPS and is actually a better defender than LoDuca. LoDuca's arm simply can't put him over the top. Apparently being a Marlin can in some eyes though.
July 25, 200521 yr NL East 2B Castillo 1B Johnson RF Abreu DH Delgado LF Cabrera CF Jones C Piazza 3B Wright SS Rollins P Willis, Martinez, Beckett, Hernandez, Patterson, Smoltz, Myers, Majewski, Wagner, Jones, Cordero
July 25, 200521 yr LoDuca's arm simply can't put him over the top. 874152[/snapback] and apparently, neither can... -superior BA -better situational stats -better BB/K ratio -more hits -more runs -better OBP - Less SB allowed from behind the dish - More runners cut down - Less PB in 12 more games played than Piazza - Much better CS % But I rest my case, I dont want to digress any farther from the main point of the thread. Fact of the matter is I much rather have LoDuca my 05 starting catcher rather than Piazza.
July 25, 200521 yr Mike Piazza is the worst defensive catcher in the NL East, and maybe in all of baseball. This may not be evidenced by concrete numbers, but just watch the guy play, he looks helpless. Should have been in the AL 5 years ago so he could DH
July 25, 200521 yr You're cherrypicking offensive stats to avoid the major one, the one that has a higher coorelation with runs scored (OPS). Piazza blocks the plate better than LoDuca. Maybe that doesn't show up in the stats this year, but you won't have too many passed balls or wild pitchers with Piazza as you. That's what you want most from a catcher... defensively. Not to make costly errors.
July 25, 200521 yr OPS is overrated in my eyes... Even then, if you compare both of their OPS, theres not that big of a discrepancy. In my opinion OBP can more accurately determine the effectiveness of a player than SLG% can.
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