August 8, 200520 yr Here is a big problem I have with Jack. It's inning 11 and he has three men left in the pen. Jones, Mecir and De Los Santos. Jones can pitch 1-2 innings, Mecir can pitch 1 inning and De Los Santos is our long men that should take over come inning 14. This protects us but also allows us to throw our best pitchers NOW. The game is tied 3-3...who else throws their inferior pitchers first and their superior pitchers last? Because there could have been a save opportunity I can understand pitching Jones after Mota. My theory is that come the 9th inning I start with my best and work my way backwards. I would have gone approximately Jones 9th, Mota 10th/11th, Mecir 12th and De Los Santos all the way after that. This is how Jack manages..sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. I just don't understand it. I can't accept losing with De Los Santos when Jones and Mecir are still available.
August 8, 200520 yr Here is a big problem I have with Jack. It's inning 11 and he has three men left in the pen. Jones, Mecir and De Los Santos. Jones can pitch 1-2 innings, Mecir can pitch 1 inning and De Los Santos is our long men that should take over come inning 14. This protects us but also allows us to throw our best pitchers NOW. The game is tied 3-3...who else throws their inferior pitchers first and their superior pitchers last? Because there could have been a save opportunity I can understand pitching Jones and Mota. My theory is that come the 9th inning I start with my best and work my way backwards. I would have gone approximately Jones 9th, Mota 10th/11th, Mecir 12th and De Los Santos all the way after that. This is how Jack manages..sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. I just don't understand it. I can't accept losing with De Los Santos when Jones and Mecir are still available. 894731[/snapback] you forgot that there is another game starting in 30 minutes or so
August 8, 200520 yr Well, his strategy worked until the last inning. I would have done the same thing as you. However, the bottom line is we didn't score enough runs. I blame Lowell. He needs to start playing as well as his salary indicates. I am sorry, Miggy cannot be expected to keep carrying this team. He went after terrible pitches today not because he's off, but because he knows Lowell won't do a damn thing behind him. Lowell sucks.
August 8, 200520 yr Jack has nothing to do with it man. We cant even hit Scott DO-MAN!!? He had a 15 ERA at Coors Field. We only allowed 4 runs in 11 innings at Coors! NOT BAD. Mike Lowell is our freaking problem. Move CABRERA to 3rd and recall Hermida.
August 8, 200520 yr Author Here is a big problem I have with Jack. It's inning 11 and he has three men left in the pen. Jones, Mecir and De Los Santos. Jones can pitch 1-2 innings, Mecir can pitch 1 inning and De Los Santos is our long men that should take over come inning 14. This protects us but also allows us to throw our best pitchers NOW. The game is tied 3-3...who else throws their inferior pitchers first and their superior pitchers last? Because there could have been a save opportunity I can understand pitching Jones and Mota. My theory is that come the 9th inning I start with my best and work my way backwards. I would have gone approximately Jones 9th, Mota 10th/11th, Mecir 12th and De Los Santos all the way after that. This is how Jack manages..sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. I just don't understand it. I can't accept losing with De Los Santos when Jones and Mecir are still available. 894731[/snapback] you forgot that there is another game starting in 30 minutes or so 894737[/snapback] I didn't forget. Did you forget the object was also to win game # 1? Jones and Mecir could have pitched an inning. Certainly Jones. You saving Mecir for Game 2? Why is he going to pitch multiple innings of Valdez gets racked? Nope. That would be De Los Santos.
August 8, 200520 yr Jack has nothing to do with it man. We cant even hit Scott DO-MAN!!? He had a 15 ERA at Coors Field. We only allowed 4 runs in 11 innings at Coors! NOT BAD. Mike Lowell is our freaking problem. Move CABRERA to 3rd and recall Hermida. 894740[/snapback] Its not all Lowells fault look at JP he hasn't been doing his job. Our team revolves around JP and Lui getting on base. Its simple if JP doesn't get on we will barely score.
August 8, 200520 yr Author Well, his strategy worked until the last inning. I would have done the same thing as you. However, the bottom line is we didn't score enough runs. I blame Lowell. He needs to start playing as well as his salary indicates. I am sorry, Miggy cannot be expected to keep carrying this team. He went after terrible pitches today not because he's off, but because he knows Lowell won't do a damn thing behind him. Lowell sucks. 894738[/snapback] Agreed. The game should never have gotten to the 11th. I am not blaming McKeon for the loss....never said that. Just pointing out something he does that I disagree with.
August 8, 200520 yr Mike Lowell is our freaking problem. Move CABRERA to 3rd and recall Hermida. 894740[/snapback] bingo! worth a shot.
August 8, 200520 yr Author Jack has nothing to do with it man. We cant even hit Scott DO-MAN!!? He had a 15 ERA at Coors Field. We only allowed 4 runs in 11 innings at Coors! NOT BAD. Mike Lowell is our freaking problem. Move CABRERA to 3rd and recall Hermida. 894740[/snapback] Its not all Lowells fault look at JP he hasn't been doing his job. Our team revolves around JP and Lui getting on base. Its simple if JP doesn't get on we will barely score. 894749[/snapback] Aguila and Treanor dis a great job today. When everyone is healthy Aguila needs more playing time in CF if JP continues with his daily 0-4, 0-5. And as much as I love LoDuca, Treanor has been alright when he is in there...no reason to kill LoDuca. Give the man some more rest and allow Treanor some AB's. They were both solid today.
August 8, 200520 yr Valerio did fine enough to get two straight outs and get 0-2 on the third hitter. He made one mistake.
August 8, 200520 yr Here is a big problem I have with Jack. It's inning 11 and he has three men left in the pen. Jones, Mecir and De Los Santos. Jones can pitch 1-2 innings, Mecir can pitch 1 inning and De Los Santos is our long men that should take over come inning 14. This protects us but also allows us to throw our best pitchers NOW. The game is tied 3-3...who else throws their inferior pitchers first and their superior pitchers last? Because there could have been a save opportunity I can understand pitching Jones and Mota. My theory is that come the 9th inning I start with my best and work my way backwards. I would have gone approximately Jones 9th, Mota 10th/11th, Mecir 12th and De Los Santos all the way after that. This is how Jack manages..sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. I just don't understand it. I can't accept losing with De Los Santos when Jones and Mecir are still available. 894731[/snapback] you forgot that there is another game starting in 30 minutes or so 894737[/snapback] I didn't forget. Did you forget the object was also to win game # 1? Jones and Mecir could have pitched an inning. Certainly Jones. You saving Mecir for Game 2? Why is he going to pitch multiple innings of Valdez gets racked? Nope. That would be De Los Santos. 894744[/snapback] extras are very though to win on the road. bottom line, our offense sucked ass today and didn't get the job done. Our bullpen did, 5.2 innings and 2 ER. I take that any time. So Jack didn't do such a bad job
August 8, 200520 yr Here is a big problem I have with Jack. It's inning 11 and he has three men left in the pen. Jones, Mecir and De Los Santos. Jones can pitch 1-2 innings, Mecir can pitch 1 inning and De Los Santos is our long men that should take over come inning 14. This protects us but also allows us to throw our best pitchers NOW. The game is tied 3-3...who else throws their inferior pitchers first and their superior pitchers last? Because there could have been a save opportunity I can understand pitching Jones after Mota. My theory is that come the 9th inning I start with my best and work my way backwards. I would have gone approximately Jones 9th, Mota 10th/11th, Mecir 12th and De Los Santos all the way after that. This is how Jack manages..sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. I just don't understand it. I can't accept losing with De Los Santos when Jones and Mecir are still available. 894731[/snapback] Totally agree with you Stag. On the road, once you hit extra innings or late & tied, you pitch backwards. I'll never ever understand any other strategy. I'll give Jack a little leeway because there's another game to be played & you typically only get 6 innings from Valdez.
August 8, 200520 yr At this point, I don't care about who win or loses the next game. All I care is in what shape we will get out of Colorado. Our players are already tired and there are no robots. This week could get very ugly
August 8, 200520 yr Will a mod please lock this thread? This has been posted close to a hundred times since 2003. Thanks.
August 8, 200520 yr Although VDLS didn't do that badly of a job. The run aside, he had perhaps the best outing of the relievers. That pitch was on the outer-half and below the belt.
August 8, 200520 yr Author Valerio did fine enough to get two straight outs and get 0-2 on the third hitter. He made one mistake. 894766[/snapback] I am not blaming Jack for the loss. I am not blaming De Los Santos for the loss. It's like PH Aguila with the bases loaded in the 6th in a tie game instead of Lenny Harris because you like to save Lenny for an important AB late in the game. You may agree with that, but I don't. Here is my question. When would De Los Santos come out of this game? Would he bat too? Because when he comes out (unless we take the lead) Mecir or Jones have to go the rest of the way. Who was our long man after De Los Santos? Half my issue here is losing with an inferior pitcher. The other half is simply use of the pen and what happens when De Los Santos leaves the game if still tied?
August 8, 200520 yr If you use Mecir and Jones in this game, then what, are you "conceding" game 2 by using Valerio in relief?? No, he's a pitcher, on your roster, and you have to trust him. Championship teams need contributions from unexpected sources. You can't expect Jones/Mecir/Mota to do it every game, especially on days where you're playing two games.
August 8, 200520 yr Theres just such a big fustration, that our 3 top players are all out at the same time. We have some bad luck. And the worst part is it happens when we were getting close to the Wild Card lead.
August 8, 200520 yr Will a mod please lock this thread? This has been posted close to a hundred times since 2003. Thanks. 894782[/snapback] its 2005 and our bullpen is different. i think stag has some valid points. game one was a must win and the bullpen was not handled properly IMHO 894791[/snapback] What the hell does the management of the 'pen as Stag pointed out have to do with the players? There weren't good and bad pitchers on the 2003 and 2004 teams? They did not all share the same level of talent?
August 8, 200520 yr Author If you use Mecir and Jones in this game, then what, are you "conceding" game 2 by using Valerio in relief?? No, he's a pitcher, on your roster, and you have to trust him. Championship teams need contributions from unexpected sources. You can't expect Jones/Mecir/Mota to do it every game, especially on days where you're playing two games. 894803[/snapback] Penn, you are acting as if I am blaming DLS..I am not. But of the three remaining guys left he was the only one capable of throwing "long" relief. So why not first go with your short men and save De Los Santos who may very well be needed for long relief in Game 2. Too many people are coming to the defense of Jack and DLS...no need to. This is simply a strategy issue.
August 8, 200520 yr If you use Mecir and Jones in this game, then what, are you "conceding" game 2 by using Valerio in relief?? No, he's a pitcher, on your roster, and you have to trust him. Championship teams need contributions from unexpected sources. You can't expect Jones/Mecir/Mota to do it every game, especially on days where you're playing two games. 894803[/snapback] I'd like to think we stand a good chance of winning a 3-3 game in extras, perhaps more than Valdez vs. the somewhat better Kim.
August 8, 200520 yr If you use Mecir and Jones in this game, then what, are you "conceding" game 2 by using Valerio in relief?? No, he's a pitcher, on your roster, and you have to trust him. Championship teams need contributions from unexpected sources. You can't expect Jones/Mecir/Mota to do it every game, especially on days where you're playing two games. 894803[/snapback] Penn, you are acting as if I am blaming DLS..I am not. But of the three remaining guys left he was the only one capable of throwing "long" relief. So why not first go with your short men and save De Los Santos who may very well be needed for long relief in Game 2. Too many people are coming to the defense of Jack and DLS...no need to. This is simply a strategy issue. 894813[/snapback] I see what you are saying. On a day that wasn't a doubleheader, I think you'd be perfectly correct, and I think Jack might have done it that way. You have to think ahead to the other game. You want to avoid using your best pitchers twice in one day. If you do throw them for two innings, I'd imagine having the two innings be in the same game would be better than one inning, three hour break, one inning. Valerio was primed to go long relief. That's why they double switched for Treanor. Valerio was up 9th in the order for the next inning. You need to save some of your superior pitchers for game 2, or you are somewhat conceding game 2 by having Valdez backed up by Valerio and no one else.
August 8, 200520 yr In other news, Matt Treanor is the most dedicated defensive catcher I've seen in quite a while. I wish he hit better.
August 8, 200520 yr Author Will a mod please lock this thread? This has been posted close to a hundred times since 2003. Thanks. 894782[/snapback] its 2005 and our bullpen is different. i think stag has some valid points. game one was a must win and the bullpen was not handled properly IMHO 894791[/snapback] OMG! Not only did you miss the sarcasm, but what the hell does the management of the 'pen as Stag pointed out have to do with the players? There weren't good and bad pitchers on the 2003 and 2004 teams? They did not all share the same level of talent? Castrate yourself. Seriously. Or just stop posting here if you're not going to put any thought into your posts. 894811[/snapback] dude your a f***in jerk. is it really necessary to insult people if they make a post you dont agree with. and belittling people including me bro? sorry for missing YOUR sarcasm on a message board. why dont you contribute something better some some smartass sarcasm? im just trying to join into the convo so piss the f*** off! your the one crying to lock a topic because it was talked about in 2003 thus my 2005 comment. and dude castrate myself? grow the f up. last i checked we are both marlins fans ffs. sorry if i insulted anyone with my comments as i am usually a very nice person online but this is rediculous 894823[/snapback] :notworthy We lose a game. A fan has an issue. It's debated. What a GREAT use for a forum. Some people have a difficult time accepting a variety of opinions. That's why Fox News and Air America have a loyal audience. The day a forum such as this one is simply a cheerleading message board is the day those 2-3 fans can be better served by communicatingthrough IM's
August 8, 200520 yr It's not we disagree. It's that you did not put any thought into your post. Sorry I blew up on you, but only because this has been a continuous problem with you. And others, over the past few months this forum has been terrible because of posts such as yours. Again... what the hell does the management of the 'pen as Stag pointed out have to do with the players? There weren't good and bad pitchers on the 2003 and 2004 teams? They did not all share the same level of talent? Learn to read. 894836[/snapback] ***edited by jonnyf1shfan to show respect to the board*** 894852[/snapback] I read what you wrote before, and I agree with you. I agree that we all ought to respect one another. However, I will agree that you ought to be castrated. :plain JK
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