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Senator Rick Santorum is criticizing the government's emergency response to hurricane Katrina victims. But he's also criticizing the ones who chose to ride out the storm. "I mean, you have people who don't heed those warnings and then put people at risk as a result of not heeding those warnings. There may be a need to look at tougher penalties on those who decide to ride it out and understand that there are consequences to not leaving."

 

I guess death is not harsh enough? Good luck trying to prosecute the dead Ricky boy.

 

click for video

 

May I point out this is the same man who bashes the NWS basically saying they don't do a good job. He wants to rid us of the NWS. He wants us to have to pay for our weather information a second time , only so we are made to flee when it is deemed worthy.

 

U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., in April introduced the National Weather Services Duties Act of 2005 (S.786), a bill that would impose restrictions on how the NWS makes its data available to the public... While S.786 hasn't seen broad support, it does appear to have made NOAA more eager to consider the concerns of the companies commercializing its data.

Rick Santorum is a total and unquestionable idiot.

You think what he said was stupid, but the "tragedy is bush's fault" crew is not stupid? Take off the lenses for a second. The people who chose to ride out thje storm and not heed the warnings are responsible for what happened to them. It isnt bush's fault that people chose to stay behind. Punishing them for that is stupid though.

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but the "tragedy is bush's fault" crew is not stupid?

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So you saying Bush did the right thing by cutting funding to keep NO safe by 50% in some cases? He also hand picked the leader of FEMA. Nor did he open up closed army bases before the storm to house those who had no way to leave.

 

You're right Bush has no fault what so ever. :plain

You think what he said was stupid, but the "tragedy is bush's fault" crew is not stupid? Take off the lenses for a second. The people who chose to ride out thje storm and not heed the warnings are responsible for what happened to them. It isnt bush's fault that people chose to stay behind. Punishing them for that is stupid though.

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The difference is that one is a specific statement(Santorum) and much easier to call foolish whereas the other one is a general lumping of all the Bush critisism in order to discredit viable ones. Do I think Bush is responsible for poor people and black people dying? Of course not. Do I think he did good things? Yes, Ive posted that. But do I think its ok to give him a free pass when he so easily takes credit for crisis management? Or to ignore the specific actions that lead to specific vulnerability? No, but I guess thats the lenses talking.

You think what he said was stupid, but the "tragedy is bush's fault" crew is not stupid? Take off the lenses for a second. The people who chose to ride out thje storm and not heed the warnings are responsible for what happened to them. It isnt bush's fault that people chose to stay behind. Punishing them for that is stupid though.

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Just to throw this out for consideration (since Santorum was oblivious to it). There were some who were unable to evacuate - either because their health prevented them from travelling, or they didn't have the means to leave (or anywhere to go).

 

Santorum is nothing more than an ultraconservative wingnut. I'm not sure if it was discussed here, he has blamed the church scandal on the "liberal culture" in Boston - of course he overlooked that it was a national problem. But hey, fingerpointing is fair game when it's done by the right I guess.

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In Santorum's defense to the post above, he did clarify his statements yesterday saying he wouldn't punish those who couldn't leave, or couldn't afford to leave, he didn't offer what treshold he decided would be having enough to be able to leave. Not that I am saying that makes it better, just saying he did make mention of those who couldn't leave... after a couple days, probably after getting advice.

I don't feel bad for those who COULD leave but didnt. Those who stayed behind simply to defend their house are retarded.

We're not talking about a few stubborn rich families in Key West who always refuse to evacuate when a big hurricane is coming. This is massive numbers of people in one of the poorest big cities in the nation, with a high category hurricane strike imminent, many likely with no transportation. (and even those who did, can you imagine the gas shortages there? The gas stations in South Florida run out of gas every time there's a stiff breeze & people start to panic)

 

The state and local governments don't seem to have been remotely ready for this kind of tragedy. Yet people have known for DECADES that this was a likely result of a major hurricane hitting New Orleans.

 

I don't solely blame George Bush or the Administration certainly. But they do SHARE in the blame of poor response and poor planning. It's another case of refusing to take accountability. It's always the other guy's fault.

 

...and yes Santorum is a moron.

Legacy your ignorance towards the poor is clearly seen in that post. Do you not think that some(if not most) of those poor and black folk didint have a car, the means, the money, or the family some where else? We all dont drive Range Rovers and drink Evian water.

Legacy your ignorance towards the poor is clearly seen in that post. Do you not think that some(if not most) of those poor and black folk didint have a car, the means, the money, or the family some where else? We all dont drive Range Rovers and drink Evian water.

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Let me first address F_m's post. I'm in total agreement to your response, and I apologize for the generalist use of the lenses statement.

 

Furthermore Fiumarlin, your post above is perhaps one of the stupidest things I have ever read.

I'm going to assume first of all that your were in miami during andrew. I'm also going to assume you were in a nonevacuation zone. My childhood home, (in which ym family still lives, although i moved out) has been flooded on three seperate occasions cuasing thousands in damage. We couldnt move out however b/c we didnt have the money. Let me clarify my statenment b/c apparently your lack of understanding is incredible. The people who CHOSE to stay behind in NO are responsible for whatever happened to them. Period. Period. Period. If they couldnt get out, even though they tried whos fault is it? The local govt.

 

Now whose fault was it that some people tried to shoot down rescue helicopters, shot at police and rescue workers, looted from their own stores etc. Apparently in your elitist enclosed orb you've forgotten about realism and logic. As ive posted before, no one in my household has ever made more than 30,000 a year while i was growing up. Is it my fault that my father felt it was better to learn a trade and work than to rely completely on govt aid? When he left what did my mother do? She got a job that payed her about 100 dollars a week, never did anyone rely on the govt. So dont tell me that i know nothing about the poor as you sit in your nice house, sipping a martini, with your nice car in your elitist fantasy land. If you dont know me dont make idiotic comments attacking me personally, b/c you dont know my history.

 

Lets argue facts....its not bush's fault that people in NO are poor, its his fault that the local responses were terrible, its his fault stores got looted and people got attacked and raped.

 

What is his fault? Mismanagement of federal bureaucracy (FEMA mostly). Which isnt directly his fault but the man at the top is always responsible.

You make it seem like these people chose to stay there, like they even had a choice to leave or stay to begin with. When you DONT HAVE A CAR OR MONEY how the hell can you get out?

 

Although I blame some on Bush for crappy handling of the Guard and Fema, and appointing two complete nobodies to be their leaders, you are right about the local gvt. Fault should also be put on local officials like Ray Nagin for not issuing a mandatory evacuatiopn earlier.

The problem is theres no proof that the large majority of people could not leave but wanted to. Theres people even now that refuse to leave and are being taken out by force.

Yeah I need proof to know that these poor people didint have cars or money, I mean they only lived in what, one of the poorest neighborhoods in America? 98% black? 40% making less than 8,000 a year?

 

*rolleyes*

Yeah I need proof to know that these poor people didint have cars or money, I mean they only lived in what, one of the poorest neighborhoods in America? 98% black? 40% making less than 8,000 a year?

 

*rolleyes*

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You've apparently never lived in a poor neighborhood before. I'm not aware of the efficiency of public transportation in new orleans. But in miami most people have cars. You;ve obviously never lived in a poor neighborhood, but ive lived and worked in some and most people have cars. Hell even the illegal immigrants in miami buy clunkers to get around b/c u have to. Sorry buddy but you're argument is weak. A car isnt the luxury that it once was. Poor doesnt automatically equal no car. I'll agree they have little money but you do need to show proof that poor people in new orleans for the most part dont own or have access to cars or transportation. By the way did NO have a state or county sponsored car ownership program like some other states have? Trying to make an argument by using 'duh' as the meat of the argument is weak.

Regarding the ablility of people to evacuate the NO area...

 

-From what I saw on TV almost all major roads and highways in the New Orleans area were bumper to bumper and IF you were able to get a car and had enough gas to get far enough out of the city to find shelter, it would have taken a very long time. Also, for people living with young children, large families, or for those with older or sick relatives, the prospect of having to pile into a car (if you had one) might be enough of a reason to try to hunker down in your home the best you could and try to take care of each other.

 

And regarding any possible idea that public transportation might be a useful service for those trying to evactuate New Orleans, I can only assume that any sort of organized public bus service was non-existant. Thousands of people exavuating an urban area and bumper-to-bumper traffic for miles are not exactly circumstances in which public transportation runs very smoothly. Any public transportation was probably running between points in New Orleans, not areas outside of the city where shelter could have been accessible.

 

What should have happened-

A large number of busses should have been stationed across the city in neighborhoods where access to transportation would have been more difficult. The busses should have taken people to shelters outside of the city (maybe at army bases as someone suggested) or to safer areas in or around the city.

 

Although the above plan + all the other disaster procedures are hard to pull off and have been thought about in hindsight, THERE IS A GOVT. AGENCY WHOSE JOB AND RESPONSIBILITY TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS TO THINK OF WAYS TO DEAL WITH THESE TYPES OF DISASTERS, why didn't they have a well thought out plan ready to go???? Bush's excuse that "It surprised everyone that the levees broke" is pathetic to me. People have been saying for a long time that the levees might not be able to withstand a stong storm, and a scenario should have been drawn out for what to do if the levees broke.

As far as I'm concerned, the federal government failed the people of New Orleans specifically. They had plenty of warning to get as many people out as they could. After the storm passed, they should already have had people mobilized to head into the damaged areas.

The people who stayed behind have already been punished. :plain

Mordy's explanation seems rather accurate as to the extent of blame to be placed on FEMA, The 'poor people cant afford cars to get out' argument was weak at best. I'll accept that explanation and concede for now.

Yeah I need proof to know that these poor people didint have cars or money, I mean they only lived in what, one of the poorest neighborhoods in America? 98% black? 40% making less than 8,000 a year?

 

*rolleyes*

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link

 

''Who should expect a little town in Louisiana with 400,000 people, one-third of the town living below the poverty level, 100,000 people using public transportation every day, limited healthcare -- who should expect them to lead in a national disaster?" asked the City Council president, Oliver Thomas. ''That's ludicrous."

 

I'll assume if they're taking public transportation daily - they won't have vehicles of their own.

Yeah I need proof to know that these poor people didint have cars or money, I mean they only lived in what, one of the poorest neighborhoods in America? 98% black? 40% making less than 8,000 a year?

 

*rolleyes*

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link

 

''Who should expect a little town in Louisiana with 400,000 people, one-third of the town living below the poverty level, 100,000 people using public transportation every day, limited healthcare -- who should expect them to lead in a national disaster?" asked the City Council president, Oliver Thomas. ''That's ludicrous."

 

I'll assume if they're taking public transportation daily - they won't have vehicles of their own.

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Reaks of local govt failure

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