The population of Clark County has tripled to 1.8 million the past 20 years

The median income in Miami is underestimated because the city has such a large underground economy (because of the large Latin American population).

The median income in Miami is underestimated because the city has such a large underground economy (because of the large Latin American population).

 

 

and there is no underground drug market in vegas.

 

 

i mean since we want to say that vegas is nothing more than gambling and tourism...where there is gambling there is drug use...or so says the stereotypes.

The median income in Miami is underestimated because the city has such a large underground economy (because of the large Latin American population).

 

 

and there is no underground drug market in vegas.

 

 

i mean since we want to say that vegas is nothing more than gambling and tourism...where there is gambling there is drug use...or so says the stereotypes.

 

 

Uh huh.

 

It seems like you assumed I was talking about "Latin Americans bringing drugs to Miami." I wasn't. I was talking about an underground economy - unreported income from legitimate businesses (I personally know people do this because it's how it's done in many countries) or businesses that are not actually registered. Everything is done in cash and there is virtually no way of reporting it. There were various studies done showing that Hialeah, which is supposed to be the poorest city in the entire country, is actually relatively prosperous once you start accounting for the underground economy.

 

All cities have underground economies, but Miami's is particularly strong. The strongest in the country. That's all I was saying. I wasn't talking about the money from the "Kingpins." Sheesh. :lol

Las Vegas ranks as the nation's 48th largest TV market with 651,110 TV households, according to Nielsen Media Research. That's more than Buffalo, behind Oklahoma City.

 

The problem? Many potential fans are either seasonal residents who flee town during the summer heat or night-shift workers unable to attend evening games.

 

enough said. I don't see how long term Vegas would be better than South Florida.

38 million visitors per year.

Nobody goes to Vegas to watch baseball. People go for the legal gambling and the legal prostitute ass, not to watch a baseball game.

:lolup

The median income in Miami is underestimated because the city has such a large underground economy (because of the large Latin American population).

 

 

and there is no underground drug market in vegas.

 

 

i mean since we want to say that vegas is nothing more than gambling and tourism...where there is gambling there is drug use...or so says the stereotypes.

 

 

Uh huh.

 

It seems like you assumed I was talking about "Latin Americans bringing drugs to Miami." I wasn't. I was talking about an underground economy - unreported income from legitimate businesses (I personally know people do this because it's how it's done in many countries) or businesses that are not actually registered. Everything is done in cash and there is virtually no way of reporting it. There were various studies done showing that Hialeah, which is supposed to be the poorest city in the entire country, is actually relatively prosperous once you start accounting for the underground economy.

 

All cities have underground economies, but Miami's is particularly strong. The strongest in the country. That's all I was saying. I wasn't talking about the money from the "Kingpins." Sheesh. :lol

 

actually i wasnt.

 

i was talking about an underground economy in general. i am fully aware that there are probably many low paying underground jobs in Miami due to the many illegals there. I've seen that in San Antonio also.

 

Just that in Vegas the largest aspect of the underground economy there is drugs.

 

That's what happens when we assume.

Las Vegas ranks as the nation's 48th largest TV market with 651,110 TV households, according to Nielsen Media Research. That's more than Buffalo, behind Oklahoma City.

 

The problem? Many potential fans are either seasonal residents who flee town during the summer heat or night-shift workers unable to attend evening games.

 

enough said. I don't see how long term Vegas would be better than South Florida.

38 million visitors per year.

Nobody goes to Vegas to watch baseball. People go for the legal gambling and the legal prostitute ass, not to watch a baseball game.

If you had a clue about anything, you'd realize that the county that Las Vegas is in made prostitution illegal, so you have to leave the county to get your junk licked for money. My point with the 38 million visitors is that there's a decent chance that fans of the visiting team will come in when they play in Vegas. Let's assume that two and a half percent of visitors go to games. That's still damn near 1 million people going to games (and we all know that locals and such would go). Also, people don't go to baseball games in Las Vegas because no one gives a damn about AAA, but of course you know that because you're very thorough.

The median income in Miami is underestimated because the city has such a large underground economy (because of the large Latin American population).

 

 

and there is no underground drug market in vegas.

 

 

i mean since we want to say that vegas is nothing more than gambling and tourism...where there is gambling there is drug use...or so says the stereotypes.

 

 

Uh huh.

 

It seems like you assumed I was talking about "Latin Americans bringing drugs to Miami." I wasn't. I was talking about an underground economy - unreported income from legitimate businesses (I personally know people do this because it's how it's done in many countries) or businesses that are not actually registered. Everything is done in cash and there is virtually no way of reporting it. There were various studies done showing that Hialeah, which is supposed to be the poorest city in the entire country, is actually relatively prosperous once you start accounting for the underground economy.

 

All cities have underground economies, but Miami's is particularly strong. The strongest in the country. That's all I was saying. I wasn't talking about the money from the "Kingpins." Sheesh. :lol

 

actually i wasnt.

 

i was talking about an underground economy in general. i am fully aware that there are probably many low paying underground jobs in Miami due to the many illegals there. I've seen that in San Antonio also.

 

Just that in Vegas the largest aspect of the underground economy there is drugs.

 

That's what happens when we assume.

 

 

Well, I don't want to get into a debate about which city has more underground drug money because it's not something I am proud of... but come on, it's Miami. Tons of drugs come through this city, although it has been cleaned up some in recent years.

 

Actually, about the underground jobs in Miami, it's not just low paying jobs. Lots of professionals from Latin America also engage in this - they provide professional services even though they are not licensed and get paid in cash. The cash they make is small relative to what other professionals make, but it's not "low paying." There are tons of foreign trained dentists and doctors practicing their respective professions without a license in Miami and they make good money. That's the difference between the Latin immigrants in other parts of the country and Miami - the ones in Miami are much better educated and more well off.

and still illegal.

 

 

and for that i despise them.

Anyone know how many visitors Miami-Dade county gets every year?

Anyone know how many visitors Miami-Dade county gets every year?

 

Not nearly as many.

 

Orlando and Vegas pwn it to the sky.

 

Wikipedia said 35 million people use the Miami Airport so I'd guess it gets around that number of tourists.

and still illegal.

 

 

No, not most of them. Some, yes.

 

and for that i despise them.

 

 

 

Good thing you're not living in Miami. :thumbup

 

 

Anyone know how many visitors Miami-Dade county gets every year?

 

Not nearly as many.

 

Orlando and Vegas pwn it to the sky.

 

Perhaps, but if the county still gets 15 million, for example, it doesn't mean that getting 38 million will make attendance that much better. Either way, a ton of people are visiting.

Las Vegas ranks as the nation's 48th largest TV market with 651,110 TV households, according to Nielsen Media Research. That's more than Buffalo, behind Oklahoma City.

 

The problem? Many potential fans are either seasonal residents who flee town during the summer heat or night-shift workers unable to attend evening games.

 

enough said. I don't see how long term Vegas would be better than South Florida.

38 million visitors per year.

Nobody goes to Vegas to watch baseball. People go for the legal gambling and the legal prostitute ass, not to watch a baseball game.

If you had a clue about anything, you'd realize that the county that Las Vegas is in made prostitution illegal, so you have to leave the county to get your junk licked for money. My point with the 38 million visitors is that there's a decent chance that fans of the visiting team will come in when they play in Vegas. Let's assume that two and a half percent of visitors go to games. That's still damn near 1 million people going to games (and we all know that locals and such would go). Also, people don't go to baseball games in Las Vegas because no one gives a damn about AAA, but of course you know that because you're very thorough.

Well thanks for enlightening me about the status of prostitution in Vegas, it seems like you have been keeping up with it. I guess my background knowledge about Vegas needed some upgrading to do. Still, even if prostitution is not around anymore in vegas :shifty the main attraction will still be the casinos. It takes time to build up a franchise, and I don't think that tourists will help them do that. I'm sorry, but I'm not sold on the idea.

Las Vegas ranks as the nation's 48th largest TV market with 651,110 TV households, according to Nielsen Media Research. That's more than Buffalo, behind Oklahoma City.

 

The problem? Many potential fans are either seasonal residents who flee town during the summer heat or night-shift workers unable to attend evening games.

 

enough said. I don't see how long term Vegas would be better than South Florida.

38 million visitors per year.

Nobody goes to Vegas to watch baseball. People go for the legal gambling and the legal prostitute ass, not to watch a baseball game.

If you had a clue about anything, you'd realize that the county that Las Vegas is in made prostitution illegal, so you have to leave the county to get your junk licked for money. My point with the 38 million visitors is that there's a decent chance that fans of the visiting team will come in when they play in Vegas. Let's assume that two and a half percent of visitors go to games. That's still damn near 1 million people going to games (and we all know that locals and such would go). Also, people don't go to baseball games in Las Vegas because no one gives a damn about AAA, but of course you know that because you're very thorough.

Well thanks for enlightening me about the status of prostitution in Vegas, it seems like you have been keeping up with it. I guess my background knowledge about Vegas needed some upgrading to do. Still, even if prostitution is not around anymore in vegas :shifty the main attraction will still be the casinos. It takes time to build up a franchise, and I don't think that tourists will help them do that. I'm sorry, but I'm not sold on the idea.

Wow, you really don't get it, do you? The whole point I was making is that the visitors would go to the casinos, see the shows, eat the buffets, enjoy some adult entertainment, whatever, but there's a decent likelihood they'd go at a time so they could see their favorite team play against the Vegas Gamblers. I mean, baseball is conveniently in the middle of summer and people tend to go on vacations in the summer...

Or they could just see their favorite team in any one of the 29 other MLB ballparks or on TV. The Mets, Cubs and Phillies will visit Las Vegas once a season, the Yankees and Red Sox every 5 years. Not the best plan. But let's say you have a sufficient number of Dodgers fans in Boston or Seattle or ruralsville USA, who have the disposable income to afford such a trip you suggest. There's a lot of other things that go into their decision of when to take a vacation. When their favorite team is playing the Gamblers is not going to be on the radar. OK, maybe a few. But those few can't overcome poor attendance and broadcast rights contracts due to poor local support, which is a given with a transplant population surrounded by other entertainment options with no history of supporting its local sports teams and typically working during the time the games will be played. It's been hard enough finding those willing to taker for a team a franchise doomed to organizational losses such as the Marlins. Who would be willing to invest in such a venture as the Gamblers that would need subsidies to stay out of the red so desperately that IT IS a premise of the Mayor's grand plan!?! Like I said, once you start exploring the details of the rosy picture the Mayor's PR team has been promoting, this is a terrible idea for Las Vegas, MLB and every one involved. The key for Las Vegas, MLB, the Marlins and others, of course, is not to ask those questions. Otherwise they would lose a bargaining chip. You can't play without chips.

Las Vegas ranks as the nation's 48th largest TV market with 651,110 TV households, according to Nielsen Media Research. That's more than Buffalo, behind Oklahoma City.

 

The problem? Many potential fans are either seasonal residents who flee town during the summer heat or night-shift workers unable to attend evening games.

 

enough said. I don't see how long term Vegas would be better than South Florida.

38 million visitors per year.

Nobody goes to Vegas to watch baseball. People go for the legal gambling and the legal prostitute ass, not to watch a baseball game.

If you had a clue about anything, you'd realize that the county that Las Vegas is in made prostitution illegal, so you have to leave the county to get your junk licked for money. My point with the 38 million visitors is that there's a decent chance that fans of the visiting team will come in when they play in Vegas. Let's assume that two and a half percent of visitors go to games. That's still damn near 1 million people going to games (and we all know that locals and such would go). Also, people don't go to baseball games in Las Vegas because no one gives a damn about AAA, but of course you know that because you're very thorough.

Well thanks for enlightening me about the status of prostitution in Vegas, it seems like you have been keeping up with it. I guess my background knowledge about Vegas needed some upgrading to do. Still, even if prostitution is not around anymore in vegas :shifty the main attraction will still be the casinos. It takes time to build up a franchise, and I don't think that tourists will help them do that. I'm sorry, but I'm not sold on the idea.

Wow, you really don't get it, do you? The whole point I was making is that the visitors would go to the casinos, see the shows, eat the buffets, enjoy some adult entertainment, whatever, but there's a decent likelihood they'd go at a time so they could see their favorite team play against the Vegas Gamblers. I mean, baseball is conveniently in the middle of summer and people tend to go on vacations in the summer...

I do get it, I'm just not sold on the idea. Just as the possibility of some of those tourists going to the games, there is a high chance that most of the visitors will have allegiances to the other baseball teams like rferry said, or simply that they are not interested in baseball. I do understand the point you are making, but I'm just not so sure that it will work.

Anyone know how many visitors Miami-Dade county gets every year?

 

Not nearly as many.

 

Orlando and Vegas pwn it to the sky.

 

Wikipedia said 35 million people use the Miami Airport so I'd guess it gets around that number of tourists.

 

Let's be more conservative - let's say $25 million. Not much less than Vegas.

 

Let's be real people, when you visit most cities you don't decide to go to baseball games. There are only a few places that you might go out of your way to watch a baseball game - Chicago (Wrigley), Boston, and perhaps New York (Yankee stadium). I've been to Philly numerous times, to Houston, and to Atlanta during the summer and I never even thought about going to a game (unless the Fish were playing there). And this is coming from a huge baseball fan.

 

Also, you have to remember that a good 25% of all visitors to Vegas are from abroad - most of them don't give a rat's ass about baseball.

you also have to remember that the casinos themselves would buy up a large portion of tickets and use them in various promotions and what not.

 

you have to understand a few points. las vegas is not all about tourism. there are more and more people making their home there everyday and there are many people with high disposable incomes coming to town also to work in various fields. while the overall numbers are not amazing right now, you have to realize a few things

 

a) population growth

 

b) immense marketing and promotional opportunities

 

c) more disposable income

 

sometimes you have to think outside the box and take a chance. if this was the first talk about any of this then thats one thing. south florida has had chance after chance to build a stadium for this franchise. hell mr loria offered to foot half the bill.

 

and regarding the giants...it wasnt as much of a fully privately funded stadium as you are lead to believe. there was a 30 million difference, the politicos expected the marlins to contribute this entire amount, instead of sitting down and saying....look we are this close, lets all hammer something out and get it done.

 

bottom line. miami didnt care. game over.

I think having a baseball team in Las Vegas is a horrible idea.

LOL

 

And why would the casinos buy a bunch of tickets for promotions? So that people go to baseball games instead of spending their time and money on gambling? Sure, that's the idea. "Let's get people to gamble more by not taking them to the casino! Let's take them somewhere else and have them spend money on other stuff!" laughable

 

Corporations, law firms, and other business would do this to wine and dine their clients. This serves a purpose: create goodwill so they end up making business deals. So, the casinos might still buy some tickets, but only the same way that a corporation would... they wouldn't buy like thousands of tickets to give away or even a few luxury box seats for customers that spend a lot of money. If they wanted to wine and dine their high rollers they just get them hookers and booze.

i didnt say a promotion as in for free....

 

as part of various vacation packages, much like they include various other tickets to various attractions and shows in a package deal.

you have to understand a few points. las vegas is not all about tourism. there are more and more people making their home there everyday and there are many people with high disposable incomes coming to town also to work in various fields. while the overall numbers are not amazing right now, you have to realize a few things

 

a) population growth

 

b) immense marketing and promotional opportunities

 

c) more disposable income

 

sometimes you have to think outside the box and take a chance. if this was the first talk about any of this then thats one thing. south florida has had chance after chance to build a stadium for this franchise. hell mr loria offered to foot half the bill.

 

and regarding the giants...it wasnt as much of a fully privately funded stadium as you are lead to believe. there was a 30 million difference, the politicos expected the marlins to contribute this entire amount, instead of sitting down and saying....look we are this close, lets all hammer something out and get it done.

 

bottom line. miami didnt care. game over.

 

 

 

You could be right about these things, but you could say the same thing about Miami. I know Vegas is growing very quickly, but the Marlins market includes a population of about 5 million people (Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties). It's going to take about another 20-30 years for Vegas to reach 5 million people. And, believe it or not, So. Florida is also growing very quickly, so by that time So. Floria will probably have about 7 million people.

 

Somehow you think Vegas has more marketing and promotional opportunities than Miami? Most of the major multinational companies have their Latin American headquarters in Miami. Miami has the most international banks out of all cities in the whole country. People with money from all over the world are moving and buying property in So. Florida. Many more people live in Miami part time - investors from Europe and Latin America and just plain people with money. It's an entertainment center - Spanish television, Spanish music industry, mainstream music and television industry, etc. You make it sound like Vegas blows Miami out of the water. You have to remember that Miami is one of the major cities in the country and is quickly becoming a powerhouse. Within 20 years (or perhaps now) Miami will be one of the big three - New York, LA, and Miami. So, in terms of potential, there is no match here. Miami wins hands down. The problem, of course, is that they don't have a stadium. But bottom line is that this city has more potential - they just have to work very hard to get the stadium deal done so they can exploit that potential.

 

Oh, and another thing, Miami is a city inhabitated by people from baseball crazy countries - Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, and Venezuela (Marlins are already the most popular team in Venezuela). If the Marlins did a better job of marketing the team they would get more baseball crazed fans in the stadium.

 

i didnt say a promotion as in for free....

 

as part of various vacation packages, much like they include various other tickets to various attractions and shows in a package deal.

 

 

the attractions and shows typically take place in their own casinos.

bottom line, things havent worked in miami.

 

 

period

 

 

 

you have to understand a few points. las vegas is not all about tourism. there are more and more people making their home there everyday and there are many people with high disposable incomes coming to town also to work in various fields. while the overall numbers are not amazing right now, you have to realize a few things

 

a) population growth

 

b) immense marketing and promotional opportunities

 

c) more disposable income

 

sometimes you have to think outside the box and take a chance. if this was the first talk about any of this then thats one thing. south florida has had chance after chance to build a stadium for this franchise. hell mr loria offered to foot half the bill.

 

and regarding the giants...it wasnt as much of a fully privately funded stadium as you are lead to believe. there was a 30 million difference, the politicos expected the marlins to contribute this entire amount, instead of sitting down and saying....look we are this close, lets all hammer something out and get it done.

 

bottom line. miami didnt care. game over.

 

 

 

You could be right about these things, but you could say the same thing about Miami. I know Vegas is growing very quickly, but the Marlins market includes a population of about 5 million people (Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties). It's going to take about another 20-30 years for Vegas to reach 5 million people. And, believe it or not, So. Florida is also growing very quickly, so by that time So. Floria will probably have about 7 million people.

 

Somehow you think Vegas has more marketing and promotional opportunities than Miami? Most of the major multinational companies have their Latin American headquarters in Miami. Miami has the most international banks out of all cities in the whole country. People with money from all over the world are moving and buying property in So. Florida. Many more people live in Miami part time - investors from Europe and Latin America and just plain people with money. It's an entertainment center - Spanish television, Spanish music industry, mainstream music and television industry, etc. You make it sound like Vegas blows Miami out of the water. You have to remember that Miami is one of the major cities in the country and is quickly becoming a powerhouse. Within 20 years (or perhaps now) Miami will be one of the big three - New York, LA, and Miami. So, in terms of potential, there is no match here. Miami wins hands down. The problem, of course, is that they don't have a stadium. But bottom line is that this city has more potential - they just have to work very hard to get the stadium deal done so they can exploit that potential.

 

Oh, and another thing, Miami is a city inhabitated by people from baseball crazy countries - Cuba, Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, and Venezuela (Marlins are already the most popular team in Venezuela). If the Marlins did a better job of marketing the team they would get more baseball crazed fans in the stadium.

 

i didnt say a promotion as in for free....

 

as part of various vacation packages, much like they include various other tickets to various attractions and shows in a package deal.

 

 

the attractions and shows typically take place in their own casinos.

 

so they cant include any other outside attractions to their packages?

 

again my entire point about thinking outside the box obviously went over your head.

you're such a business genius. i defer to you.

It doesn't matter how many fans go to the games in vegas or watch on TV. Vegas has a huge tax base thanks to casinos which means that Oscar Goodman can offer the moon and the stars in terms of subsidies and guarantee the Marlins against losses. If the New Orleans saints were being subsidized, and that's one of the poorest cities in the country, what do you think Vegas can offer the Marlins? Even if they play in front of 5,000 people every night they'll be making money hand over fist.