Hey guys I am an Orioles fan and post on our forum orioleshangout.com

 

There's been discussion of potential trades for MCab and Willis and I wanted to hear a Marlins fan's perspective on Dontrelle. I have a concern that much of his success is due to his funky delivery a la Hideo Nomo. Now Nomo got shelled after batters faced him a fair amount and could pick up the ball earlier. Could Dontrelle fall victim to the same type of career?

 

I don't mean to insult your players as I think Willis and MCab are amazing, but I would love to hear some perspective from people who've watched them play a fair amount. Is this a legitimate concern? Thanks guys.

Neither are going anywhere any time soon, you'll have plenty of time to evaluate them, in Marlins uniforms, for yourself.

D-Train's not going anywhere anytime soon. The payroll is at $18 million. They can afford him a few more years. :thumbup (BTW, if they intended on trading him they would have done it by now. He's costing the Marlins $4.4 million this season)

Why discuss something that's never going to happen? :mischief2

Hey guys I am an Orioles fan and post on our forum orioleshangout.com

 

There's been discussion of potential trades for MCab and Willis and I wanted to hear a Marlins fan's perspective on Dontrelle. I have a concern that much of his success is due to his funky delivery a la Hideo Nomo. Now Nomo got shelled after batters faced him a fair amount and could pick up the ball earlier. Could Dontrelle fall victim to the same type of career?

 

I don't mean to insult your players as I think Willis and MCab are amazing, but I would love to hear some perspective from people who've watched them play a fair amount. Is this a legitimate concern? Thanks guys.

 

 

except that nomo's best years arguably were when he entered the league.

 

 

dontrelle continues to get better and his motion is not anywhere close to as quirky as it once was.

 

 

dontrelle and miguel will be here for a very long time, might as well end your pipe dreams and worry about developing your own system for a change.

Why discuss something that's never going to happen? :mischief2

 

 

I understand how unlikely this is, but could you guys humor me and comment on whether his career could be on the same line as Hideo Nomo. In other words once batters figure out his crazy delivery he won't be nearly as succesful.

As much as I distrust the ownership at this point, I really don't believe they would trade Dontrelle. I would've said the same thing about Beckett, but whatever...

 

I still believe they won't deal Dontrelle. Unless they're completely batshit.

 

And I think the concerns about Dontrelle being "figured out", so to speak, are out the window. If some his success is due to his delivery (and it probably is), it's not something that can be solved.

No. Part of the reason the Marlins cleared payroll is to focus on building a profitable and winning club. With Willis and Cabrera's salaries weighed down by service time, they are considered part of this movement for the future. If in three years time, the Marlins don't have financing in place for a new stadium, then maybe the Marlins will consider trading them. And if they do, it will be for a lot more than Penn or Markakis.

No. Part of the reason the Marlins cleared payroll is to focus on building a profitable and winning club. With Willis and Cabrera's salaries weighed down by service time, they are considered part of this movement for the future. If in three years time, the Marlins don't have financing in place for a new stadium, then maybe the Marlins will consider trading them. And if they do, it will be for a lot more than Penn or Markakis.

 

 

I completely agree, was just curious. If you're at all interested here's the thread (its pretty long) on our forum, we're not dumb enough to think it would take only Penn or Markakis. http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30618

How good is Dontrelle? Much better than Chris Carpet-licker (carpenter) He

was totally robbed of the cy young last year. Anyway, he's not going anywhere

and he won't get "figured out" either.

Some of the proposals on that board are ridiculous. Someone wrote, "so if we could trade Penn, Olson/Erbe, and Majewski for him, I'd do that." LOL Like that would even be a discussion starter. lol

Answer: Real Good.

Answer: Real Good.

 

 

:lol

Make sure the guys at OriolesHangout have a link to this thread so they know how much we're laughing at their "fair" offers.

Some of the proposals on that board are ridiculous. Someone wrote, "so if we could trade Penn, Olson/Erbe, and Majewski for him, I'd do that." LOL Like that would even be a discussion starter. lol

 

 

There are idiots on every board, what can you do?

Some of the proposals on that board are ridiculous. Someone wrote, "so if we could trade Penn, Olson/Erbe, and Majewski for him, I'd do that." LOL Like that would even be a discussion starter. lol

 

 

There are idiots on every board, what can you do?

 

True. Good point.

 

I wish I could say, "I'd trade Gaby Hernandez, Ricky Nolasco, and Brad McCann for David Wright," and actually believe it was possible.

Some of the proposals on that board are ridiculous. Someone wrote, "so if we could trade Penn, Olson/Erbe, and Majewski for him, I'd do that." LOL Like that would even be a discussion starter. lol

 

 

There are idiots on every board, what can you do?

 

True. Good point.

 

I wish I could say, "I'd trade Gaby Hernandez, Ricky Nolasco, and Brad McCann for David Wright," and actually believe it was possible.

 

We have some posters on the hangout from different team forums, and I think you'll find that everyone overvalues there's own prospects. However we have a fair amount of posters who are intelligent enough to objectively evaluate what we and others have.

Hey guys I am an Orioles fan and post on our forum orioleshangout.com

 

There's been discussion of potential trades for MCab and Willis and I wanted to hear a Marlins fan's perspective on Dontrelle. I have a concern that much of his success is due to his funky delivery a la Hideo Nomo. Now Nomo got shelled after batters faced him a fair amount and could pick up the ball earlier. Could Dontrelle fall victim to the same type of career?

 

I don't mean to insult your players as I think Willis and MCab are amazing, but I would love to hear some perspective from people who've watched them play a fair amount. Is this a legitimate concern? Thanks guys.

 

I guess I'll entertain the question of whether Willis will end up like Nomo. Just like Nomo, Dontrelle's delivery is clearly something that works to his advantage in approaching a batter for the first time. It is a deceptive delivery that is tough to pick up. But that is where the similarities end. Unlike Nomo, Willis is consistently ahead in counts, exhibits MUCH better control, and works VERY quickly. Also, Nomo tended to be MUCH better out of the wind-up as opposed to from the stretch, while Dontrelle seems to only suffer a slight drop-off from the stretch in terms of strikeout rate, etc. His fastball is a bit better than Nomo's, and while Nomo had a much better "out" pitch in his sinking fastball (or whatever you want to call it), Dontrelle has shown that he can strike guys out with late movement on his fastball, as well as a great slider that - although is rarely thrown for a called strike - tends to be routinely swung at and missed...particularly with two strikes. Dontrelle is also getting a bit better with his change-up, at least in terms of hitting the strike zone. Basically, if Dontrelle doesn't throw strikes, he may be in for a rough night relying on his fastball too much. BUT, if he gets ahead in the count and locates his fastball, which last season was pretty much the ENTIRE year, Dontrelle is extremely tough. Also, the fact that Willis is a lefty is also a difference that tends to tip the scales in Dontrelle's favor. Dontrelle also is a team leader, a spark of energy in the dugout, and - an amazing hitter with plus speed. To top it all off, Dontrelle is extremely young and getting better.

 

There is NO chance he is on the market anytime soon.

I take issue with the assertion that Dontrelle rarely throws his slider for called strikes. He can throw all his pitches for strikes, almost at-will. He's got incredible control. If he had trouble throwing his slider or changeup for strikes then hitters would just sit on his fastball all day long.

As a number of people have written, giving information to fans of other teams who are speculating about trades to net Miguel Cabrera or Dontrelle Willis is pointless ? at least this year. I think rferry's assessment of the situation with Dontrelle and Miguel is generally correct. These two are the cornerstones of our franchise and the Marlins will keep them as long as they are arbitration eligible. After that, it is hard to say.

 

We shouldn't get too worked up about these ignorant folks, though. I have seen speculation like this about trading to get Miguel and D-Train on a number of different message boards. I am not suprised at all that other fans, not being too familiar with the Marlins current situation, still make these speculations after witnessing this off-season's Fish fry.

As much as I distrust the ownership at this point, I really don't believe they would trade Dontrelle. I would've said the same thing about Beckett, but whatever...

 

 

I share that thought as well.

As a number of people have written, giving information to fans of other teams who are speculating about trades to net Miguel Cabrera or Dontrelle Willis is pointless ? at least this year. I think rferry's assessment of the situation with Dontrelle and Miguel is generally correct. These two are the cornerstones of our franchise and the Marlins will keep them as long as they are arbitration eligible. After that, it is hard to say.

 

We shouldn't get too worked up about these ignorant folks, though. I have seen speculation like this about trading to get Miguel and D-Train on a number of different message boards. I am not suprised at all that other fans, not being too familiar with the Marlins current situation, still make these speculations after witnessing this off-season's Fish fry.

 

 

What started the thread was mlb trade rumors, which mentioned the possibility that MCab was available for the right price. It was a fun idea to explore even though we recognize how improbable, no reason to call anyone ignorant for that. If the offseason isn't a good time to discuss pipe dreams then I don't know when is.

Willis and Cabrera are gonna be Marlins until they get $10 million in arbitration...then they are gone unless a new stadium deal is done.

 

The sky is the limit with Willis. I don't buy into the Nomo business, because Willis is throwing alot harder now than when he came up and is actually getting stronger. I don't think he'll win 20 games again for a while, because the rest of the team is really weak.....but his numbers will stay strong.

 

Miguel Cabrera is a young Manny Ramirez. The ball jumps off his bat with a swing that looks so smooth it seems effortless.

 

The Orioles don't have enough to get either of them.

Completely ignoring the insinuation that Willis or Cabrera are going anywhere except the WBC, I figured I'd answer the other question.

 

Dontrelle's success actually has almost nothing to do with his windup at this point. Willis is a three pitch pitcher who can sneak in a couple of a "as-you-go" pitches like any great pitcher can. First off, his fastball runs between 89-92 MPH consistently with a max of 94ish. The fastball isn't flat; it has late action that aids a lot of his strike outs. He uses the pitch almost exclusively in the lower part of the strike zone unless he's climbing the ladder for a K. This isn't very often though, I'd say off the top of my head maybe 1 or 2 in every 5 of Willis' K's happen this way. Nothing major. His slider/slurve type deal is a very effective pitch, used precisely. While the movement hasn't changed in his three seasons, he's harnassed the pitch more and can now use it almost at will in any count. He doesn't show it often so the bite remains potent especially when mixed in with the fastball's movement. The difference last season was the development of a major league caliber change. As is the case with the other two pitches, he controls it very well. He'll use the change usually at the tail end of a count, unless he's facing a dead eye first pitch fastball hitter (SEE Admin Chipper Jones).

 

Key with Dontrelle is what it has always been. Control. The windup is very publicized because it's really cool, but once you get passed the funkiness you get the actual talent. You used to be able to tell whether Dontrelle was going to get shelled or not by the first batter of the game. If he was getting the corners, it was a top notch start. If he was getting squeezed, fasten your seat belt and hope the offense remembered their bats. Not anymore. Dontrelle has matured very quickly and now he will take whatever the ump gives him and use it to his advantage. His control isn't in Greg Maddux's league at this point, but it's pretty dead eye already. Usually he won't give you a 10+ K game (though he does have the potential in him when he's blowing smoke), but he will give you a quality start at the very minimum almost every time he takes the mound. He gets guys out with a lot of weak hits both on the ground and in the air, and he's begun to work with a very quick pace that keeps batters off at times.

 

That's about all I can give you right now off memory. Check back in during the season for more in depth.

Good write up, Juanky. I agree with your assessment. His stuff is above average and he's got nearly pin-point control. That makes him nasty.