As a number of people have written, giving information to fans of other teams who are speculating about trades to net Miguel Cabrera or Dontrelle Willis is pointless ? at least this year. I think rferry's assessment of the situation with Dontrelle and Miguel is generally correct. These two are the cornerstones of our franchise and the Marlins will keep them as long as they are arbitration eligible. After that, it is hard to say.

 

We shouldn't get too worked up about these ignorant folks, though. I have seen speculation like this about trading to get Miguel and D-Train on a number of different message boards. I am not suprised at all that other fans, not being too familiar with the Marlins current situation, still make these speculations after witnessing this off-season's Fish fry.

 

 

What started the thread was mlb trade rumors, which mentioned the possibility that MCab was available for the right price. It was a fun idea to explore even though we recognize how improbable, no reason to call anyone ignorant for that. If the offseason isn't a good time to discuss pipe dreams then I don't know when is.

 

I can say that you, at least, seem like one fan of another team who is actually interested in learning about the probability of a trade like this. Hopefully now you are not ignorant of the Marlins current financial situation vis a vis the Marlins retaining the services of both Dontrelle and Miguel this year and as long as they are arbitration eligible. If not, I encourage you to search the archives.

Thanks for the info everyone. I think the general consensus outside of Florida is that after Beckett went (actually predicted by one of our "ignorant" fans) that no one was untouchable, clearly this is not the case. Best of luck with your youth movement and hopefully your new stadium.

Beckett went because that was the only way for us to get rid of Lowell's contract. Josh would still be here if we could have moved Lowell without moving Beckett.

Thanks for the info everyone. I think the general consensus outside of Florida is that after Beckett went (actually predicted by one of our "ignorant" fans) that no one was untouchable, clearly this is not the case. Best of luck with your youth movement and hopefully your new stadium.

 

 

The Marlins traded Beckett because he was the only player they could dangle out there to get back some quality prospects in a package deal with Lowell once the harvest came this off-season. The Beckett trade hurt me more than most. But now that everything has settled, the Marlins have a payroll of somewhere around $18 million and stand to profit whatever may come this season.

Beckett was traded because that was the only way we could move the albatross that Mike Lowell became

Beckett was traded because that was the only way we could move the albatross that Mike Lowell became

 

 

I understand this, it was the rationale for our fan's prediction. Basically you had to package him with one of Beckett/MCab/D-Train to move his silly contract on someone else and still get what you needed back. Of the three, mr. finger blisters was the easy choice.

He might be Mr. Finger Blisters....but he also is a World Series MVP! How many of those did Cal Ripken win? Oh, ZERO! Beckett will be aided by being out of the extreme heat of Florida and will contend for the Cy Young Award this season. You only wish the Orioles could have gotten a pitcher like him.

 

You're going to have a hard time staying out of the basement yourselves. If the Marlins traded you Willis AND Cabrera......you still would be no better than the 4th place team you'll probably be anyway.

 

Have fun going 72-90......and least the Marlins will have an excuse.....the O's will have none.

I've been following this OH thread since it's inception (in fact I mentioned it here in another thread a couple of days ago) but remained silent on their messageboard even though I was tempted to enter the debate.

 

As Marlins fans yes we've had a rough off-season but O's fans have had a rough decade, watching their franchise underacheive year after year. Find fault all you want with with our ownership but at least we've been playing meaningful games (not to mention a WS championship) for the last three years. The Orioles have not. Their fans are desperate for a winner and so when a one line rumor comes out like this it's understandable why there's a stampede to their keyboards to find a way to land Miguel Cabrera, and now Dontrelle Willis.

 

If you followed the comings and goings at OH this off-season it's the same debate over and over, only the name of the player(s) in the spotlight change. And following the debate, heartbreak as the coveted player goes elsewhere. It's a pity so ravenous a fan base is betrayed year after by Angelos and company.

 

Generally, the people at OH hold the Marlins in contempt. They look down on us. The see us as easy pickings. What it really is though is contempt for their own organization which has made one wrong move after another. They look at us and in some respects see themselves in the mirror. Some there are so desperate they would want the Marlins contracted just on the hope that some of our players would wind up in Baltimore.

 

At the end of the season I suspect our records will not be all that different. There's a lesson there. And more importantly, a hope in South Florida that the future will bring a competitive team and winning record in short order.

 

In Baltimore there is no hope.

In Baltimore there is no hope.

 

 

:lol

He might be Mr. Finger Blisters....but he also is a World Series MVP! How many of those did Cal Ripken win? Oh, ZERO! Beckett will be aided by being out of the extreme heat of Florida and will contend for the Cy Young Award this season. You only wish the Orioles could have gotten a pitcher like him.

 

You're going to have a hard time staying out of the basement yourselves. If the Marlins traded you Willis AND Cabrera......you still would be no better than the 4th place team you'll probably be anyway.

 

Have fun going 72-90......and least the Marlins will have an excuse.....the O's will have none.

 

 

wtf did the Orioles poster say to warrant this? For the most part he's been polite & respectful.

 

You sound like a 12 year-old. Some of you suck. :thumbdown

I think everything has been said at this point, but I wanted to reiterate one thing in regards to the comparison to Nomo... I think Nomo relied heavliy on batters being deceived by his delivery, meaning his actual stuff wasn't that good.

 

Dontrelle, on the other hand, had both when he first came into the league.. which contributed heavily to his amazing start. However, I really think part of the reason he suffered from a mild "sophomore slump" is because he got too caught up in that quirky delivery. One of the things that Mark Wiley worked on with Dontrelle was controlling the "quirkyness".. As Marlins fans here, we all saw a big change in his delivery this past season. It was much more consistent and he had much more control over it. Dontrelle has begun to focus more on making quality pitches vs the circus show that was his delivery. The numbers he put up last season prove he is the real thing. I actually think his delivery is much closer to standard these days, to be honest.

 

And I have to agree with Hotcorner.. This O's fan has been nothing but polite and respectful. He hasn't deserved the jackass responses he's received.. I wish the O's nothing but the best. I'll be watching Conine and Millar closely.... although I want to see the Red Sox take the East....

Great writeup Juanky. Only thing I'd add is one more key reason for the success of Dontrelle: keeping the ball in the park. His control and ability to keep the ball down for low strikes (at will) factors greatly into this.

We have some posters on the hangout from different team forums, and I think you'll find that everyone overvalues there's own prospects. However we have a fair amount of posters who are intelligent enough to objectively evaluate what we and others have.

 

 

I like you. Two words describe this post: Scott Olsen

Better to overvalue your own prospects than overvalue someone elses.

He might be Mr. Finger Blisters....but he also is a World Series MVP! How many of those did Cal Ripken win? Oh, ZERO! Beckett will be aided by being out of the extreme heat of Florida and will contend for the Cy Young Award this season. You only wish the Orioles could have gotten a pitcher like him.

 

You're going to have a hard time staying out of the basement yourselves. If the Marlins traded you Willis AND Cabrera......you still would be no better than the 4th place team you'll probably be anyway.

 

Have fun going 72-90......and least the Marlins will have an excuse.....the O's will have none.

 

 

To those of you who have defended me for these unwarranted attacks thank you. Also thanks to everyone for the great information regarding Dontrelle. I don't wanna get bogged down in these stupid squabbles, but I would not be an Orioles fan if I let this lunacy stand.

 

Did you just try to compare a very talented but young and injury prone pitcher to a first ballot hall of famer, and one of the most well respected men in the game of baseball? Really intelligent buddy.

 

The same people who berated me for not knowing everything about your team should take a step back and think how ridiculous it looks when I read what you "know" about mine. It sure takes a lot of balls to sit there and preach to the choir, at least I came here and attempted to defend myself.

 

The Orioles are finally heading in the right direction. Angelos has taken his grubby hands off the baseball matters and allowed our new competent GMs to do their job. Our farm system has done a 180 since Jor Jordan took over the scouting/drafting responsibilities. We have 4 prospects in the top 100, only 4 other teams in baseball have more then that. We have our own 2 young talented arms already in the big show in Erik Bedard (lefty with the best numbers in the AL before injuring his knee last year) and Daniel Cabrera (6'8 beast with arguably the best pure stuff in baseball). We added Leo Mazzone, the best pitching coach in baseball to groom these youngsters. Tejada is healthy again and over his bitter stage which extended all the way back into the entire post-all-star season. Javy Lopez is healthy again, and Brian Roberts is on schedule to start opening day. We ditched the contingion of malcontents in Ponson, Kline, Julio, Sosa, Palmeiro, and Surhoff. They've been replaced with character guys in Millar and Niner, and low risk high reward guys in Corey Patterson and Richard Hidalgo.

 

We have no excuse? If playing in the same division as the Yankees and Sox isn't a good excuse then I want some of what you're smoking. My expectations are realistic, but I believe we can finish over .500. But to just claim that we're the same old Orioles as before is unfounded and idiotic.

The Orioles are finally heading in the right direction. Angelos has taken his grubby hands off the baseball matters and allowed our new competent GMs to do their job. Our farm system has done a 180 since Jor Jordan took over the scouting/drafting responsibilities. We have 4 prospects in the top 100, only 4 other teams in baseball have more then that. We have our own 2 young talented arms already in the big show in Erik Bedard (lefty with the best numbers in the AL before injuring his knee last year) and Daniel Cabrera (6'8 beast with arguably the best pure stuff in baseball). We added Leo Mazzone, the best pitching coach in baseball to groom these youngsters. Tejada is healthy again and over his bitter stage which extended all the way back into the entire post-all-star season. Javy Lopez is healthy again, and Brian Roberts is on schedule to start opening day. We ditched the contingion of malcontents in Ponson, Kline, Julio, Sosa, Palmeiro, and Surhoff. They've been replaced with character guys in Millar and Niner, and low risk high reward guys in Corey Patterson and Richard Hidalgo.

 

 

Great post. I hope it works out well for you. If you want more pitching, we can accomodate you with someone besides Dontrelle with ace/# 2 potential a few years down the road..... we'd need Markakis though. We will glady take him off yours hands if you aren't going to even mention him in a post. :whistle

 

Also, what's your honest take on the Gibbons deal? I think they overpaid.

I'm not sure Markakis will be able to play CF, and top out as a Admin Bigbie or Juan Encarnacion (minus the Ks)

As a number of people have written, giving information to fans of other teams who are speculating about trades to net Miguel Cabrera or Dontrelle Willis is pointless ? at least this year. I think rferry's assessment of the situation with Dontrelle and Miguel is generally correct. These two are the cornerstones of our franchise and the Marlins will keep them as long as they are arbitration eligible. After that, it is hard to say.

 

We shouldn't get too worked up about these ignorant folks, though. I have seen speculation like this about trading to get Miguel and D-Train on a number of different message boards. I am not suprised at all that other fans, not being too familiar with the Marlins current situation, still make these speculations after witnessing this off-season's Fish fry.

 

 

What started the thread was mlb trade rumors, which mentioned the possibility that MCab was available for the right price. It was a fun idea to explore even though we recognize how improbable, no reason to call anyone ignorant for that. If the offseason isn't a good time to discuss pipe dreams then I don't know when is.

 

Cabrera is a lot less available than Willis, and Willis is untouchable.

 

:lol