BLACKBURN, England - Heckled during a visit to Washington?s closest ally, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday the United States has made thousands of mistakes but is pursuing worthy goals in Iraq.

 

?I know we?ve made tactical errors, thousands of them I?m sure,? Rice said at a foreign policy gathering ?But history will judge whether the larger aims and decisions were correct.?

 

The top U.S. diplomat also said international sanctions must be an option if the nuclear standoff with Iran continues. That made explicit what had been an unspoken threat now that Iran?s case is before the United Nations Security Council.

 

The United States has avoided for months talking about economic sanctions or other tough consequences for Iran if it does not comply, out of deference to allies and partners who oppose any punitive moves.

 

Rice defended the three-year-old Iraq war as the right way to rid the world of a threatening dictator and said Iraqis will make a success of their new democracy.

 

?Saddam Hussein wasn?t going anywhere without military intervention,? Rice said.

 

She gave no timetable for withdrawal of U.S. or British forces.

 

Britain has the second-largest contingent of troops in Iraq after the United States, and Prime Minister Tony Blair has stuck by President Bush despite widespread opposition to the war at home.

 

Rice met loud anti-war protests in the streets of this northern industrial town, including chants of ?Hey, Condi, hey, how many kids did you kill today,? at one stop. At a Liverpool performing arts school once attended by Paul McCartney, one group of students sang for Rice while others booed her.

 

?People have a right to protest,? Rice told students at a Blackburn high school. It?s part of her job to listen, Rice said. ?I?m not just going to visit places where people agree with me.?

 

Police estimated that 1,500 people crowded an intersection near a Liverpool Philharmonic concert Rice was attending. Amid a cacophony of whistles, steel drums and mock police sirens, they chanted songs accusing Rice of war crimes.

 

Police on horseback formed a barrier around a short stretch of road between the venue and Rice?s hotel, with other officers wearing riot helmets and body armor on standby, hidden from view down a side street.

 

The protests were the reverse of the warm reception Rice received last fall when she invited British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw for a down-home tour of her native Alabama.

 

Then, elderly white women lined up to shake the hand of a black native daughter made good, football fans cheered and the tantalizing possibility of a run for president ? something she discounts ? surrounded Rice.

 

To reciprocate, Straw is hosting Rice for two days in his largely working-class legislative district.

 

Rice faced skeptical questions about U.S. involvement in Iraq at a question-and-answer session organized by the British foreign policy think tank Chatham House, including one about whether Washington had learned from its ?mistakes over the past three years.?

 

Rice invoked her academic background to answer.

 

?I?m quite certain that there are going to be dissertations written about the mistakes of the Bush administration, and I will probably even oversee some of them when I go back to Stanford,? Rice said.

 

She batted away questions about whether she might run for president, saying she intends to return to teaching when she leaves government. Rice was a professor and provost at Stanford University before becoming Bush?s first-term national security adviser and second-term secretary of state.

 

Rice was a chief architect of the Iraq war, now in its fourth year. That history was at the center of the opposition she faced Friday, although demonstrators also objected to U.S. policies in pursuit of terrorists.

 

?Why should we be seen to endorse the policies of this woman?? demanded Jon Netton, 22, an acting student at Liverpool Institute for Performing Arts who said Rice?s visit had disrupted his practice schedule for an upcoming concert.

 

A planned visit to a mosque in Blackburn for Friday prayers was canceled because of concern that demonstrators would be too disruptive, mosque leaders said. About a quarter of the town is of South Asian heritage, and many are Muslims.

 

A prominent poet and actress pulled out of planned appearances at an evening concert in Liverpool in protest of U.S. policies.

 

I'm glad that at least one administration official will admit that they have made mistakes. It really isn't as hard as they make it seem.

Damn, Condoleeza should watch her mouth. Future_GM is going to be jacking off into the wee hours of the morning to this article.

Damn, Condoleeza should watch her mouth. Future_GM is going to be jacking off into the wee hours of the morning to this article.

 

Very funny. :plain

 

Still, you have to give her credit for admitting mistakes in the war.

It's funny 'cuz it's true. hehehe.

I've been trying to have a serious discussion about this war, but apparently no one on here wants to have it. They would much rather turn my posts into flaming. It's sad, really.

Still, you have to give her credit for admitting mistakes in the war.

 

Even though hardly any of the mistakes made were directly her fault. I'd personally like an apology from this man immediately following his resignation.

Still, you have to give her credit for admitting mistakes in the war.

 

Even though hardly any of the mistakes made were directly her fault. I'd personally like an apology from this man immediately following his resignation.

I can agree with that.

I have a feeling the President isn't going to be too happy about this. Condi's about to get a smackdown.

I have a feeling the President isn't going to be too happy about this. Condi's about to get a smackdown.

 

Maybe Cheney will invite her to his Sith lair in that undisclosed location. :cool

She is beginning to distance herself from the administration for when she makes a run for Presidency.

Yeah, and thousands of "tactical errors" were made during WW2 and every other war we have been involved in, so exactly what is your damn point?

She is beginning to distance herself from the administration for when she makes a run for Presidency.

 

Just about every person in the Republican party running either for President or reelection has been doing the same things since February.

I think the second part of Condoleeza's quote was "obviously not read" :mischief

I think the second part of Condoleeza's quote was "obviously not read" :mischief

 

I would be very surprised if history judged the Iraq War to be anything but a failure. She almost certainly said that to cover herself.

I think the second part of Condoleeza's quote was "obviously not read" :mischief

 

I would be very surprised if history judged the Iraq War to be anything but a failure.

You are beyond ridiculous.

 

No matter how hard you're rooting for them, the insurgency will not continue forever. They will eventually be defeated and when that day comes Iraq will be peaceful and democratic.

Ok, why don't we just settle this. Id like a solid argument as to why this war has been a success. Dont use talking points. Dont use broad generalizations.

 

Instead of insulting FutureGM with references to beating off(why so into that festa?) , actually make an argument.

Damn, Condoleeza should watch her mouth. Future_GM is going to be jacking off into the wee hours of the morning to this article.

 

:lol

 

 

Damn, Condoleeza should watch her mouth. Future_GM is going to be jacking off into the wee hours of the morning to this article.

 

Very funny. :plain

 

Still, you have to give her credit for admitting mistakes in the war.

Yay she told the truth.

I've been trying to have a serious discussion about this war, but apparently no one on here wants to have it. They would much rather turn my posts into flaming. It's sad, really.

:blink:

 

i'm not sure how much serious discussion you expected in a thread about condi's latest gaffe...

If you want a serious discussion, then you have to have a serious forum for that discussion. By forum I don't mean a specific message board, I mean the correct attitude and atmosphere. Once I see that displayed here, then I would be willing to participate in a serious discussion.

Ok, why don't we just settle this. Id like a solid argument as to why this war has been a success. Dont use talking points. Dont use broad generalizations.

 

Instead of insulting FutureGM with references to beating off(why so into that festa?) , actually make an argument.

 

 

Yeah, this thread is becoming the "hate on member" forum rather than refutation by argument. If this doesn't stop soon, mods will be presented with evidence that certain members are being detrimental to discussion in this thread.

 

I normally, wouldn't care, but it's going to far. If you guys can't be rational, there's no point.

 

If you want a serious discussion, then you have to have a serious forum for that discussion. By forum I don't mean a specific message board, I mean the correct attitude and atmosphere. Once I see that displayed here, then I would be willing to participate in a serious discussion.

 

 

Exactly. We shouldn't be having members being turned off of these forums because people are going too far or not respecting others at all.

If you guys think anyone besides Festa was out of line in this thread, grow a pair. Seriously.

I've been trying to have a serious discussion about this war, but apparently no one on here wants to have it. They would much rather turn my posts into flaming. It's sad, really.

:blink:

 

i'm not sure how much serious discussion you expected in a thread about condi's latest gaffe...

 

There's always way to discuss without ad hominem attack. If you don't know that, then I suggest reading some logic books. I can think of three, off the top of my head, modus ponens, modus tollens and reductio ad absurdum are all viable, logical forms of refutation. Plus there's a way to disagree without being disrespectful.

 

Okay, we're ALL guilty of being disrespectful at some point. But when some people do it all the time, or call out certain members, it becomes futile to discuss because then people aren't arguing the issue but are just hating on each other.

 

If you guys think anyone besides Festa was out of line in this thread, grow a pair. Seriously.

 

 

I don't. But I think it's going to far. And he's not the only member guilty of it, see: the recently banned: SuperAngels.

Well it happens when all we do is beat a dead horse - in this case, the Iraq War.

Well it happens when all we do is beat a dead horse - in this case, the Iraq War.

 

 

So, that's an excuse for me making fun of you, how...?

 

DODGE, YOU DAMN REPUBLICAN! HOW CAN YOU STILL SUPPORT THIS ADMINISTRATION WITH THESE f***S IN OFFICE!? JESUS GODDAMN CHRIST, THAT'S LIKE ME SUPPORTING PONTIOUS AS THEY'RE HAMMERING JESUS, EVEN THO HE'S OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR!

 

You see where I overstepped the bounds? There's still ways to talk and discuss without "flaming" each other. I mean, you can still ask why someone believes something and try to prove why their belief is faulty, without being totally disrespectful.

 

Go to the French thread for evidence of total non-discussion, ad hominem attack. I mean, most of the members in this forum are adults and yet, when confronted with a serious issue, act like opposing students at a high school football game. It's just going too far.

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=58977&view=findpost&p=1084787

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1084821

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1084860

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1083710

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1083850

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1084347

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1084750

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1084847

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1084937

 

http://www.marlinbaseball.com/forums/index...dpost&p=1084955

 

I challenge anyone to cut and paste these links and tell me how this form of discussion is "okay" or not detrimental to any kind of further discussion. And yes, I primarily used to immigration and French threads because they were the easiest examples. I mean, there's kidding, and then there's being vicious and then there's just ruining discussion. Kidding is fine, the other two aren't under most contexts.