May 22, 200620 yr To all the Joe "apologists"...do you think he is doing a GOOD job? As in, if we somehow had a different manager since the start of the season, would we have a worse record? Or, would our players "develop" at a slower/worse rate? You cannot blame Girardi for the failings of the bullpen (of late). Girardi has shown these past few games that he is willing to try anyone in the closer's role, to see if we can solve this problem. However, it took him a month to figure out that our young pitchers are just as well suited (ill-suited) for late inning/closer roles as are our veterans - who were cast-aside by some of the worst bullpens in MLB. And, Girardi has made some questionable decisions since the start of the season that begs the question of whether he is cut out for managing this team. On the positive side, his patience with Abercrombie has seemed to paid off...and we now have a serviceable CFer. That is definitely a decision that I did not agree with, but has paid off. Also, he stuck with Jacobs in situations that I did not agree with either, but that has also worked out for the Fish. However, is it really Girardi's decision to stick with these players, when we have NO viable options to replace them? IMO, it is not enough to simply start a thread to excuse Girardi's managerial skills (or lack thereof) by pointing out that our team is so bad that he could do nothing to mitigate the damage. What is Girardi doing right?? What has given anyone the impression that he is the right manager for a young/developing team, or even the right manager for a team on the verge on contending? I cannot remember another team having a young manager that needed this long of a learning curve. Either you can manage, or you can't. The time and patience we give to Jacobs, Abercrombie, etc. should not apply to our manager. Unlike many on this board, I will not feign ignorance of what is plainly obvious. How many other teams would trade their manager for ours? If my observation is premature, how many months need to pass before we can assess Girardi's managerial skills? I am not trying to needlessly bash Girardi. I respect his class in handling a situation that was probably not the same one he signed up for. Also, I think he has clearly improved in his handling of the team, at least offensively, the last few weeks. But, is this enough? And again your singing the same old tune. You bash Girardi for the shortcomings of the team (bullpen decisions) and in the same breath you dont give him credit for ANYTHING good that has happened (Reggie, Jacobs return). You cant remember another team having a young manager that needed this long of a learning curve???? Of course you cant, because you cant remember another team with a 15 MILLION DOLLAR PAYROLL. If you think we would have won all those close games early on if Girardi brought in the dynamic duo of Kensing/Messenger in as opposed to Herges than your just fooling yourself. The whole blame the manager approach is weak. Especially under these circumstances. I wonder how angered you would be if he was actually fielding a bona fide Major League ballclub. Did you even read my post? Please see the "bolded" excerpts above. I gave Girardi credit for sticking with these guys, when everyone else was calling for their demotion. Stop "singing the same old tune" of blindly bashing my posts until you read them, and offer logic/reason to support your "we love Joe" arguments. As much as Girardi's hand is forced to stick with the same washed-up arms in the bullpen, he was equally forced to stick with Abercrombie and Jacobs...he had no viable alternatives. To give him credit for one, while dismissing the bullpen situation is a joke. Once again, I ask: What has given anyone the impression that he is the right manager for a young/developing team, or even the right manager for a team on the verge on contending? Would you honestly credit Joe for any of our wins this season? Would any other team trade their manager for Joe?
May 22, 200620 yr those things aren't joes fault... but imagine if we had Jim Leyland back this season. god damn that would be cool. Yes the same guy who lost 108 games in 1998. Great motivator he was.
May 22, 200620 yr I was just getting my hair cut at Vincent's Barber Shop in Coral Springs and Joe walks in with his son, Dante. He seems like a great guy.
May 22, 200620 yr It's the front office that blew it. Joe is a nice guy and he might some day be a good manager. However, he was not the man for this job. The Marlins needed someone with manager experience. Someone with a strong resume on coaching young players. Even a minor league manager. Now, not only do our players have to learn in the big leagues but so does our manager. Joe was put in a no win situation. It's not his fault at all. However, the bottom line is that he is our manager, and he will get better along with the rest of this team. We do have to cut him some slack. As for the closer problem, I honestly think that if he sticks to one guy for a while, regardless of the out come, some one will emerge as a legit closer. We have a lot of good arms in the pen, they just need time to adjust to the majors, and learn their roles. That said, Borowski, and Herges have no business closing because they have no future with us. Pick one of the kids and give him time to develop.
May 22, 200620 yr To all the Joe "apologists"...do you think he is doing a GOOD job? As in, if we somehow had a different manager since the start of the season, would we have a worse record? Or, would our players "develop" at a slower/worse rate? You cannot blame Girardi for the failings of the bullpen (of late). Girardi has shown these past few games that he is willing to try anyone in the closer's role, to see if we can solve this problem. However, it took him a month to figure out that our young pitchers are just as well suited (ill-suited) for late inning/closer roles as are our veterans - who were cast-aside by some of the worst bullpens in MLB. And, Girardi has made some questionable decisions since the start of the season that begs the question of whether he is cut out for managing this team. On the positive side, his patience with Abercrombie has seemed to paid off...and we now have a serviceable CFer. That is definitely a decision that I did not agree with, but has paid off. Also, he stuck with Jacobs in situations that I did not agree with either, but that has also worked out for the Fish. However, is it really Girardi's decision to stick with these players, when we have NO viable options to replace them? IMO, it is not enough to simply start a thread to excuse Girardi's managerial skills (or lack thereof) by pointing out that our team is so bad that he could do nothing to mitigate the damage. What is Girardi doing right?? What has given anyone the impression that he is the right manager for a young/developing team, or even the right manager for a team on the verge on contending? I cannot remember another team having a young manager that needed this long of a learning curve. Either you can manage, or you can't. The time and patience we give to Jacobs, Abercrombie, etc. should not apply to our manager. Unlike many on this board, I will not feign ignorance of what is plainly obvious. How many other teams would trade their manager for ours? If my observation is premature, how many months need to pass before we can assess Girardi's managerial skills? I am not trying to needlessly bash Girardi. I respect his class in handling a situation that was probably not the same one he signed up for. Also, I think he has clearly improved in his handling of the team, at least offensively, the last few weeks. But, is this enough? And again your singing the same old tune. You bash Girardi for the shortcomings of the team (bullpen decisions) and in the same breath you dont give him credit for ANYTHING good that has happened (Reggie, Jacobs return). You cant remember another team having a young manager that needed this long of a learning curve???? Of course you cant, because you cant remember another team with a 15 MILLION DOLLAR PAYROLL. If you think we would have won all those close games early on if Girardi brought in the dynamic duo of Kensing/Messenger in as opposed to Herges than your just fooling yourself. The whole blame the manager approach is weak. Especially under these circumstances. I wonder how angered you would be if he was actually fielding a bona fide Major League ballclub. Did you even read my post? Please see the "bolded" excerpts above. I gave Girardi credit for sticking with these guys, when everyone else was calling for their demotion. Stop "singing the same old tune" of blindly bashing my posts until you read them, and offer logic/reason to support your "we love Joe" arguments. As much as Girardi's hand is forced to stick with the same washed-up arms in the bullpen, he was equally forced to stick with Abercrombie and Jacobs...he had no viable alternatives. To give him credit for one, while dismissing the bullpen situation is a joke. Once again, I ask: What has given anyone the impression that he is the right manager for a young/developing team, or even the right manager for a team on the verge on contending? Would you honestly credit Joe for any of our wins this season? Would any other team trade their manager for Joe? Look.....everyone knows that a managers role in MLB is over-rated. You can only make so many pitching changes to get lefty/lefty righty/righty matchups or pinch run for a guy. Its all about the roster dude. Joe G was dealt a bad hand and now you want him to polish a turd. Do you honestly believe that Tony Larussa is a great manager? Do the Cardinals win because Tony Larussa makes 87 pitching changes a game? :no Why wouldnt a young enthusiastic manager be a good fit for a young team? Do you think a weathered old manager would have this team at 25 wins right now? Jack McKeon would have made Randy Messenger cry on the mound in front of 20,000 ppl by now. I read your post but honestly I dont need to because all your Girardi rants are the same tired propaganda. If we had a few decent middle relievers this would be an incredibly over-acheiving team and we would not be having this :debate I respect your opinion but your not giving Girardi a fare shake considering Chan Ho Park makes more cake than his whole roster.
May 22, 200620 yr So that's that, just an opinion of mine, I think Joe needs to be cut some slack... You can put Cox, Torre, Larussa to manage this team and they still wouldnt be able to get sh*t out of that bullpen period!.....FISH4LIFE I high doubt that. Our record would be better with any of them. Braves barely have better talent than us now yet their record is light years better. Dude, what ARE you smoking? Talk about delusional! Next thing you're going to say is that George Bush isn't doing such a bad job as president!
May 22, 200620 yr So that's that, just an opinion of mine, I think Joe needs to be cut some slack... You can put Cox, Torre, Larussa to manage this team and they still wouldnt be able to get sh*t out of that bullpen period!.....FISH4LIFE I high doubt that. Our record would be better with any of them. Braves barely have better talent than us now yet their record is light years better. Dude, what ARE you smoking? Talk about delusional! Next thing you're going to say is that George Bush isn't doing such a bad job as president! Exactly......LaRoche, McCann and Francouer were all top notch prospects. Like usual the Braves FO did their homework and brought in the right players.
May 22, 200620 yr So that's that, just an opinion of mine, I think Joe needs to be cut some slack... You can put Cox, Torre, Larussa to manage this team and they still wouldnt be able to get sh*t out of that bullpen period!.....FISH4LIFE I high doubt that. Our record would be better with any of them. Braves barely have better talent than us now yet their record is light years better. Dude, what ARE you smoking? Talk about delusional! Next thing you're going to say is that George Bush isn't doing such a bad job as president! Exactly......LaRoche, McCann and Francouer were all top notch prospects. Like usual the Braves FO did their homework and brought in the right players. I think they drafted them all...
May 22, 200620 yr I think they drafted them all... Isn't that what I said ? Dude you guys have got to seriously lighten up....geesh not everything I say is trolling :lol
May 22, 200620 yr So that's that, just an opinion of mine, I think Joe needs to be cut some slack... You can put Cox, Torre, Larussa to manage this team and they still wouldnt be able to get sh*t out of that bullpen period!.....FISH4LIFE I high doubt that. Our record would be better with any of them. Braves barely have better talent than us now yet their record is light years better. Dude, what ARE you smoking? Talk about delusional! Next thing you're going to say is that George Bush isn't doing such a bad job as president! The Braves talent is not much better than ours. With the exception of Chipper and Andrew Jones, the young talent is comprable. Everyone has Hermida rated a better prospect than Francouer. We'll all get to see him now in the next couple of days and judge for ourselves. McCann is hitting above his head right now. He won't lead the league in hitting I promise you that. We also have a surplus of young pitching talent that the Braves wish they had. We'll be in much better shape than the Braves in 2 to 3 years. By the way, Bush is doing a great job, too bad you just don't get it. However, this is not a political thread. That stuff doesn't belong here.
May 23, 200620 yr The Braves talent is not much better than ours. With the exception of Chipper and Andrew Jones, the young talent is comprable. Everyone has Hermida rated a better prospect than Francouer. We'll all get to see him now in the next couple of days and judge for ourselves. McCann is hitting above his head right now. He won't lead the league in hitting I promise you that. We also have a surplus of young pitching talent that the Braves wish they had. We'll be in much better shape than the Braves in 2 to 3 years. By the way, Bush is doing a great job, too bad you just don't get it. However, this is not a political thread. That stuff doesn't belong here. Dude learn to do your quotes right. I didn't say any of the above.
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