Ethier too... I just think Kemp might be easier to obtain at this point

Ethier too... I just think Kemp might be easier to obtain at this point

 

agreed completely on that point.

 

Wasnt guzman struggling for them too this year?

I still would love to go after Hunter Pence over Chris Young.... but either those two or Matt Kemp would be just fine with me

 

and besides, Hunter Pence and I were born on the same day/year :mischief

 

 

Pence is a projected LF

 

Weaknesses:

Some scouts wonder if more advanced pitchers will take advantage of Pence?s hitch by pounding him inside. Though he has played primarily center field in the minors, he?s destined for left. He doesn?t get good jumps and reads on fly balls, and his arm is below average.

BASEBALLAMERICA.COM

 

How about instead of trading for a CF (overspending for one...like many here want to do) why not move Hanley over to CF?

 

Trade Joe Borowski(and Herges if Texas want him) for Joaquin Arias and Armando Galarraga/Wes Littleton

 

So Hanley moves over to CF either Arias or Andino goes to short (both are in AAA already and young for the level) the loser of Andino/Arias become a UT man or goes to AAA where he can be later traded(some time in the future) to a team like lets say the Reds? Giants? Royals? Jays?

 

Just an idea

meh, Id rather keep Shadez at SS, unless we get another fantastic infield prospect ala Stephen Drew

How about the Astros Josh Anderson? Would take less to get than Pence.

How about the Astros Josh Anderson? Would take less to get than Pence.

 

seems like a worse version of Willy Taveras

Probably. Just putting a name out there...plus I have his stat page at roto on my favorites list for some reason.

When you say "sell" I assume you mean moving a Borowski, maybe Herges, etc. Or do you mean (excluding Cabs/Willis) trading existing starters or starting pitchers for more prospects?

 

Personally I don't see trading Borowski as "selling". Wonder if you or others agree?

 

I'm with you on this one. The team has always gone by the theory that anyone is tradeable if the deal was too good to be true. That is what it would take to trade anyone. Someone else said that Borowski adds some veteran leadership to the pen and I also agree with that, which is why I would hate to see him go. However, it may be the best thing we could do. Trading him will wrongly seem like we are sellers to those that just go by the ideals of "what have you done for me lately." I can't see how anyone would think we are serious WC contenders with this many rookies on the team. This year has always been about learning how to win. Never about winning it all. Comparing what Admin has done with our team in the past at this point in the season and what he may/will do this year is apples and oranges and completely unfair. This is like no other team we have had under this ownership and it's philisophies are completely different.

I really believe most people see that. For evidence of that just look at the attendance figures. South Florida teams in general never draw the crowds unless people know and see that that particular team is trying to make, or have made, the playoffs.

And why would we be buyers?? Because we are packing the place Loria should feel obligated to spend millions to get us closer to contention?? Because he "owes" us for how we have supported him in the past??? None of the above because none of the above is true. It is because if we don't become buyers "I am going to stomp my feet, throw a huge tantrum, and not go to the games." Whoop-de-doo. We will see those fans once this team becomes serious contenders again. Until then I find it pretty nice being able to cruise on in to my parking place and right out on the turnpike directly after the games. It kinda makes me feel like they are playing their hearts out just for me.

I agree with alot of Bob's comments, especially the last, and he echoes my thoughts about what is the real lesson to be learned (by the team) this year.

 

That said, as I read through some of the trading ideas being thrown around here in this thread and another I've come to the conclusion many here have forgotten that pitching especially starting pitching is coin of the realm in major league baseball and we have four rookie starting pitchers who ALL have winning records.

 

If you were to make even Nolasco or Sanchez out there as tradebait, there probably aren't ten major league prospects that we couldn't get in return.

 

So valuable is a quality rookie starting pitcher with six+ years of service time ahead of him, you can ask for the moon and the other team would happily throw in Venus as well. Nolasco's performance last night puts him into the same group as Johnson and Olsen, and Sanchez isn't far behind.

 

So you guys worry about how much we'd have to give up to get a middling performing Chris Young all you want, I'm comforted in knowing we're in the driver's seat, the shoe is on the other foot.

 

The real question is...what else besides Chris Young could the Diamondbacks offer that would entice the Marlins to accept their offer for one of our major league-proven rookie starting pitchers.

I love young and I love your ideas there but I really think you are still over-rating them. I agree with you about olsen being off limits. But I think JJ shouldnt be made available either. But if we could slip nolasco + a west or Volstad I might have to consider that quickly.

 

I would love to get my hands on one of their CF or OF prospects. Quentin, Young, Upton (slim to no chance), any of them even Gonzo kid they have.

 

But they need to make a run before I think they would consider it else I see them selling off Green and pulling up young/quentin.

 

I think Nolasco and West is very fair for Chris Young, although my train of thought is we can give up 1 SP with JJ/Anibal versus multiple by having to 'go down' to Nolasco. He's easily the "worst" of the 4 rotation rookies, but West is currently our top pitching prospect in the minors.... Either way, it's good value going back and forth and helps both clubs.

 

I don't think Arizona needs to make a run to make a trade. Arizona is rebuilding, they just need young starters. Good luck getting some quality arms for Luis Gonzalez and Shawn Green (who they will have to eat contract). They are going to have to part with one of those young outfielders to get some young arms at some point. We have the best young arms avaliable. I see Young as most avaliable because Justin Upton projects to replace him in 2 years regardless, they have Quentin locked in RF, and as you said the Gonzalez kid can fill LF without issues. Brynes/Davanon/and Green if not traded (Luis Gonzalez off the books this season) at the break can easily fill LF/CF until the two younger ones are completely ready in 2 years. They'd be looking pretty good adding some arms to their Webb/Owings/Nippert young core. In fact, they need to.

 

And I don't think I'm overating Chris Young at all. He has always had a .500 slugging with a .260 batting average, and his OBP has always been .350+. He's been consistent at all levels which I view as very positive. If he starts hitting .280-.290 when he turns 25/26 which is a distinct possibility because he has very good plate discipline and the K's aren't outrageous, watch out.

 

If the asking price for Chris Young include JJ, Olsen, or Sanchez, then the we should not go after Chris Young.

 

Chris Young hasnt been to MLB yet and is hitting .264 in a hitters league. He isn't worth any of those 3 IMO. If Petit, Gaby H and/or Pinto arent enough, oh well.

 

Andrew Jones is a career .267 hitter. I think he's a pretty good offensive CF. Young exhibits the same OBP and SLUG prowess. Probably not develop longterm into a 50 HR maniac, but annual 25+ seems well in reach. You don't need to hit .290 to be a good baseball player.

 

Young is a top 10-15 prospect in all of baseball right now, the # 3 CF behind Justin Upton and Milledge, both of whom are basically unavaliable (unless of course you want to give the Mets Dontrelle). Young is avaliable for young pitching, we have excess young pitching, and chances are we won't have an opportunity to get a CF this good in the future. No brainer.

 

Petit, Gaby, and Pinto will not get use any sort of CF. Maybe Jeremy Reed in the off season, or Wily Taveras. Junk. I don't want to be 'cute' in any trades. Just give up one of the freaking pitchers, and get the CF we did not acquire in the post 2005 trades. It's literally the final piece to the puzzle (I don't think catching is a major issue with Olivo having 3 years of arbitration, and the reality catcher is not an offensive position and you can win with a light hitting catcher if he can play defense and call games).

 

So valuable is a quality rookie starting pitcher with six+ years of service time ahead of him, you can ask for the moon and the other team would happily throw in Venus as well. Nolasco's performance last night puts him into the same group as Johnson and Olsen, and Sanchez isn't far behind.

 

So you guys worry about how much we'd have to give up to get a middling performing Chris Young all you want, I'm comforted in knowing we're in the driver's seat, the shoe is on the other foot.

 

The real question is...what else besides Chris Young could the Diamondbacks offer that would entice the Marlins to accept their offer for one of our major league-proven rookie starting pitchers.

 

I think Nolasco is a good step behind Olsen, Anibal, and Johnson, but he does look like a fine 3/4 long term.

 

I'm proactive. We have a major problem, and we can fix it very easily. I'm glad your comforted knowing we're in the driver's seat, but we won't be until Reggie is outta here in my opinion.

 

The only other players that make sense from the DBacks are Miguel Montero, a good looking AA catcher, or "shooting for the moon" and going all out for Justin Upton (and I think only one pitcher we have makes them not hang up the phone about him, and his name is Dontrelle).

Petit and Gaby Hernandez could get you Chris Young. He is actually the 23rd ranked prospect according to BA, not top 10. Trading the #60 prospect in Petit and a Gaby H should be more than enough. Or Nolasco/Gaby.

 

JJ is our best pitcher this season. Olsen has the most potential. Sanchez is going to be very important in the rotation next year. No way should they go, or even be made available for that matter, for a guy with not 1 MLB at bat.

Help me here Lou, I pray I have misunderstood you.

 

You are not equating the value of an untested nineteen year old A level CFer who's batting .275 with middling power to Dontrelle Willis? Please tell your last sentence was a typo or you meant he would be included with Montero and Young as the basis of opening negotiations with the Marlins for Willis' services.

 

You can't really believe Upton is worth Willis.

 

I understand Upton comes with credentials up the wazoo, but come on that's really a stretch isn't it?

I've said this before, so apologies upfront for repeating myself but, acknowledging Beinfest is probably right about our wildcard chances (whether we're 4.5 or 7 games back), the most important thing this team can do this season is learn how to win (and good teams find ways to win), and to that end any trade he makes should be made with learning that lesson in mind.

 

For young teams, as we know from watching the Fish 2000-2003, that was the hardest lesson of that crop of players to learn.

 

If somehow this team can walk off the field after their last game in September at or above .500 it's the physchological equivalent of winning the world series, not to mention guaranteeing Joe Girardi Manager of the Year.

 

Nonetheless, I'm still scoreboard watching.

 

You forgot 1998 and 1999. Those are very important years.

Petit and Gaby Hernandez could get you Chris Young. He is actually the 23rd ranked prospect according to BA, not top 10. Trading the #60 prospect in Petit and a Gaby H should be more than enough. Or Nolasco/Gaby.

 

JJ is our best pitcher this season. Olsen has the most potential. Sanchez is going to be very important in the rotation next year. No way should they go, or even be made available for that matter, for a guy with not 1 MLB at bat.

 

You still think Petit is 60? No way. Go ask DBacks fans if they would take Petit/Gaby and you'd get laughed at. He ain't # 23 anymore. A lot of guys ahead of him have graduated and he's having a very good season in the minors.

 

Nolasco/Gaby, MAYBE. We should run to do that if they'd take it. That would be tremendous.

 

Help me here Lou, I pray I have misunderstood you.

 

You are not equating the value of an untested nineteen year old A level CFer who's batting .275 with middling power to Dontrelle Willis? Please tell your last sentence was a typo or you meant he would be included with Montero and Young as the basis of opening negotiations with the Marlins for Willis' services.

 

You can't really believe Upton is worth Willis.

 

I understand Upton comes with credentials up the wazoo, but come on that's really a stretch isn't it?

 

It's the same thing with the Mets, who would have only parted with Milledge if no other prospects were included in the Delgado deal, and the money was cut in half too. I think Willis opens the door to Upton, not a 1-1 if that is what you think I meant. We'd get something else, like Montero and a good third player as well, but Arizona would need the "superstar" for a guy who is considered the # 2 prospect in all of baseball. Not one of our high potential and relatively unproven young arms.

 

The point was though, Upton and Milledge are probably not avaliable unless either of those teams has a Scott Kazmir moment with trading. Chris Young though, they would move him for the right package of SP and he isn't trailing those two very far on the prospect landscape.

He's still not worth Olsen, Johnson, or Sanchez.

 

.264 in a hitters league and putrid against LHP.