July 23, 200620 yr Here's my 2 cents...... Willy will come out of his offensive slump. Slumps happen. But to call him an average defender is a slap in the face to LF's in the league. He takes bad routes to 60% of the balls hit to left, never gets a good read on the ball off the bat to begin with and forget it if its hit to left center field......its like watching a JV game. Could we make a run at another title in 08' or 09' with a glaring defensive liabilty in LF? I dont know.
July 23, 200620 yr I think that Hammer can be the Marlins long-term answer in LF for several reasons. Through all his stops in the minors he hit and hit with power he has also shown at times he still can in the Show. As for being an old prospect he was held back so he could learn to catch, now why the Marlins haven't put him there with at least some frequency is beyond me. I know from having watched Hammer play in A and AA he can play just about anywhere give him some more time in the OF and I believe he'll improve his defense.
July 23, 200620 yr I've followed Willingham's career in the minors and I think he's capable of a season like this.... .300, 20-25 HR, 70-80 RBI (70-80 walks). Therefore, I believe he's just getting used to being an everyday player. I'd still like to try him at catcher for a few games but I doubt that happens now with Olivo playing like an all star. His minor league career OPS is .918 so he has a chance to be very good.
July 23, 200620 yr Could we make a run at another title in 08' or 09' with a glaring defensive liabilty in LF? I dont know. Boston seems to be doing alright. But seriously concerning the thread, there is nothing wrong with Willingham. He is who he is. He will hit better then this slump, but thinking anything more then .260/.340/.450 for his career line will be pushing it. That's still a quality bat, and as most have said in the thread, has more value in the AL as a 4-5 times a week starter at DH, 1B, LF, or if someone wants to experiment and have him catch a game or two a week. I don't think he's the long term answer for us, but I don't think he is a liability by any stretch or a position to worry about. We need to figure out our CF situation, grab a young catcher even if we choose to stick with Olivo for another year or two (Langley is years away, Hayes is probably not the answer), and make sure all our pitching prospects develop to their projections. There is always a LF around for cheap if Willingham falls apart the next few years, guys like Harvey and Restko don't pan out, or we trade him. Matt Stairs is hitting .263/.354/.444 and making $1.3 million. Nothing wrong with that. And if we see Hickman in the bigs before 2010, I'll consider that a huge success.
July 23, 200620 yr I've followed Willingham's career in the minors and I think he's capable of a season like this.... .300, 20-25 HR, 70-80 RBI (70-80 walks). Therefore, I believe he's just getting used to being an everyday player. I'd still like to try him at catcher for a few games but I doubt that happens now with Olivo playing like an all star. His minor league career OPS is .918 so he has a chance to be very good. Yeah, I have no doubts that we wouldn't be hearing one complaint about his hitting if he was catching. (And only a small uptick in complaints about hsi defense over what Olivo gets). But that position is taken care of adequately for the time being.
July 23, 200620 yr I've followed Willingham's career in the minors and I think he's capable of a season like this.... .300, 20-25 HR, 70-80 RBI (70-80 walks). Therefore, I believe he's just getting used to being an everyday player. I'd still like to try him at catcher for a few games but I doubt that happens now with Olivo playing like an all star. His minor league career OPS is .918 so he has a chance to be very good. Yeah, I have no doubts that we wouldn't be hearing one complaint about his hitting if he was catching. (And only a small uptick in complaints about hsi defense over what Olivo gets). But that position is taken care of adequately for the time being. In the long-term I don't see him as the answer because of his awful defense, not his offense. I'm willing to make a final judgement on his offense in another year. But I've made up my mind on his defense. He stinks. He'd be a liability at any position. Unless you just have some hunch or feeling of some sort, what gives you the idea that he'd be adequate at catcher? That experiment already failed in spring training when they tried to stick him there to hide his lousy defense everywhere else.
July 23, 200620 yr I'd trade Olivo before Willingham, just because his value is higher, and the highest it will ever be. Higher than Willinghams currently. Move Willingham to C. He might not throw runners out quite as well, but his defense would be just as good.
July 23, 200620 yr I'd trade Olivo before Willingham, just because his value is higher, and the highest it will ever be. Higher than Willinghams currently. Move Willingham to C. He might not throw runners out quite as well, but his defense would be just as good. I think Willingham would be even more of a disaster at catcher than he is in leftfield, but we'll probably never know. To say he would be just as good as Olivo defensively is ridiculous.
July 23, 200620 yr Willingham made alot of progress behind the plate. And Olivo is not good defensively. So it's not much of a stretch.
July 23, 200620 yr Willingham made alot of progress behind the plate. And Olivo is not good defensively. So it's not much of a stretch. I know it is pointless to argue with you about Olivo. I'll just say it would be less of a stretch to say Willingham might be as good at Matt LeCroy behind the plate for all we have seen of his catching abilities and leave it at that.
July 23, 200620 yr I'd trade Olivo before Willingham, just because his value is higher, and the highest it will ever be. Higher than Willinghams currently. Move Willingham to C. He might not throw runners out quite as well, but his defense would be just as good. I think Willingham would be even more of a disaster at catcher than he is in leftfield, but we'll probably never know. To say he would be just as good as Olivo defensively is ridiculous. I agree with your post. I can only add that the thought of Willy catching? the ball on every pitch is scary. At least in LF he gets lost except for the 3-4 times a game he gets a chance to embarass himself or run into a teammate.
July 24, 200620 yr It seems like when we talk about what this team needs for the future everyone talks about CF and catcher. I actually have been impressed by Olivo and hope we can keep him around. Center field is another story. But isn't anyone concerned about Willingham in left? To me he just doesn't look like the long-term answer. Since May 1 Josh is hitting .238 with 6 home runs and 25 RBI in 57 games played. That works out to 17 HR and 71 RBI when projected over a full 162 games. Is that enough out of a LF who is a liability defensively? Am I wrong in thinking we should use some of our pitching depth to acquire a LF for the future? Josh's batting stats are low but he looks like he has loads of potential as a LF he's had a lot of web gems out there this year but he needs to learn to call people off for a fly ball! He's colided with the CF alot. As for batting he looks potentially to be a .300 hitter with 30 HR and a 100 RBIs. But if he doesn't work out we always got Cody Ross.
July 24, 200620 yr Could we make a run at another title in 08' or 09' with a glaring defensive liabilty in LF? I dont know. Boston seems to be doing alright. But seriously concerning the thread, there is nothing wrong with Willingham. He is who he is. He will hit better then this slump, but thinking anything more then .260/.340/.450 for his career line will be pushing it. That's still a quality bat, and as most have said in the thread, has more value in the AL as a 4-5 times a week starter at DH, 1B, LF, or if someone wants to experiment and have him catch a game or two a week. I don't think he's the long term answer for us, but I don't think he is a liability by any stretch or a position to worry about. We need to figure out our CF situation, grab a young catcher even if we choose to stick with Olivo for another year or two (Langley is years away, Hayes is probably not the answer), and make sure all our pitching prospects develop to their projections. There is always a LF around for cheap if Willingham falls apart the next few years, guys like Harvey and Restko don't pan out, or we trade him. Matt Stairs is hitting .263/.354/.444 and making $1.3 million. Nothing wrong with that. And if we see Hickman in the bigs before 2010, I'll consider that a huge success. :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol Im sorry MarlinsLou. But I couldnt help myself. Did you just compare Willingham to Manny??? If Willingham put up Manny's offensive numbers we would not be having this conversation. But he doesnt. Manny's follies in LF are overcome by his bat that he slams baseballs around with. Josh is certainly no Manny at the plate but he is no better defensively in LF.
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