December 5, 200619 yr Even if totally healthy, I see Johnson putting up better numbers than both Olsen and Anibal in 2007. But here is something completely different as far as a Rocco trade goes ? package Miguel Olivo with Nolasco and Jacobs in a trade to the D'Rays for Baldelli, Dioner Navarro and Edwin Jackson. The pros and cons of trading Nolasco and Jacobs have been discussed ad nauseum, so I won't get into that. As far as trading Olivo goes, I see this as selling while his stock is high. As far as Navarro and Jackson go, both of their stocks have fallen substainally since their days of being top prospects. Navarro showed some regression at the plate last season and is, I believe, out of options. Also, opinions seem to differ on his defensive capabilities. While the Marlins would be taking a chance on Navarro considering his performance at the plate with the D'Rays last season, this switch hitting catcher is still only 22 years old. While not necessarily the Marlins catcher of the future, I think this is a gamble that the Marlins might want to look into taking. With Jackson, a former top SP prospect, could turn into a decent reliever for the Marlins if Kranitz can help improve his command. 1) You name the terms, and I'll take that bet/ 2) If the Rays, as I think most of us here realize, won't take Nolasco and Jacobs for Baldelli, why on earth would adding Olivo get Jackson and Navarro in there? There's no way that happens. The DRays want pitching, they don't want to move it. To get Baldelli and just Baldelli we're going to have to move Nolasco with an A+ prospect arm, or JJ with a lesser prospect, or Olsen/Sanchez one for one. Anything less and it's not getting done, and if it does, we fleeced 'em.
December 5, 200619 yr To get Baldelli and just Baldelli we're going to have to move Nolasco with an A+ prospect arm... Do we have A+ arms left other than Volstad? Do West/Thompson/Petit qualify? Because I'd absolutely swap Nolasco and one of them in a second.
December 5, 200619 yr To get Baldelli and just Baldelli we're going to have to move Nolasco with an A+ prospect arm... Do we have A+ arms left other than Volstad? Do West/Thompson/Petit qualify? Because I'd absolutely swap Nolasco and one of them in a second. depends on whom you ask which qualifies as what. West and volstad are the two best arms considered by most. But Idont think they want to move one of them.
December 5, 200619 yr To get Baldelli and just Baldelli we're going to have to move Nolasco with an A+ prospect arm... Do we have A+ arms left other than Volstad? Do West/Thompson/Petit qualify? Because I'd absolutely swap Nolasco and one of them in a second. I'd think West does. My group would be West/Thompson/Volstad and possibly Sinkbeil just because of his fast-track status.
December 5, 200619 yr sinkbel cant be traded till after the draft I believe? (9 months from signing date for PTBNL)
December 5, 200619 yr The problem is, as we discussed this weekend, Tampa Bay is not the right trading partner.
December 5, 200619 yr some do disagree with you assestment from this weekend and the premise that it was made under. I think they could be a very good fit for a trading partner and what the marlins need could be had there.
December 5, 200619 yr The problem is, as we discussed this weekend, Tampa Bay is not the right trading partner. We are looking for a CF'er (Baldelli, Upton, Crawford). Tampa wants pitching and first base. The teams match up fine. It comes down to what will the Marlins be willing to part with. I would offer up Josh Johnson or Ricky Nolasco in a deal. I would not deal Olsen or Sanchez.
December 5, 200619 yr http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...rtnered=rss_fla More Baldelli info http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/12/mlbc...omment-26146434 has the rumors as well
December 5, 200619 yr The problem is, as we discussed this weekend, Tampa Bay is not the right trading partner. We are looking for a CF'er (Baldelli, Upton, Crawford). Tampa wants pitching and first base. The teams match up fine. It comes down to what will the Marlins be willing to part with. I would offer up Josh Johnson or Ricky Nolasco in a deal. I would not deal Olsen or Sanchez. Actually it's the opposite. They need us much more than we need them.
December 5, 200619 yr The problem with including a top SP prospect such as Volstad or West in a deal for Baldelli is that the D'Rays have their own crop of very talented SP prospects that project to be MLB ready around the same time as them. To get Baldelli, we will have to deal vets or MLB-ready prospects. As far as the deal I mentioned before, maybe that was asking too much. I could see the Marlins possibly dropping Jackson and trading Nolasco, Jacobs and Olivo for Baldelli and Navarro. This would be a big risk/reward trade, but I think it is a trade the Marlins would have to pull the trigger on.
December 5, 200619 yr The problem is, as we discussed this weekend, Tampa Bay is not the right trading partner. We are looking for a CF'er (Baldelli, Upton, Crawford). Tampa wants pitching and first base. The teams match up fine. It comes down to what will the Marlins be willing to part with. I would offer up Josh Johnson or Ricky Nolasco in a deal. I would not deal Olsen or Sanchez. Actually it's the opposite. They need us much more than we need them. That's short sited. In a year's time, we'll be very much in the same position as them...facing diminished trade value because of an over abundance of players. By opening day next year, it's not a stretch to assume (if no moves are made) we'll have up to 8 starting pitchers ready or ready to "make the jump." Willis Olsen Sanchez Nolasco Johnson Garcia Petit Hernandez with Volstad, West, Thompson and Sinkbeil waiting in the wings. I realize a lot can happen in a year, but I think it'd be tough to watch all this talent work its way into a 70 cents on the dollar situation next offseason.
December 5, 200619 yr The problem is, as we discussed this weekend, Tampa Bay is not the right trading partner. We are looking for a CF'er (Baldelli, Upton, Crawford). Tampa wants pitching and first base. The teams match up fine. It comes down to what will the Marlins be willing to part with. I would offer up Josh Johnson or Ricky Nolasco in a deal. I would not deal Olsen or Sanchez. Actually it's the opposite. They need us much more than we need them. That's short sited. In a year's time, we'll be very much in the same position as them...facing diminished trade value because of an over abundance of players. By opening day next year, it's not a stretch to assume (if no moves are made) we'll have up to 8 starting pitchers ready or ready to "make the jump." Willis Olsen Sanchez Nolasco Johnson Garcia Petit Hernandez with Volstad, West, Thompson and Sinkbeil waiting in the wings. I realize a lot can happen in a year, but I think it'd be tough to watch all this talent work its way into a 70 cents on the dollar situation next offseason. I don't think the Marlins have to worry about dealing from a position of weakness due to an over abundance of vets and MLB-ready SP prospects, especially if the kind of money thrown around this offseason for back end of the rotation starting pitchers continues or escalates next year and beyond.
December 5, 200619 yr The problem is, as we discussed this weekend, Tampa Bay is not the right trading partner. We are looking for a CF'er (Baldelli, Upton, Crawford). Tampa wants pitching and first base. The teams match up fine. It comes down to what will the Marlins be willing to part with. I would offer up Josh Johnson or Ricky Nolasco in a deal. I would not deal Olsen or Sanchez. Actually it's the opposite. They need us much more than we need them. That's short sited. In a year's time, we'll be very much in the same position as them...facing diminished trade value because of an over abundance of players. By opening day next year, it's not a stretch to assume (if no moves are made) we'll have up to 8 starting pitchers ready or ready to "make the jump." Willis Olsen Sanchez Nolasco Johnson Garcia Petit Hernandez with Volstad, West, Thompson and Sinkbeil waiting in the wings. I realize a lot can happen in a year, but I think it'd be tough to watch all this talent work its way into a 70 cents on the dollar situation next offseason. I don't think the Marlins have to worry about dealing from a position of weakness due to an over abundance of MLB-ready pitching talent, especially if the kind of money thrown around this offseason for back end of the rotation starting pitchers continues or escalates next year and beyond. This is not a trend, it's a fluke offseason much like the 2000 offseason that saw Hampton, Manny etc. cash in. The market will continue to escalate, but not at this rapid pace. Regardless, in a market place that is going bonanza for back of the rotation starters, it isn't a stretch to say that someone like Ricky Nolasco will never have higher value than they do now, to say nothing of someone like Scott Olsen, Josh Johnson or Anibal Sanchez. It's erroneous to wait to sell when very real value is presenting itself in the present. We're not mortgaging the future here, we're looking at at least 7 players more than we have spots to fill, at the most we'll be parting with 3 of them, more likely two, still giving us an abundance of pitching to do with what we will next year in a a market that may or may not value pitching more than it does currently.
December 5, 200619 yr Because you say it doesn't make it so Swift. There's nothing short-sighted about stockpiling major league ready pitching. Personally, the more I watch what's happening with Adam Eaton getting $25 million, and some of these ridiculous signings, I hope Admin drafts five more pitchers in next year's draft (said to make a point). A year from now that talent of ours will be worth considerably more and their (Devil Rays) talent worth less as more and more position players they either drafted or acquired in ill-conceived trades come on to the scene and have nowhere to play. They have seven guys right now to play the outfield and Upton is getting pushed out of the infield because there's three new guys coming up who need a place to play. It's sinful the talent they have and how they are mis-magaing it. There's 28 teams (I exclude the White Sox) who want what we have but I don't see a mad rush from any other teams to acquire Tampa's positional talent. Eventually Tampa will be forced to firesale some of them just to get something for them. You understand it isn't that Tampa's players aren't talented. They just have too many for too few positions and like the great old Walt Disney movie where Mickey Mouse is the sorceror's apprentice and the washbrooms keep multiplying, that's what's happening in Tampa Bay right now. Pitching on the otherhand, and especially dirt cheap pitching with major league experience will be worth a king's ransom next year. What's Johnson worth in the winter 2007 with two winning seasons under his belt and a $400k paycheck due him in 2008? The answer is, anything we want. And more.
December 5, 200619 yr What's Johnson worth in the winter 2007 with two winning seasons under his belt and a $400k paycheck due him in 2008? For argument's sake, there is a chance Johnson doesnt have a winning 2007
December 5, 200619 yr What's Johnson worth in the winter 2007 with two winning seasons under his belt and a $400k paycheck due him in 2008? For argument's sake, there is a chance Johnson doesnt have a winning 2007 So replace Johnson's name with Olsen, or Sanchez...you full well know the point.
December 5, 200619 yr What's Johnson worth in the winter 2007 with two winning seasons under his belt and a $400k paycheck due him in 2008? For argument's sake, there is a chance Johnson doesnt have a winning 2007 So replace Johnson's name with Olsen, or Sanchez...you full well know the point. But I have a feeling that Olsen and Sanchez are viewed higher in front office's eyes than Johnson's.
December 5, 200619 yr What's Johnson worth in the winter 2007 with two winning seasons under his belt and a $400k paycheck due him in 2008? For argument's sake, there is a chance Johnson doesnt have a winning 2007 So replace Johnson's name with Olsen, or Sanchez...you full well know the point. But I have a feeling that Olsen and Sanchez are viewed higher in front office's eyes than Johnson's. Ramp do you really not get the point? Or are you just busting my balls? Maybe you think starting pitching won't have much value next winter. Is that you're thinking?
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