August 2, 200719 yr Can someone post Cabrera's VORP stat? Ask and you shall receive. Top 5 Position Players (By VORP) 1. Miguel Cabrera - 59.8 2. Hanley Ramirez - 58.5 3. Alex Rodriguez - 57.4 4. Chase Utley - 53.7 5. Magglio Ordonez - 52.8 More like 1. David Wright- 1,000,000 2. Jose Reyes- 999,999 (plus a billion "excitement points") 3. Miguel Cabrera- 59.8 (plus a hundred thousand "fatty points") 4. Hanley Ramirez- 58.5 (plus like 4,000 million hundred "lolo he'z bad at teh defenses" points) 5. Alex Rodriguez- 57.4 (plus like 9384737327472742 "choke points")
August 2, 200719 yr Can someone post Cabrera's VORP stat? Ask and you shall receive. Top 5 Position Players (By VORP) 1. Miguel Cabrera - 59.8 2. Hanley Ramirez - 58.5 3. Alex Rodriguez - 57.4 4. Chase Utley - 53.7 5. Magglio Ordonez - 52.8 Thanks Crimson. Wow, Miggy has a higher VORP than A-Rod? :o Do you have to be a member of Baseball Prospectus to get these stats? I think its more of WOW Hanley has a higher VORP than A-Rod. That's because VORP grades players on a curve based on what position they play. It's think it's kind of a joke because of it but it is what it is.
August 2, 200719 yr Can someone post Cabrera's VORP stat? Ask and you shall receive. Top 5 Position Players (By VORP) 1. Miguel Cabrera - 59.8 2. Hanley Ramirez - 58.5 3. Alex Rodriguez - 57.4 4. Chase Utley - 53.7 5. Magglio Ordonez - 52.8 Thanks Crimson. Wow, Miggy has a higher VORP than A-Rod? :o Do you have to be a member of Baseball Prospectus to get these stats? I think its more of WOW Hanley has a higher VORP than A-Rod. That's because VORP grades players on a curve based on what position they play. It's think it's kind of a joke because of it but it is what it is. Why s it a joke? A shortstop who hits 30 homers is much more valuable than a 1st baseman who hits 30 homers. Position scarcity is a big reason why Hanley's such a valuable player. If Hanley were a left fielder he wouldn't be nearly as valuable. Numbers aren't put up in a vacuum. You have to take their position (as well as the park and era) into account when judging a player's worth, because if not then the best players in the league will consistently be 1st basemen and corner outfielders. There is more pressure on a SS defensively than any other position (except catcher), so they tend tonot much up as good numbers offensively. It makes perfect sense, and I don't see how you can say it's a joke except for the fact that you hate any stat that isn't OPS RISP.
August 2, 200719 yr Can someone post Cabrera's VORP stat? Ask and you shall receive. Top 5 Position Players (By VORP) 1. Miguel Cabrera - 59.8 2. Hanley Ramirez - 58.5 3. Alex Rodriguez - 57.4 4. Chase Utley - 53.7 5. Magglio Ordonez - 52.8 More like 1. David Wright- 1,000,000 2. Jose Reyes- 999,999 (plus a billion "excitement points") 3. Miguel Cabrera- 59.8 (plus a hundred thousand "fatty points") 4. Hanley Ramirez- 58.5 (plus like 4,000 million hundred "lolo he'z bad at teh defenses" points) 5. Alex Rodriguez- 57.4 (plus like 9384737327472742 "choke points") :lol Good stuff man.
August 2, 200719 yr Can someone post Cabrera's VORP stat? Ask and you shall receive. Top 5 Position Players (By VORP) 1. Miguel Cabrera - 59.8 2. Hanley Ramirez - 58.5 3. Alex Rodriguez - 57.4 4. Chase Utley - 53.7 5. Magglio Ordonez - 52.8 More like 1. David Wright- 1,000,000 2. Jose Reyes- 999,999 (plus a billion "excitement points") 3. Miguel Cabrera- 59.8 (plus a hundred thousand "fatty points") 4. Hanley Ramirez- 58.5 (plus like 4,000 million hundred "lolo he'z bad at teh defenses" points) 5. Alex Rodriguez- 57.4 (plus like 9384737327472742 "choke points") You left out a trillion "Met points" each for Wright and Reyes.
August 2, 200719 yr Can someone post Cabrera's VORP stat? Ask and you shall receive. Top 5 Position Players (By VORP) 1. Miguel Cabrera - 59.8 2. Hanley Ramirez - 58.5 3. Alex Rodriguez - 57.4 4. Chase Utley - 53.7 5. Magglio Ordonez - 52.8 More like 1. David Wright- 1,000,000 2. Jose Reyes- 999,999 (plus a billion "excitement points") 3. Miguel Cabrera- 59.8 (plus a hundred thousand "fatty points") 4. Hanley Ramirez- 58.5 (plus like 4,000 million hundred "lolo he'z bad at teh defenses" points) 5. Alex Rodriguez- 57.4 (plus like 9384737327472742 "choke points") You left out a trillion "Met points" each for Wright and Reyes. Met points don't count in VORP. Only "True Yankee Average" and "Grittiness", of which none of the 5 aforementioned players have.
August 2, 200719 yr Can someone post Cabrera's VORP stat? Ask and you shall receive. Top 5 Position Players (By VORP) 1. Miguel Cabrera - 59.8 2. Hanley Ramirez - 58.5 3. Alex Rodriguez - 57.4 4. Chase Utley - 53.7 5. Magglio Ordonez - 52.8 More like 1. David Wright- 1,000,000 2. Jose Reyes- 999,999 (plus a billion "excitement points") 3. Miguel Cabrera- 59.8 (plus a hundred thousand "fatty points") 4. Hanley Ramirez- 58.5 (plus like 4,000 million hundred "lolo he'z bad at teh defenses" points) 5. Alex Rodriguez- 57.4 (plus like 9384737327472742 "choke points") You left out a trillion "Met points" each for Wright and Reyes. Met points don't count in VORP. Only "True Yankee Average" and "Grittiness", of which none of the 5 aforementioned players have. Odd. I could have sworn Met points counted in everything, maybe not.
August 2, 200719 yr bobbob, if you said that Hanley is having a better year relative to other SS than ARod's year relative to other 3B I may or may not agree with you, that would be debatable, but to flat out say that Hanley is having a better year than ARod is retarded because: - ARod has a higher OBP - ARod has a higher SLG - ARod has a higher OPS - ARod has a higher RISP OBP - ARod has a higher RISP SLG - ARod has a higher RISP OPS
August 2, 200719 yr bobbob, if you said that Hanley is having a better year relative to other SS than ARod's year relative to other 3B I may or may not agree with you, that would be debatable, but to flat out say that Hanley is having a better year than ARod is retarded because: - ARod has a higher OBP - ARod has a higher SLG - ARod has a higher OPS - ARod has a higher RISP OBP - ARod has a higher RISP SLG - ARod has a higher RISP OPS I don't think anyone is debating that ARod is having a better year. We're debating whether or not one is more valuable or not to the team via the value over replacement player.
August 2, 200719 yr Author Ahhh, your forgetting first place points so its morelike Wright 2,000,000 Reyes 1,999,999
August 2, 200719 yr bobbob, if you said that Hanley is having a better year relative to other SS than ARod's year relative to other 3B I may or may not agree with you, that would be debatable, but to flat out say that Hanley is having a better year than ARod is retarded because: - ARod has a higher OBP - ARod has a higher SLG - ARod has a higher OPS - ARod has a higher RISP OBP - ARod has a higher RISP SLG - ARod has a higher RISP OPS Average shortstop: .280/.336/.422 .758 Average third base: .284/.356/.482 0.838 That's a big difference. Arod: .295/.404/.626 1.030 OPS Hanley: .339/.392/.564 .954 OPS The difference between Hanley and the average SS is greater than the difference between Arod and the average third baseman. Though admittedly the difference isn't much in overall OPS, the ratio is more significant.
August 2, 200719 yr bobbob, if you said that Hanley is having a better year relative to other SS than ARod's year relative to other 3B I may or may not agree with you, that would be debatable, but to flat out say that Hanley is having a better year than ARod is retarded because: - ARod has a higher OBP - ARod has a higher SLG - ARod has a higher OPS - ARod has a higher RISP OBP - ARod has a higher RISP SLG - ARod has a higher RISP OPS Average shortstop: .280/.336/.422 .758 Average third base: .284/.356/.482 0.838 That's a big difference. Arod: .295/.404/.626 1.030 OPS Hanley: .339/.392/.564 .954 OPS The difference between Hanley and the average SS is greater than the difference between Arod and the average third baseman. Though admittedly the difference isn't much in overall OPS, the ratio is more significant. I don't know where you're getting those numbers from but I have the numbers per ESPN below and the difference is not a large as you claim it is. It's only .045 OPS points, not the .080 you claim. Are your numbers "luck" adjusted or something? SS Average: .328 .400 .729 3B Average: .338 .437 .774 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...ng&type=reg http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...ng&type=reg
August 3, 200719 yr bobbob, if you said that Hanley is having a better year relative to other SS than ARod's year relative to other 3B I may or may not agree with you, that would be debatable, but to flat out say that Hanley is having a better year than ARod is retarded because: - ARod has a higher OBP - ARod has a higher SLG - ARod has a higher OPS - ARod has a higher RISP OBP - ARod has a higher RISP SLG - ARod has a higher RISP OPS Average shortstop: .280/.336/.422 .758 Average third base: .284/.356/.482 0.838 That's a big difference. Arod: .295/.404/.626 1.030 OPS Hanley: .339/.392/.564 .954 OPS The difference between Hanley and the average SS is greater than the difference between Arod and the average third baseman. Though admittedly the difference isn't much in overall OPS, the ratio is more significant. I don't know where you're getting those numbers from but I have the numbers per ESPN below and the difference is not a large as you claim it is. It's only .045 OPS points, not the .080 you claim. Are your numbers "luck" adjusted or something? SS Average: .328 .400 .729 3B Average: .338 .437 .774 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...ng&type=reg http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...ng&type=reg lol luck doesn't exist in baseball, dude. everything that happens is purely based on skill and year to year fluxuations are explainable by a player losing ability. I got my numbers from baseball-almanac.com. They took the average numbers from the player from each team who logged the most at bats at that position. This is why the numbers are different. Hey dude, continue your war against baseballprospectus, it's kind of cute how you hate everything they've ever done. If you can't understand why a shortstop with a .954 OPS and 30 stolen bases (and only 3 GDP, compared to Arod's 11) who plays in a pitcher's park int he NL isn't at least as valuable as a third baseman with a 1.030 OPS in the AL in a neutral park then thats cool. I understand. I'm not saying Arod's having an awful year, or that Hanley is hand's down having a better year, I'm just saying, due to position scarcity and home park and league factors, Hanley is slightly more valuable. He plays in a league where each run is worth slightly more because the it takes less runs to win a game. All of these factors come together and possibly give Hanley a slight edge.
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