I think the marlins need a new hitting coach, Ugs has the potential to have Utley caliber, but he strikes out WAY to much. He also will develope better fielding in time on his own. Beside Hanman and Miggy the Marlins Strike out a sh*t am I wrong?

Hey fellas. Your boys overacheived last season. The by far surpassed ANYONES including yours, mine, the medias whoever expectations. Now they are performing the way, with the same team (pretty much) as everyone thought they would. Blame your ownership for firing your manager. Or for not building on Cabs and hanley. The personel on the team is what it is. they should be praised for last season because they were an anomoly and over achieved, and should not be hated no because they are what they are. Until your ownership raises its budget, and your fans start paying for tickets it wont change.

 

I personally belive that if they stick in the miami market for a few more years the young kids that are growing up loving the marlins will be old enough to have kids that will love them, building a bigger fan base. Miami is as fickle as it comes (lived there for 5 years no offense) it will take time. I know you postersw on the board care, but it needs to be WAY more than just you guys.

 

I hope this doesnt anger you. It isnt meant to.

This team could easily have performed as well as last season's if Johnson, Nolasco, and Sanchez had stayed healthy this season. Just look at their game logs and you will see how accountable they were for a large portion of our wins last season. On top of that, Dontrelle Willis is regressing at a astronomical rate. You really can't place much blame on Beinfest, Loria, Gonzalez, etc. Most of it is just bad luck.

 

 

Well maybe we need to wait until next season to see if.. Last year was an anomoly, or this year was....

I don't know about moving Jacobs. He is cheap, young and I don't think he would have much value. His possible future production is higher than his possible future return in a trade.

Hmmm maybe but we lost leiber and Garcia this year, pitchers that people know about. We have also used the farm pulling up kendrick from double A to start and Durbin who got off waivers to start. I do know your starters have been injured, but they weren't non replaceable. Willis has sh*t the bed... Problem. Olsen has has his person porblems and has cause him to sh*t the bed. That is the major problem.

 

I do follow the team close, I know you go through centerfielders like strippers at tootsie go through condoms. I also know that you guys lucked into Kim because he did a solid job for guys, but let hum go to save a whole 800,000 bucks. So don't cry me the pitching blues. My team has the worst ERA in the NL.

Knowing who the player is, is irrelevant. And those pitchers were absolutely non-replaceable. Injuries certainly happen to every team, but the Marlins lost just not the aforementioned JJ, Anibal, and Nolasco combo who were (at least) penciled in for 450-500 innings this year, but have had long stretches without Hermida, Jacobs, C. Ross, Boone, and I guess De Aza, which would have made this offense even better. Laugh at them all you want, but those are all very useful players. You can blame Beinfest for having to have Borchard/Linden/Abercrombie, but that's about it. Plus the pen has been banged up pretty good with nearly all of them going on the 15 day DL at some point or another. Could have been a lot better. Only Oakland has probably had worse injury luck than the Marlins this year.

 

However, we were never going to be a playoff team this year with the pitchers, and perfect health in the lineup, so I'm not worrying. 80 wins was going to be tough. We have a ridiculous core of young hitters that's easily the best in baseball, and just wait till the MLB pitchers are healthy and our 4-5 premium SP prospects are ready. 2009 is not going to be a good year for the rest of the NL East. And nothing that's happened this season, is really changing that.

Hey fellas. Your boys overacheived last season. The by far surpassed ANYONES including yours, mine, the medias whoever expectations. Now they are performing the way, with the same team (pretty much) as everyone thought they would. Blame your ownership for firing your manager. Or for not building on Cabs and hanley. The personel on the team is what it is. they should be praised for last season because they were an anomoly and over achieved, and should not be hated no because they are what they are. Until your ownership raises its budget, and your fans start paying for tickets it wont change.

 

I personally belive that if they stick in the miami market for a few more years the young kids that are growing up loving the marlins will be old enough to have kids that will love them, building a bigger fan base. Miami is as fickle as it comes (lived there for 5 years no offense) it will take time. I know you postersw on the board care, but it needs to be WAY more than just you guys.

 

I hope this doesnt anger you. It isnt meant to.

This team could easily have performed as well as last season's if Johnson, Nolasco, and Sanchez had stayed healthy this season. Just look at their game logs and you will see how accountable they were for a large portion of our wins last season. On top of that, Dontrelle Willis is regressing at a astronomical rate. You really can't place much blame on Beinfest, Loria, Gonzalez, etc. Most of it is just bad luck.

 

 

Well maybe we need to wait until next season to see if.. Last year was an anomoly, or this year was....

 

That will be difficult to prove either way.

 

For one, Josh Johnson will likely miss all of 2008. There is no telling on whether or not Sanches will stay healthy. Dontrelle Willis may not ever return to form.

 

If the Marlins were smart they need to start moving talent and give themselves a major shakeup (perhaps Willis and Jacobs) if they wish to have a serious run next season.

 

 

they could have moved willis for bourn and carsco. The phillies reportedly offered that to them. Bourn is WAY better than any CF option you have now. Carsco is a Pitcher that looks like he could be a #1 at best but def a top 3 in the rotation pither.... Personally i'm on the fencel. I think a change o f scenery would have helped willis, but if not then the deal wouldnt be worth it for the phills. especially with rowands likely departure w/ free agencey.

Hey fellas. Your boys overacheived last season. The by far surpassed ANYONES including yours, mine, the medias whoever expectations. Now they are performing the way, with the same team (pretty much) as everyone thought they would. Blame your ownership for firing your manager. Or for not building on Cabs and hanley. The personel on the team is what it is. they should be praised for last season because they were an anomoly and over achieved, and should not be hated no because they are what they are. Until your ownership raises its budget, and your fans start paying for tickets it wont change.

 

I personally belive that if they stick in the miami market for a few more years the young kids that are growing up loving the marlins will be old enough to have kids that will love them, building a bigger fan base. Miami is as fickle as it comes (lived there for 5 years no offense) it will take time. I know you postersw on the board care, but it needs to be WAY more than just you guys.

 

I hope this doesnt anger you. It isnt meant to.

This team could easily have performed as well as last season's if Johnson, Nolasco, and Sanchez had stayed healthy this season. Just look at their game logs and you will see how accountable they were for a large portion of our wins last season. On top of that, Dontrelle Willis is regressing at a astronomical rate. You really can't place much blame on Beinfest, Loria, Gonzalez, etc. Most of it is just bad luck.

 

 

Well maybe we need to wait until next season to see if.. Last year was an anomoly, or this year was....

 

That will be difficult to prove either way.

 

For one, Josh Johnson will likely miss all of 2008. There is no telling on whether or not Sanches will stay healthy. Dontrelle Willis may not ever return to form.

 

If the Marlins were smart they need to start moving talent and give themselves a major shakeup (perhaps Willis and Jacobs) if they wish to have a serious run next season.

 

Dude no disrespect intended.

 

Our pen was horible to begin with. We lost Madson in the begining of the year to an oblique strain. Move myers from our ACE to the pen. Blows out his shoulder. Missed the whole season till about 2 weeks ago. Gordon went out most of the year. Madson down again. Rosario hurts his shoulder out of the pen. Starter garceia, Shoulder, GOne. Leiber. Foot/ anke GOne. You can't say that the phillies haven't had the same problems....

Hey fellas. Your boys overacheived last season. The by far surpassed ANYONES including yours, mine, the medias whoever expectations. Now they are performing the way, with the same team (pretty much) as everyone thought they would. Blame your ownership for firing your manager. Or for not building on Cabs and hanley. The personel on the team is what it is. they should be praised for last season because they were an anomoly and over achieved, and should not be hated no because they are what they are. Until your ownership raises its budget, and your fans start paying for tickets it wont change.

 

I personally belive that if they stick in the miami market for a few more years the young kids that are growing up loving the marlins will be old enough to have kids that will love them, building a bigger fan base. Miami is as fickle as it comes (lived there for 5 years no offense) it will take time. I know you postersw on the board care, but it needs to be WAY more than just you guys.

 

I hope this doesnt anger you. It isnt meant to.

This team could easily have performed as well as last season's if Johnson, Nolasco, and Sanchez had stayed healthy this season. Just look at their game logs and you will see how accountable they were for a large portion of our wins last season. On top of that, Dontrelle Willis is regressing at a astronomical rate. You really can't place much blame on Beinfest, Loria, Gonzalez, etc. Most of it is just bad luck.

 

 

Well maybe we need to wait until next season to see if.. Last year was an anomoly, or this year was....

 

That will be difficult to prove either way.

 

For one, Josh Johnson will likely miss all of 2008. There is no telling on whether or not Sanches will stay healthy. Dontrelle Willis may not ever return to form.

 

If the Marlins were smart they need to start moving talent and give themselves a major shakeup (perhaps Willis and Jacobs) if they wish to have a serious run next season.

 

Dude no disrespect intended.

 

Our pen was horible to begin with. We lost Madson in the begining of the year to an oblique strain. Move myers from our ACE to the pen. Blows out his shoulder. Missed the whole season till about 2 weeks ago. Gordon went out most of the year. Madson down again. Rosario hurts his shoulder out of the pen. Starter garceia, Shoulder, GOne. Leiber. Foot/ anke GOne. You can't say that the phillies haven't had the same problems....

the following Marlins have seen DL time this year for more than the 15 days

 

Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Mike Jacobs, Aaron Boone, Alejandro De Aza, Jeremy Hermida, Anibal Sanchez, Henry Owens, Logan Kensing, Carlos Martinez, Cody Ross

Hey fellas. Your boys overacheived last season. The by far surpassed ANYONES including yours, mine, the medias whoever expectations. Now they are performing the way, with the same team (pretty much) as everyone thought they would. Blame your ownership for firing your manager. Or for not building on Cabs and hanley. The personel on the team is what it is. they should be praised for last season because they were an anomoly and over achieved, and should not be hated no because they are what they are. Until your ownership raises its budget, and your fans start paying for tickets it wont change.

 

I personally belive that if they stick in the miami market for a few more years the young kids that are growing up loving the marlins will be old enough to have kids that will love them, building a bigger fan base. Miami is as fickle as it comes (lived there for 5 years no offense) it will take time. I know you postersw on the board care, but it needs to be WAY more than just you guys.

 

I hope this doesnt anger you. It isnt meant to.

This team could easily have performed as well as last season's if Johnson, Nolasco, and Sanchez had stayed healthy this season. Just look at their game logs and you will see how accountable they were for a large portion of our wins last season. On top of that, Dontrelle Willis is regressing at a astronomical rate. You really can't place much blame on Beinfest, Loria, Gonzalez, etc. Most of it is just bad luck.

 

 

Well maybe we need to wait until next season to see if.. Last year was an anomoly, or this year was....

 

That will be difficult to prove either way.

 

For one, Josh Johnson will likely miss all of 2008. There is no telling on whether or not Sanches will stay healthy. Dontrelle Willis may not ever return to form.

 

If the Marlins were smart they need to start moving talent and give themselves a major shakeup (perhaps Willis and Jacobs) if they wish to have a serious run next season.

 

Dude no disrespect intended.

 

Our pen was horible to begin with. We lost Madson in the begining of the year to an oblique strain. Move myers from our ACE to the pen. Blows out his shoulder. Missed the whole season till about 2 weeks ago. Gordon went out most of the year. Madson down again. Rosario hurts his shoulder out of the pen. Starter garceia, Shoulder, GOne. Leiber. Foot/ anke GOne. You can't say that the phillies haven't had the same problems....

the following Marlins have seen DL time this year for more than the 15 days

 

Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Mike Jacobs, Aaron Boone, Alejandro De Aza, Jeremy Hermida, Anibal Sanchez, Henry Owens, Logan Kensing, Carlos Martinez, Cody Ross

 

utley, Howard, Garcia, Leiber, Victorino, Bourn, Barjas, Rosario, madson, myers, gordon, I maybe forgetting a few, but sheesh.

I don't think anyone is really debating that the Philadelphia rotation isn't much better than ours has been, but if you are going to call the Marlins a fluke in 2006, one very telling counter-argument is that the ERA of our starting pitching has gone from 5th in MLB to 24th. That is a pretty considerable drop, don't you think?

 

 

It could be man, Seriously last season with your roster... did you have any hope?(not many other people did) Maybe sh*t is just catching up? Gerardi get the axe also? C'mon. Not trying to take anything away if anything I am making a legitmate excuse.

I don't think anyone is really debating that the Philadelphia rotation isn't much better than ours has been, but if you are going to call the Marlins a fluke in 2006, one very telling counter-argument is that the ERA of our starting pitching has gone from 5th in MLB to 24th. That is a pretty considerable drop, don't you think?

 

 

It could be man, Seriously last season with your roster... did you have any hope?(not many other people did) Maybe sh*t is just catching up? Gerardi get the axe also? C'mon. Not trying to take anything away if anything I am making a legitmate excuse.

injuries have killed us

 

we've had a makeshift rotation for the entire year pretty much

I don't think anyone is really debating that the Philadelphia rotation isn't much better than ours has been, but if you are going to call the Marlins a fluke in 2006, one very telling counter-argument is that the ERA of our starting pitching has gone from 5th in MLB to 24th. That is a pretty considerable drop, don't you think?

 

 

It could be man, Seriously last season with your roster... did you have any hope?(not many other people did) Maybe sh*t is just catching up? Gerardi get the axe also? C'mon. Not trying to take anything away if anything I am making a legitmate excuse.

injuries have killed us

 

we've had a makeshift rotation for the entire year pretty much

 

 

we got that dude... Phills and marlins. Trying to find a deeper root the problem..

The HAS to be one wit a less than 50 mill payroll.. With the talent you guys have with the Shitbox payroll if you jacked it up a little bit imagine the holes you could fill.

I don't think anyone is really debating that the Philadelphia rotation isn't much better than ours has been, but if you are going to call the Marlins a fluke in 2006, one very telling counter-argument is that the ERA of our starting pitching has gone from 5th in MLB to 24th. That is a pretty considerable drop, don't you think?

 

 

It could be man, Seriously last season with your roster... did you have any hope?(not many other people did) Maybe sh*t is just catching up? Gerardi get the axe also? C'mon. Not trying to take anything away if anything I am making a legitmate excuse.

I'll be on the record as one of the few who predicted the Marlins NOT to suck before the year last night.

 

When you have gotten nothing from 2/5 of your rotation last year (Sanchez and Johnson) and another 2/5 of it has been average at best (Olsen and Willis), what do you excpet to happen?

I don't think anyone is really debating that the Philadelphia rotation isn't much better than ours has been, but if you are going to call the Marlins a fluke in 2006, one very telling counter-argument is that the ERA of our starting pitching has gone from 5th in MLB to 24th. That is a pretty considerable drop, don't you think?

 

 

It could be man, Seriously last season with your roster... did you have any hope?(not many other people did) Maybe sh*t is just catching up? Gerardi get the axe also? C'mon. Not trying to take anything away if anything I am making a legitmate excuse.

I'll be on the record as one of the few who predicted the Marlins NOT to suck before the year last night.

 

When you have gotten nothing from 2/5 of your rotation last year (Sanchez and Johnson) and another 2/5 of it has been average at best (Olsen and Willis), what do you excpet to happen?

 

Once again man

Hamels our only constant.

Our Ace Myers moved to the pen and got hurt

Left us with moyer, who incedently only pitches well againt the marlins

Eaton He Stinks worst starter in the legue

Garcia Bad shouler gone

Leiber Bad foot gone

Kyle Kendrick Called him up from double A... Has pitched nice, Luckily, but the same russian roulette you guys ave played for years with pitchers.

Duribin. Waived 3 times this season made 3 starts in the pen

Lohse.. Did okay toninght we'll see.

 

Bull pen

 

Meyers goes in Shoulder Gone most of the season just returned

Madson out twice, including now

Flash gordon. Gone most season, back, can pitch ever other day at most.

Rosario Down

That leaves us with a bunch of guys who no one has ever heard of... cept for

Alfonseca.... Please, he walks a ton of people

Jose Mesa? 50+ years old?

 

 

That is with a 90 million dollar payroll. You cant possibly complain about your no name players..... I mean sh*t guys c',mon. You gave to blame ownership at some point. or turn around and point the fingers at your own fan base.

Just a few thoughts:

 

 

We Bad News Bear.

 

 

These losses don't bother me anymore. Too many injuries clustered together and a digustingly horrible defensive team are a recipe for many more losses than wins.

 

 

According to my calculations, Jacobs has set the record for futility by a Marlin by going 0-31 or so. Willis was pretty bad but he accounted for half the runs the entire offense put up and his prior 3 starts were very good ones.

 

 

And lastly, things could be worse, we could be the Dodgers right now.

Another aspect that is hurting our chances this year is the team's refusal to give up on Miguel Olivo, who is probably the worst starting catcher in MLB. A streaky hitter his whole career, he began to wear down by the end of last season and has not picked it up since. Having him hit behind our middle of the order guys who get on base a fair clip, has prevented our offsense from maximizing its run production.

 

 

haha even I want to kick olivo in the nuts.

Also, it is worth noting that Adam "worst starter in the league" Eaton has more wins and a lower WHIP than the Marlins "ace" Dontrelle Willis does.

 

 

Then we start talking about Ryan Howard, which people get pissed about... All I hear is cabbs this Cabbs That....

Hate to break it to ya, but Howard i carrying this season since utleys injury, and carried last season when utley slumped. It makes the team where it is today.

 

 

You say Cabrera, I say Howard

You say Hanley, I say Utley

 

 

 

Those seem to be the 2 cornerstones of both team eh? imagine them Combined? Howard Utley Hanley Miggy?

Willis isnt pitching like an ace. That dead horse has been beaten to a pulp.

 

 

Many baseball people contend that he is injured. We'll know for sure after his first 4-5 starts of 2008.

 

 

Measuring a pitchers worth by the number of wins they have is definitely not worth noting.

Also, it is worth noting that Adam "worst starter in the league" Eaton has more wins and a lower WHIP than the Marlins "ace" Dontrelle Willis does.

 

 

that is a stretch or is it consider Eaton has huge contract the next 2 seasons after this?

 

Is it funny I mention Dtrain a former 20 game winner? That stuff didnt just disapear. It is still there.

I don't think anyone is really debating that the Philadelphia rotation isn't much better than ours has been, but if you are going to call the Marlins a fluke in 2006, one very telling counter-argument is that the ERA of our starting pitching has gone from 5th in MLB to 24th. That is a pretty considerable drop, don't you think?

 

 

It could be man, Seriously last season with your roster... did you have any hope?(not many other people did) Maybe sh*t is just catching up? Gerardi get the axe also? C'mon. Not trying to take anything away if anything I am making a legitmate excuse.

I'll be on the record as one of the few who predicted the Marlins NOT to suck before the year last night.

 

When you have gotten nothing from 2/5 of your rotation last year (Sanchez and Johnson) and another 2/5 of it has been average at best (Olsen and Willis), what do you excpet to happen?

 

Once again man

Hamels our only constant.

Our Ace Myers moved to the pen and got hurt

Left us with moyer, who incedently only pitches well againt the marlins

Eaton He Stinks worst starter in the legue

Garcia Bad shouler gone

Leiber Bad foot gone

Kyle Kendrick Called him up from double A... Has pitched nice, Luckily, but the same russian roulette you guys ave played for years with pitchers.

Duribin. Waived 3 times this season made 3 starts in the pen

Lohse.. Did okay toninght we'll see.

 

Bull pen

 

Meyers goes in Shoulder Gone most of the season just returned

Madson out twice, including now

Flash gordon. Gone most season, back, can pitch ever other day at most.

Rosario Down

That leaves us with a bunch of guys who no one has ever heard of... cept for

Alfonseca.... Please, he walks a ton of people

Jose Mesa? 50+ years old?

 

 

That is with a 90 million dollar payroll. You cant possibly complain about your no name players..... I mean sh*t guys c',mon. You gave to blame ownership at some point. or turn around and point the fingers at your own fan base.

I don't think the Marlins overrachieved very much at all last year. They got off to a VERY slow start, but once they all got their sea-legs the talent showed.

 

Yeah, you have 90 mil. dollar payroll. Cut it in half. Then cut it in half again. Now see where you are. You have very little room for error there, and when your starting rotation collapses on you there is nothing you can do. The Marlins haven't had 1 guy this year they can count on every 5th day and give you a quality start. Willis should be that guy, but whether it be injury or whatever it hasn't been there.

 

Last year Sanchez, Johnson, and Nolasco combined for 33 wins. This year they have made 14 combined starts. How can any team, much less a team with that small of a payroll expect to overcome that? Last year Olsen and Willis posted 4.04 and 3.87 ERA's respectively, this year their ERAs are up to 5.43 and 4.98. It's just impossible for anyteam to overcome that.

Dontrelle Willis was bottom of the barrel in run support in 2006.

 

 

Tonite he WAS HIS OWN run support

look im not trying to pick a fight. If anything I want you to rise up and get people to support the team. This way ownership will spend money to keep a floridian NL east team. That way I can see my fighten phills. My point is, with more money you can have depth, Like I pointed out with our injuries which should be as devistating as yours, you can still compete. For whatever reason miami peiople (for the most part not all) are sh*tty fans. The phightens have has just as many, and maybe more crucial injuiries, but can still compete. It is up to YOU the phans no to make aplogies, but effectively show the ownership that you car to see a good product on the field. I dont see where we are misscomunicating.

look im not trying to pick a fight. If anything I want you to rise up and get people to support the team. This way ownership will spend money to keep a floridian NL east team. That way I can see my fighten phills. My point is, with more money you can have depth, Like I pointed out with our injuries which should be as devistating as yours, you can still compete. For whatever reason miami peiople (for the most part not all) are sh*tty fans. The phightens have has just as many, and maybe more crucial injuiries, but can still compete. It is up to YOU the phans no to make aplogies, but effectively show the ownership that you car to see a good product on the field. I dont see where we are misscomunicating.

I don't see where anyone is insinuating that you are picking a fight. We just know our team better than you do and disagree with some of the things you are saying.

 

And you can't even begin to understand the situation regarding the fans/stadium/Miami/ownership down there, becuase despite all of the theories, no one really does.

 

 

from 2002, 2007 i livexd at 1055 ne 2nd pl Miami Fl 33161

 

I understand... Trust me.

 

I understand that they cant spend millions because even w/ the heat and the dolphins the fans only show up when the team is in a tight race or in the playoffs. Im not blind.

I suggest we trade our rotation for the entire year injuries and everything with the phillies and lets see which team would have the better record

I suggest we trade our rotation for the entire year injuries and everything with the phillies and lets see which team would have the better record

considering our team era is 4.70 and yours is 4.69....... I doubt it would change much.

The marlins lead the league in errors, that may have something to do with it...

 

Your 3B has 18 errors

Your SS has 16 errors

The bats are Great no doubt, but that is rediculous.

 

Cabrera has no business being a 3rd basemen with the weigt he put on. He needs to be moved to first. I know I will be flamed for that, but it is the truth.