October 28, 200718 yr yes, but more importantly, they both were leadoff hitters that set the table with their speed. More importantly, Granderson set the table with 84 extra base hits and didn't run his teams out of innings going 26/27 in SB. Basically my point. we are in agreement, granderson is better than pierre... youd have to be out of your mind to think otherwise. that is exactly what the fish need.
October 28, 200718 yr Can it not be that they are different players at different stages of their careers? I would submit, putting aside perhaps only his arm, any GM in baseball would gladly have on his team a vintage 2003-2004 Juan Pierre to perform a specific task, and that Granderson, who at least for me is more comparable to Hanley Ramirez than Juan Pierre, is just beginning what will probably be a long and very productive career. But shouldn't and doesn't diminish Pierre's best work. Frankly, I see so little in common between the two I don't even know why the comparison would be made except they both can play CF. There are very few if any "perfect" ballplayers and regardless of the perpetual talk about this guy and that guy being five a tool player, every guy who every donned a uniform is flawed in some way or another.
October 28, 200718 yr Pierre's best work isnt that great. He played every game and was fast, but had a weak arm, awful OBP ability, and absolutely no power whatsoever.
October 28, 200718 yr Pierre's best work isnt that great. He played every game and was fast, but had a weak arm, awful OBP ability, and absolutely no power whatsoever. Sure. :banghead Those 221 hits in 2004 with .324 BA, a just abyssmal OBP of .374 and .781 OPS really stunk up the joint. But then, I wouldn't have expected less from you.
October 28, 200718 yr Yawn. Pierre led the league in outs in 2003. There's plenty right with him if you use the Fischer Price mindset, but he often completely nullifies his value by swinging at everything and running at a very low success rate. But, sure, he's fast. Yay.
October 28, 200718 yr I'd take Juan Pierre's 2003 .361 OBP everyday of the week from the lead-off position. He led the league in outs because he led the league in plate appearances. I know it's fun to rag on the players who the media portrays as these all-star players despite very crappy statistics, but JP's 2003 season is what we should want from a lead-off hitter. He got on-base at a pretty decent clip and that's exactly what you want from that position in the line-up.
October 28, 200718 yr The reason he has awful OBP ability is because if you take hits out of the equation, he is essentially non existent. Any prolonged slump with the bat, and he is useless to the team because he is just doesnt get on base successfully in any other fashion.
October 29, 200718 yr Yawn. Pierre led the league in outs in 2003. There's plenty right with him if you use the Fischer Price mindset, but he often completely nullifies his value by swinging at everything and running at a very low success rate. But, sure, he's fast. Yay. Like I was saying...thank you so much Swift, you made my point exactly. Somehow I knew it would be you. :thumbup
October 29, 200718 yr I'd take Juan Pierre's 2003 .361 OBP everyday of the week from the lead-off position. He led the league in outs because he led the league in plate appearances. I know it's fun to rag on the players who the media portrays as these all-star players despite very crappy statistics, but JP's 2003 season is what we should want from a lead-off hitter. He got on-base at a pretty decent clip and that's exactly what you want from that position in the line-up. took the words out of my mouth, so to speak
October 29, 200718 yr I'd take Juan Pierre's 2003 .361 OBP everyday of the week from the lead-off position. He led the league in outs because he led the league in plate appearances. I know it's fun to rag on the players who the media portrays as these all-star players despite very crappy statistics, but JP's 2003 season is what we should want from a lead-off hitter. He got on-base at a pretty decent clip and that's exactly what you want from that position in the line-up. Yes, Pierre's career year, which occurred at precisely the peak age for non-power hitters was on the low end of acceptable for a lead-off hitter. Granderson has power, speed and defense, and his power game should expand over the next four seasons rather than the decline that a player like Juan Pierre predictably has in the late 20s - early 30s. Also, he can throw the ball. Lead off hitters should bring an OBP of .370+ (preferably .380+) and something else to the team (like a 85%+ SB%, or gold glove defense, or some power, or a .400+ OBP). I love JP, he is a key part of a favorite Marlins memory, but lets not pretend that he is what he isn't.
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