He had some great K/BB rates that really showed off his potential in the minors.

 

I could care less about "batting average."

 

Do you care about On Base Percentage? Because you failed to acknowledge this fairly interesting statistical comparison:

 

Hanley Career Minor Leage OBP - .351

Emilio Career Minor Leage OBP - .341

 

K/BB is important, but so is getting on base.

 

The point is you said "he never showed much at the minor league level" and that is probably an exaggeration. The BB/K ratio is important, but it is definitely not the only way someone can 'show something' in the minors.

 

I agree with JRD that the EB hatred is over-the-top and often very sophomoric.

 

Bonifacio is purely a slap hitter, though, who relies on his speed to be valuable. For him, it's even more important to put the ball in play/be able to draw walks.

 

Hanley showed more power potential in the minors...not to mention he was also extremely young, at pretty much at every level he played in. Hanley was getting AB's in AA at the age of 20.

Bonifacio is purely a slap hitter, though, who relies on his speed to be valuable. For him, it's even more important to put the ball in play/be able to draw walks.

 

Well considering all that, BA is probably a fairly relevant statistic.

 

Hanley showed more power potential in the minors...not to mention he was also extremely young, at pretty much at every level he played in. Hanley was getting AB's in AA at the age of 20.

 

Yea, Hanley's lines always have, and always will look better than EB's. But the small difference between his and EB's career minor league OBP (.010) is pretty interesting, and I'd actually never noticed it before.

Bonifacio is purely a slap hitter, though, who relies on his speed to be valuable. For him, it's even more important to put the ball in play/be able to draw walks.

 

Well considering all that, BA is probably a fairly relevant statistic.

 

Hanley showed more power potential in the minors...not to mention he was also extremely young, at pretty much at every level he played in. Hanley was getting AB's in AA at the age of 20.

 

Yea, Hanley's lines always have, and always will look better than EB's. But the small difference between his and EB's career minor league OBP (.010) is pretty interesting, and I'd actually never noticed it before.

 

The average shows that he can get his fair share of hits, at times, but it really is less relevant if he can't draw a walk to save his life.

 

.OBP is a lot more important than his batting average.

He had some great K/BB rates that really showed off his potential in the minors.

 

I could care less about "batting average."

 

Do you care about On Base Percentage? Because you failed to acknowledge this fairly interesting statistical comparison:

 

Hanley Career Minor Leage OBP - .351

Emilio Career Minor Leage OBP - .341

 

K/BB is important, but so is getting on base.

 

The point is you said "he never showed much at the minor league level" and that is probably an exaggeration. The BB/K ratio is important, but it is definitely not the only way someone can 'show something' in the minors.

 

I agree with JRD that the EB hatred is over-the-top and often very sophomoric.

 

Bonifacio is purely a slap hitter, though, who relies on his speed to be valuable. For him, it's even more important to put the ball in play/be able to draw walks.

 

Hanley showed more power potential in the minors...not to mention he was also extremely young, at pretty much at every level he played in. Hanley was getting AB's in AA at the age of 20.

Hanley did not show much power potential in the minors.

I'll agree that EB isn't the classic case to succeed in the majors. And his K/BB rate is troubling. However, that's not the end-all and be-all for a baseball player, even a leadoff batter. You're being very disingenuous to suggest that makes Emilio's complete minor league record subpar and undeserving of a look at the major league level. He needs work, but he is not entirely hopeless. And it's not the first time the Marlins utilized a leadoff hitter that was prone to hacking (100-plus strikeout Hanley recently, but also Carr had a similar reputation back in the day) or weak on-base skills (Pierre).

Also, the problem is not his strikeout rate (who cares how many times he strikes out if he gets on base at a decent clip? Why, because he's failing to give the pitcher a chance to take an extra base on a fielder's choice?), but the walk rate. Becoming a dynamic batter by utilizing the bunt and keeping an eye on the strike zone should be his focus, not this arcane understanding that a leadoff hitter should never strike out.

Hanley did not show much power potential in the minors.

I'll agree that EB isn't the classic case to succeed in the majors. And his K/BB rate is troubling. However, that's not the end-all and be-all for a baseball player, even a leadoff batter. You're being very disingenuous to suggest that makes Emilio's complete minor league record subpar and undeserving of a look at the major league level. He needs work, but he is not entirely hopeless. And it's not the first time the Marlins utilized a leadoff hitter that was prone to hacking (100-plus strikeout Hanley recently, but also Carr had a similar reputation back in the day) or weak on-base skills (Pierre).

Also, the problem is not his strikeout rate (who cares how many times he strikes out if he gets on base at a decent clip? Why, because he's failing to give the pitcher a chance to take an extra base on a fielder's choice?), but the walk rate. Becoming a dynamic batter by utilizing the bunt and keeping an eye on the strike zone should be his focus, not this arcane understanding that a leadoff hitter should never strike out.

 

 

Nice post. High strikeouts is not the issue as much as low walks, like you said. Also, a leadoff hitter really should be seeing a lot of pitches. It is important to set the tone early in the game, plus the guy with the most PAs should be seeing many pitches to wear a starter out. This is a big reason why I like Hermida at lead-off. High OBP and very patient. Draws many full counts. When the first batter of the game goes down on

He had some great K/BB rates that really showed off his potential in the minors.

 

I could care less about "batting average."

 

Do you care about On Base Percentage? Because you failed to acknowledge this fairly interesting statistical comparison:

 

Hanley Career Minor Leage OBP - .351

Emilio Career Minor Leage OBP - .341

 

K/BB is important, but so is getting on base.

 

The point is you said "he never showed much at the minor league level" and that is probably an exaggeration. The BB/K ratio is important, but it is definitely not the only way someone can 'show something' in the minors.

 

I agree with JRD that the EB hatred is over-the-top and often very sophomoric.

 

Bonifacio is purely a slap hitter, though, who relies on his speed to be valuable. For him, it's even more important to put the ball in play/be able to draw walks.

 

Hanley showed more power potential in the minors...not to mention he was also extremely young, at pretty much at every level he played in. Hanley was getting AB's in AA at the age of 20.

Hanley did not show much power potential in the minors.

I'll agree that EB isn't the classic case to succeed in the majors. And his K/BB rate is troubling. However, that's not the end-all and be-all for a baseball player, even a leadoff batter. You're being very disingenuous to suggest that makes Emilio's complete minor league record subpar and undeserving of a look at the major league level. He needs work, but he is not entirely hopeless. And it's not the first time the Marlins utilized a leadoff hitter that was prone to hacking (100-plus strikeout Hanley recently, but also Carr had a similar reputation back in the day) or weak on-base skills (Pierre).

Also, the problem is not his strikeout rate (who cares how many times he strikes out if he gets on base at a decent clip? Why, because he's failing to give the pitcher a chance to take an extra base on a fielder's choice?), but the walk rate. Becoming a dynamic batter by utilizing the bunt and keeping an eye on the strike zone should be his focus, not this arcane understanding that a leadoff hitter should never strike out.

Talking about disingenuous, Pierre didn't have "weak OBP skills" for the first two of the three years he was here. In 2003, he had a .359 OBP, the highest of any leadoff hitter in the league. In 2004 it was .374, once again the highest of any leadoff hitter in the league. In 2005, it was .326, which wasn't any good, but he was the leadoff hitter that year because of what he did in the first two years. Pierre had walk problems, but he was able to hit at a high enough clip that it didn't matter.

He had some great K/BB rates that really showed off his potential in the minors.

 

I could care less about "batting average."

 

Do you care about On Base Percentage? Because you failed to acknowledge this fairly interesting statistical comparison:

 

Hanley Career Minor Leage OBP - .351

Emilio Career Minor Leage OBP - .341

 

K/BB is important, but so is getting on base.

 

The point is you said "he never showed much at the minor league level" and that is probably an exaggeration. The BB/K ratio is important, but it is definitely not the only way someone can 'show something' in the minors.

 

I agree with JRD that the EB hatred is over-the-top and often very sophomoric.

 

Bonifacio is purely a slap hitter, though, who relies on his speed to be valuable. For him, it's even more important to put the ball in play/be able to draw walks.

 

Hanley showed more power potential in the minors...not to mention he was also extremely young, at pretty much at every level he played in. Hanley was getting AB's in AA at the age of 20.

Hanley did not show much power potential in the minors.

I'll agree that EB isn't the classic case to succeed in the majors. And his K/BB rate is troubling. However, that's not the end-all and be-all for a baseball player, even a leadoff batter. You're being very disingenuous to suggest that makes Emilio's complete minor league record subpar and undeserving of a look at the major league level. He needs work, but he is not entirely hopeless. And it's not the first time the Marlins utilized a leadoff hitter that was prone to hacking (100-plus strikeout Hanley recently, but also Carr had a similar reputation back in the day) or weak on-base skills (Pierre).

Also, the problem is not his strikeout rate (who cares how many times he strikes out if he gets on base at a decent clip? Why, because he's failing to give the pitcher a chance to take an extra base on a fielder's choice?), but the walk rate. Becoming a dynamic batter by utilizing the bunt and keeping an eye on the strike zone should be his focus, not this arcane understanding that a leadoff hitter should never strike out.

Talking about disingenuous, Pierre didn't have "weak OBP skills" for the first two of the three years he was here. In 2003, he had a .359 OBP, the highest of any leadoff hitter in the league. In 2004 it was .374, once again the highest of any leadoff hitter in the league. In 2005, it was .326, which wasn't any good, but he was the leadoff hitter that year because of what he did in the first two years. Pierre had walk problems, but he was able to hit at a high enough clip that it didn't matter.

Pierre's had weak on base skills for 5 years of his career. But as you said, he's awarded some benefit of the doubt and compensated his failings by offerign other skills. Thank you for proving my point there. (BTW, I think it's funny that you note Pierre's attributes while ignoring Emilio's obviously talented minor league statistics.)

 

Obviously, whether Pierre or Emilio, a leadoff batter should have good on-base skills. I think we can agree there. However, the point I was making was that they don't fit one mold. As you said Pierre got it done with a good average, Veras with walks, Castillo by extending the plate appearance, Hanley by being a dynamic hitter. Not every leadoff batter is or should be the same. And certainly not this idealized type that works the count, bunts for singles, beats out infield grounders, steals bases, never strikes out. Ballplayers come in all types - they have an unique set of talents. The focus for Emilio should be minor changes to his existing profile to increase his OBP. His record in the minor leagues and spring training has won him that trial despite the attempts to ignore his obvious qualifications.

Do you care about On Base Percentage? Because you failed to acknowledge this fairly interesting statistical comparison:

 

Hanley Career Minor Leage OBP - .351

Emilio Career Minor Leage OBP - .341

 

K/BB is important, but so is getting on base.

 

The point is you said "he never showed much at the minor league level" and that is probably an exaggeration. The BB/K ratio is important, but it is definitely not the only way someone can 'show something' in the minors.

 

I agree with JRD that the EB hatred is over-the-top and often very sophomoric.

 

 

Bonifacio is purely a slap hitter, though, who relies on his speed to be valuable. For him, it's even more important to put the ball in play/be able to draw walks.

 

Hanley showed more power potential in the minors...not to mention he was also extremely young, at pretty much at every level he played in. Hanley was getting AB's in AA at the age of 20.

Hanley did not show much power potential in the minors.

I'll agree that EB isn't the classic case to succeed in the majors. And his K/BB rate is troubling. However, that's not the end-all and be-all for a baseball player, even a leadoff batter. You're being very disingenuous to suggest that makes Emilio's complete minor league record subpar and undeserving of a look at the major league level. He needs work, but he is not entirely hopeless. And it's not the first time the Marlins utilized a leadoff hitter that was prone to hacking (100-plus strikeout Hanley recently, but also Carr had a similar reputation back in the day) or weak on-base skills (Pierre).

Also, the problem is not his strikeout rate (who cares how many times he strikes out if he gets on base at a decent clip? Why, because he's failing to give the pitcher a chance to take an extra base on a fielder's choice?), but the walk rate. Becoming a dynamic batter by utilizing the bunt and keeping an eye on the strike zone should be his focus, not this arcane understanding that a leadoff hitter should never strike out.

Talking about disingenuous, Pierre didn't have "weak OBP skills" for the first two of the three years he was here. In 2003, he had a .359 OBP, the highest of any leadoff hitter in the league. In 2004 it was .374, once again the highest of any leadoff hitter in the league. In 2005, it was .326, which wasn't any good, but he was the leadoff hitter that year because of what he did in the first two years. Pierre had walk problems, but he was able to hit at a high enough clip that it didn't matter.

Pierre's had weak on base skills for 5 years of his career. But as you said, he's awarded some benefit of the doubt and compensated his failings by offerign other skills. Thank you for proving my point there. (BTW, I think it's funny that you note Pierre's attributes while ignoring Emilio's obviously talented minor league statistics.)

 

Obviously, whether Pierre or Emilio, a leadoff batter should have good on-base skills. I think we can agree there. However, the point I was making was that they don't fit one mold. As you said Pierre got it done with a good average, Veras with walks, Castillo by extending the plate appearance, Hanley by being a dynamic hitter. Not every leadoff batter is or should be the same. And certainly not this idealized type that works the count, bunts for singles, beats out infield grounders, steals bases, never strikes out. Ballplayers come in all types - they have an unique set of talents. The focus for Emilio should be minor changes to his existing profile to increase his OBP. His record in the minor leagues and spring training has won him that trial despite the attempts to ignore his obvious qualifications.

I didn't ignore anyone's anything. My thing with Bonifacio is that he's never shown the ability to hit pitching up here and that his OBP is directly tied to his batting average. The leadoff spot, in my opinion, is no space for an experiment. Especially one that has been failing for a month.

I didn't ignore anyone's anything. My thing with Bonifacio is that he's never shown the ability to hit pitching up here and that his OBP is directly tied to his batting average. The leadoff spot, in my opinion, is no space for an experiment. Especially one that has been failing for a month.

 

You didn't ignore it, you flatly stated it when you said Emilio "hasn't really shown much at the minor league level". He has. And he's won a trial at the major league level. I agree the leadoff spot is too important for an experiment. And we need some improvement at the spot that Emilio may not be able to offer right now, but that's no reason to send him down, to the bench, or make false accusations against his obvious qualifications. Ideally, Emilio wouldn't have to experiment much - he has some talent and should be able to become a solid hitter even if not a great one or this pigeon-holed expectation of leadoff batters.

This team needs a brain transplant to be successful .

I didn't ignore anyone's anything. My thing with Bonifacio is that he's never shown the ability to hit pitching up here and that his OBP is directly tied to his batting average. The leadoff spot, in my opinion, is no space for an experiment. Especially one that has been failing for a month.

 

You didn't ignore it, you flatly stated it when you said Emilio "hasn't really shown much at the minor league level". He has. And he's won a trial at the major league level. I agree the leadoff spot is too important for an experiment. And we need some improvement at the spot that Emilio may not be able to offer right now, but that's no reason to send him down, to the bench, or make false accusations against his obvious qualifications. Ideally, Emilio wouldn't have to experiment much - he has some talent and should be able to become a solid hitter even if not a great one or this pigeon-holed expectation of leadoff batters.

You've got the wrong cat. Different person. Entirely separate human being.

 

Well, unless you ask trucanes.

Uggla needs to have balls fall in

Ross needs to hit his customary .800+ OPS

Nolasco needs to be solid

Bonifacio needs to visit New Orleans

 

Has some law been passed now that makes it illegal to not hate Emilio Bonifacio? Jeez, the amount of hate he gets here in relationship to the real slumpers like Uggla, Hermida, Ross & Nolasco is totally disproportionate. The guy's obviously improving (4 for 9 in Milwaukee) but it's still a case of "Send Bonifraudio/Bonifacio(ut) to New Orleans cos he's like the worst player ... like ... ever". Some people need to grow up.

 

Actually, a 5 game hit streak going right now. You have a point. It's not exactly the right time to do some Boni-hating. Wait until he is in a slump or at least isn't doing as well as some of the guys that are loved here no matter how badly they are playing. But you have to remember, he beat out a BGB for that 3B job. The hate will continue for a while yet. Remember the hate filled posts about Cantu last year at this time? Different type hitters, but they came by that job identically.

You mean a slump like a .198/.248/.215 stat line from the 6th game of the year on? That kind of slump?

Anyone who thinks that Ramirez would be better hitting lead-off has lost all baseball credibility from my perspective.