November 13, 200322 yr Lowell offer tied to Marlins ballpark By Mike Berardino Staff Writer Posted November 13 2003 PHOENIX -- Depending on your perspective, the Marlins have targeted either their poster child or their human shield in this latest push for a new stadium. "It's a wonderful PR move," said an industry source not involved in the discussions. "The Marlins would be saying, Here's Mike Lowell. We're giving him a four-year deal, but only if we get a stadium. If you want Mike Lowell, you've got to give us a stadium. We're the good guys.'" Contrary to published reports, sources said no binding dollar figures have been exchanged. One baseball source called the talks "very preliminary." Marlins President David Samson, who is taking an active role in the negotiations, has discussed the matter with Seth Levinson, one of Lowell's Brooklyn-based representatives. Neither Samson nor Levinson is attending this week's general managers meetings at the Arizona Biltmore Resort and Spa. Talks should continue in the coming days, but neither side expects an accord to be reached this week. Discussions could drag on until the winter meetings, Dec. 12-15 in New Orleans. According to sources familiar with the process, early talks regarding a contract extension for arbitration-eligible third baseman Mike Lowell have centered on a one-year deal. An additional three years, through 2007, would be contingent on the club getting a new stadium, presumably by its March 15 deadline. Levinson and his brother, Sam, declined comment on Lowell or Marlins second baseman Luis Castillo, who they also represent. According to industry sources, the Marlins have offered a three-year deal to Castillo, a two-time All-Star. The package is for between $15 million and $18 million, a slight annual raise over the $4.85 million Castillo made last year while pounding out a career-best 186 hits. Castillo, 28, is believed to be seeking a four-year deal, with the New York Yankees, New York Mets, Boston Red Sox and St. Louis Cardinals still expected to enter the bidding. As for free-agent catcher Pudge Rodriguez, industry sources said the Marlins were set to open the bidding at $15 million over two years. That's a far cry from the five-year, $50 million pact reportedly sought by the catcher's agent, Scott Boras, with whom the Marlins met Wednesday. Rodriguez, MVP of the National League playoffs, made an adjusted $9.3 million last season on a one-year deal. The market for his services appears limited at best. While Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria still had not authorized a 2004 payroll, teams that had talked with the Marlins said to expect a maximum of $60 million. That includes $11 million in deferred payments to Rodriguez ($3 million) and Atlanta pitcher Mike Hampton ($8 million) and would fall well short of the estimated $88 million it would take to retain the complete World Series champions. Industry sources said the Marlins plan to avoid taking on any more deferred salary this winter. The team's $137 million contribution to the stadium plan would be heavily financed by loans. Lowell, 30, is a two-time All-Star who recently won the Silver Slugger award as the game's top-hitting third baseman. Despite missing the final month of the regular season with a broken hand, he produced career highs of 32 home runs and 105 RBI. Lowell, a product of Coral Gables High and Florida International University, is extremely popular in South Florida and has made clear his desire to stay close to home. He made $3.7 million last season and could see that figure rise to $8 million or more through arbitration. With rookie Miguel Cabrera, a natural third baseman, exploding on the scene, the Marlins are eager to gauge the cost of retaining Lowell before deciding whether to put him on the trading block. Lowell can become a free agent after next season. It's unclear if any club has been able to escape a financial obligation to a player if its stadium plan fell apart, but player contracts tied to stadium plans have been approved at least twice before. When Charles Johnson returned to the Marlins as a free agent in December 2000, his five-year, $35 million deal included an out clause after one season if the stadium project fell through. Even after it did, Johnson chose not to opt for free agency. In November 2001, San Diego slugger Phil Nevin signed a four-year, $34 million extension with the Padres. Nevin's deal enabled him to demand a trade if ballpark construction failed to resume by the following Nov. 1 or the club publicly announced the park would not open during the 2004 season. Petco Park will be ready by Opening Day. Samson, meanwhile, will serve as master of ceremonies tonight in Miami when Lowell is honored as Person of the Year by the Hank Kline Boys & Girls Club. Friday in New York City, Samson and Sam Levinson will be honored by Sports Business Journal as two of the 40 most influential people in sports under 40. Garbage. I would hope that most fans would see this for what it is... A convuluded attempt to not only blackmail for a new stadium but also to deflect blame should they not be able to get a deal done. This is a bush league move. If you want a stadium go out and get in done, don't muddy the water with these low-life antics.
November 13, 200322 yr No, this makes sense. If the Marlins dont get a stadium, they wont have the money to afford Lowell, plain and simple. Does this put more pressure on getting a stadium? Yes. Does it make fiscal sense? Yes. Havent we come to expect that the Marlins are NOT going to overextend their finances and will go to any creative means possible to get the job done. Truthfully, I want the Marlins to have a new stadium. I also want to have Lowell retire a Marlin. That this deal is symbiotic does not strike at my anger. It makes sense. And cents.
November 13, 200322 yr No, this makes sense. If the Marlins dont get a stadium, they wont have the money to afford Lowell, plain and simple. If the Marlins are building a stadium for the next 4 years they are going to have LESS money to throw around. Not more. If you want Mike Lowell on your team for the next 3 or 4 years, sign him. If not, quit screwing around. "It's a wonderful PR move," said an industry source not involved in the discussions. "The Marlins would be saying, Here's Mike Lowell. We're giving him a four-year deal, but only if we get a stadium. If you want Mike Lowell, you've got to give us a stadium. We're the good guys.'" who the heck is the "you" this source is talking about? If YOU want Mike Lowell, YOU'VE got to give us a stadium? Who's this "you"? Miami's already putting up 70 million or whatever. And the state doesn't give a crap whether the Marlins have Mike Lowell or not. How does this put more pressure on getting a stadium jonnylons? The only ones under pressure are the Marlins. The city has already put up money, and the state could care less really. So who is feeling the pressure?
November 13, 200322 yr Brain Fillet don't you have a toliet to go swim in? :toilet Anyways do we have to go into why its crucial this team gets a new stadium? Its all about $$$ They are making an attempt to keep this team together but we all know that if they don't get a stadium its not going to happen. What's change? nothing! The baseball gods are giving this team another shot at keep a championship team together. This are the facts people THE TEAM CAN'T SURVIVE IN THAT STADIUM!! What's Garbage that the owner is putting in half and more with overruns to built a stadium? All its asking for is help to make it happen.Hey Brain Fillet we all know who you are :disguise2 and what your hidden agenda is behind posting on this board...Lets see you try to tell us fans that are team was garbage back in June? Right? You told us ownership should not be trusted because they don't want to win? Right? Now your tell us that this idea is garbage? Right? Boy you sound like those radio idiots who have no clue about the team or the sport. Let me clue you in on something moving Lowell NOW would be a great BASEBALL move. Lowell is a luxury you have Cabrera ready to move in and you'd get help in those areas where guys wouldn't return. Plus you wouldn't fall into that fatcat mentality in trying to make another run. When or Where does an owner or an organization anywhere let the public decide weather a team keeps a player or not. We don't want to hear it but its fact. The team might not need Lowell on the field (in peformance and wins and losses)bottomline but off of it...its a totally different story(in the stadium cause and PR come to play)
November 13, 200322 yr No, this makes sense. If the Marlins dont get a stadium, they wont have the money to afford Lowell, plain and simple. If the Marlins are building a stadium for the next 4 years they are going to have LESS money to throw around. Not more. How does this put more pressure on getting a stadium jonnylons? The only ones under pressure are the Marlins. The city has already put up money, and the state could care less really. So who is feeling the pressure? Hotcorner - you must have a pea brain. BTF Up. You dont know what the hell you are saying, much less be clear about where you stand on this issue. The pressure in getting a stadium is there - whether you admit it or not. This team, this franchise, cannot function without a new stadium - a source of greater revenue. They are not going to get it at JRS. Their best shot, we are told, is a new stadium because their lease with H-Bomb is atrocious. If you cant see the pressure here, than you are just being blind. Stop being defensive and think for a change. If they dont re-sign Lowell, it will be harder to attract interest/support for a new stadium. So if they dont spend the money now - they wont have any later. Like Edcanes said, it makes no baseball sense to keep Lowell. In our situation, we should trade him for some serious prospects (Nick Johnson, for example) and just live with our young pitching. Cabrera can produce Lowell-like for a fraction of the cost. So again, what is your point? :banghead
November 13, 200322 yr :lol Calm down. I don't know why you're getting upset, and I don't think you understood my post anyway. Disagree with me if you want, but you might try acting older than a 12-year old. Wow this is all stunning news to me. Really? The marlins need a new stadium for revenue? I had no idea!! You seem to think I don't feel they need a new stadium. I have agreed countless times that they need a new stadium. Where have I said otherwise? My point is who do you people think the pressure is on to get this stadium built? The front office will do everything they can, whether Lowell is involved or not. The statement just irritated me from the source in the article, that "if you want Lowell, you have to give us a stadium'. Who is "you"? Meanwhile, take a pill and don't respond to my posts like a prick please. You dont know what the hell you are saying, much less be clear about where you stand on this issue. ...and my stance on this issue is that it's fine if it keeps Lowell around, but I would rather they just signed him and get rid of someone else. You may now return to your usual genius posts, such as ARod to the Marlins.
November 14, 200322 yr Author Ahh...Ecanes. The Yang to my Ying. I too agree that a new stadium is needed. That's not the issue. My core issue is making Lowell's contract relevant to the aquisition of a new stadium. First off, if the team's intent is to sign Lowell, why would they alienate him with this? Don't you think Lowell (and his agent) are saying to themselves "What the hell does a new stadium have to do with the fact I deserve (and can get) a long-term deal?" Lowell doesn't need, nor does he deserve this treatment. He toed the company line and played his tail off, and now that he's in a position to reap the benefits of the hard work Beinfest tells him a long-term deal is dependant not upon him, or the FO, but on the chance that the team gets a stadium?? Someone give me one reason why Lowell just doesn't decline and walk away next year with his arbitration-fat, long-term contract somewhere else? As for EdCanes' assertion that the public controls the teams' personel decisions.... If this is true then why are they doing it to Lowell? He's not even the most popular player. Due to injury he missed almost all of the 6 weeks when the team's local exposure was maximized. Think he's more popular than Pudge, or Cabrera? Ummm... Nope. Anyway, as much as you'd like to assert that this move is all about satiating the public's incessant demand for Lowell to remain in Teal, the opposite is in fact true. The FO doesn't want to take the blame when Lowell leaves town, and this way it's not the FO's fault. It's either going to be Lowell's for being greedy, or the fault of the public for not getting behind a stadium. The very same public they are trying to attract. What's Garbage that the owner is putting in half and more with overruns to built a stadium? All its asking for is help to make it happen. Sorry, but not feeling alot of sympathy for Loria. He hasn't disclosed any details on where he's going to get that "half and more" he's putting in, and that doesn't include the overruns that will surely come with it. Meanwhile a city with one of the worst school systems in a state with one of the worst school systems is being held responsible to help pay for a new stadium. Oh, and by the way, the stadium is for a team that has only drawn fans during about 30 percent of it's exisitance, and has remained in the red for at least 7 of the 10 years it's been around. Sure, they need a new stadium. But the public shouldn't pay for it. If Loria thinks it's such a great investment then why aren't he and MLB tripping over themselves to pay for it all?
November 14, 200322 yr Someone give me one reason why Lowell just doesn't decline and walk away next year with his arbitration-fat, long-term contract somewhere else? Simple. He wants to play here and have say it numerous times on every interview he has given recently. The FO wants to bring most of the team back, as much as their $$ permits. Do you think we can offer Pudge, Castillo and Lowell long term contracts without a Stadium deal? The priority at this time is Castillo and Pudge, we have a replacement for Lowell and he is not an FA yet. That's reality. What is this crap about Miami paying for the Stadium?
November 14, 200322 yr In my opinion this wasn't a good PR move the Marlins front office but is a smart move in their part.After all they are businessmen first.
November 14, 200322 yr The Marlins are strapped for cash. The know that the only source of income that they are going to have is if that new Stadium finally gets built AND they know that South Florida wants to see the Marlins retain as many of these players as possible. While it doesn't seem like a smart move now, it actually make sense IMO. You want to plan for the future of the team and Mike Lowell is one of those essential pieces. For the long term stability of the team, you are going to need the money in order to sign these players and that is only going to come from the funds that stadium generates.....especially if they have a winning product on the field and fans are going out to the ballpark to see them. If all of that comes together, then the next time these guys come through for contract negotiations, they can offer them the kind of money that other teams are willing to offer them and perhaps entice them to stay with a team that have been with for so long. Of course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. :mischief2
November 14, 200322 yr Again Brain Fillet you failed to read "LOWELL IS A LUXURY" with a team with no stadium or one on the way, at this moment you keep those guys that can't be replace on your roster. As far as the stadium, can someone please post the stadium agreement the city of Miami and Loria have, so the Brain here can read it. Its pretty obvious he just like to read what he wants to read or he's been living under a rock since June and probable doesn't even know we won the series.AND YES LORIA WILL PAY ANY OVERRUN WHICH IS HALF AND MORE OF WHAT THE STADIUM IS GOING TO COST! As for the schools and the schools system I don't want to get into a big debate over this topic but I'll just ask you this Brain Fillet, Where is all that money the state was going to supply the city from lotto to our schools? wait I know its in the pockets of those people that run our school system. yep money well spent :thumbup As for the attendance again you must have been sleeping under a rock or just want to read what you want to read but did they average 60,000 plus for the playoff? right? well if they can even get half of that in a new stadium let alone next season it would be a big boost to attendance right?? Again it starts with a good product a winning product Brain Fillet please DON'T enlighten us with your non-knowledge of things in this town let alone baseball and the Marlins
November 14, 200322 yr ::whispers to Edcanes:: He's still pissed about the whole Detroit Tigers and Comerica Park thing :whistle
November 14, 200322 yr :lol Calm down. I don't know why you're getting upset, and I don't think you understood my post anyway. Disagree with me if you want, but you might try acting older than a 12-year old. Wow this is all stunning news to me. Really? The marlins need a new stadium for revenue? I had no idea!! You seem to think I don't feel they need a new stadium. I have agreed countless times that they need a new stadium. Where have I said otherwise? My point is who do you people think the pressure is on to get this stadium built? The front office will do everything they can, whether Lowell is involved or not. The statement just irritated me from the source in the article, that "if you want Lowell, you have to give us a stadium'. Who is "you"? Meanwhile, take a pill and don't respond to my posts like a prick please. You dont know what the hell you are saying, much less be clear about where you stand on this issue. ...and my stance on this issue is that it's fine if it keeps Lowell around, but I would rather they just signed him and get rid of someone else. You may now return to your usual genius posts, such as ARod to the Marlins. Dont try and act hard in your posts and when you get slapped come away like it was all a joke. You know why I misunderstood you? Because you didnt explain yourself at all - your post was poorly written and it seem to attack the article and me as well. So yes, as you put it, I will act like a 12 year old - just as long as you continue to ride the 'short bus' with your comments. So, let me get this straight. You say that the Marlins need a new stadium. You say they are putting up the money they need too and are trying to re-sign the players they need to. But you are questioning who is feeling the pressure? I dont understand STILL what you are trying to say. There seems to be a complaint there in you, or a sense of hurt. I dont know. It seems to me that you didnt like the idea of Lowell's contract being tied to a stadium deal. Understandable, but wrong. The Marlins wont have enough money to support his contract AND the rest of the team if they dont get a new source of revenue. And yes, if the Marlins have to chip in for a new stadium, they will have less money - but they wont have less money. In other words, with the new revenue they would be generating, along with revenue sharing, they would have to spend some of that money on financing the new stadium - but they still would have much more money than if they were still trapped at JRS under Huizenga's foot. So you are correct, but again, only to a point. And I still have no idea what your complaint is about here.
November 14, 200322 yr why does everyone say Lowell is a luxury? sorry, he isnt.... he is arguably THE BEST 3RD BASEMAN IN BASEBALL and all you guys say that we have Cabrera to take over..... thats all fine and dandy but then you are gonna put some garbage man in LF instead Lowell is NOT a luxury.... imo that is pretty dumb
November 14, 200322 yr Here's a question I have about this offer, assuming it even exists as a formal offer - since the stadium isn't going to be built until 2007 at the earliest, why does that effect Lowell's contract? The 4th and final year of this proposed contract is 2007 - they won't have extra revenue for the first 3 years of Lowell's contract anyways. Also, the Marlins are going to need to borrow at least $137 million to build the stadium. It's going to be paid off with money from future revenues but the people building the stadium will want to be paid now. That means debt. MLB limits the amount of debt a team can have. Some teams are supposedly reducing payroll so they can pay down their debt. How does that factor into future player contracts? (Aside to Admin - if you've read this far, you may need to buy some extra storage. I think the long-winded Lecture Wars have begun. I can be guilty of long posts but you ain't seen nothing yet.)
November 14, 200322 yr Gator, Loria would probably be more willing to lose more money if he knows for certain that he's getting an stadium. So that's probably the reasonning behind that contract. They are basically saying: we would put up with losing 20 millions a year if we know the stadium is coming, because we'll benefit on the long run. but if there's no stadium coming there's no reason to lose money on this thing, they should actually begin thinking about downsizing payroll and finding a new city to move to.
November 14, 200322 yr let's try it again. jonnylons, here was my question to you. How does this put more pressure on getting a stadium jonnylons? The only ones under pressure are the Marlins. The city has already put up money, and the state could care less really. So who is feeling the pressure? Now if you think this question is "acting hard" then you must be awfully touchy. is there anything at all personal or rude in there? Nope. But you decided to jump down my throat for some odd reason. And as far as "slapping me", dream on kid. I'll try and explain it again. Maybe the 3rd time's a charm. #1, I asked you who you think pressure is on to get a stadium deal done. There is a quote from some Joe Schmoe who says this contract gives the impression "If you want Lowell you have to give us a stadium." Well who is this supposed to be directed to? The city? The fans? The fans aren't buying the stadium last time I checked. The statement has a blackmail-ish tone to it. I don't think it was anyone from the front office who said it, so it's not a big deal. Just rubbed me the wrong way. #2. You make the assertion that Lowell's deal being tied to the stadium puts even more pressure on getting a stadium deal done. I find it ridiculous that they'd now try "harder" because Lowell could leave. Whether his contract is tied to it has no bearing on how hard the FO is going to try to get a stadium done. I'm farily sure that Loria & Co., will do everything possible. This really isn't complicated. Drop it before we waste anymore time on this.
November 14, 200322 yr Gator, Loria would probably be more willing to lose more money if he knows for certain that he's getting an stadium. So that's probably the reasonning behind that contract. They are basically saying: we would put up with losing 20 millions a year if we know the stadium is coming, because we'll benefit on the long run. but if there's no stadium coming there's no reason to lose money on this thing, they should actually begin thinking about downsizing payroll and finding a new city to move to. very well put, orisha. you picked the perfect choice of words to explain it.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.