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If there is no God, what defines moral or ethical?


TheU

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I think this topic is stupid; am I the only one?

 

At the end of the day, it's an argument over opinion with no proof, one way or the other. I'm Catholic, but I would never even attempt to tell an Atheist to believe in God. Perhaps it has to do with being in college, at the moment, and having an open mind as I've taken world religion and multiple sociology classes, but I can understand the opposing viewpoint. Since I have no proof as to why people should believe in God (just faith), I'm not going to be ignorant.

 

As to what defines moral or ethical...the laws that the power elite create; that's what the average person follows, thus breaking those norms would be considered unethical by society. I'm not sure if religion necessarily has to play a part.

 

 

It's not stupid, it will not have a definite answer. Many debates sometimes have no proof at all, it's just sharing ones opinion and comparing with others.

And a topic that's about god, moral and ethics will never have proof and it has been a debate on the table for over centuries.

 

off topic

btw, you said you took some sociology classes at college, i've taken 1 sociology course in the US and one here, in Argentina. My question is, just out of curiosity, have you ever read Marx or Marxism? Because the course i took in the US did not have not even a word on Marxism, and it's quite important on sociology. In Argentina, nearly half the course is about him and his ideology (and Argentina isn't a Marxist country, just a Peronist one).

 

That same issue also happened when I took psychology classes in both countries, in the US I've never read anything about Freud, and in Argentina, nearly 90% of psychology is Freudian.

 

That's honestly not good... haha. In my psychology class, we spent a decent amount of time on Freud. But most of his principles aren't believed in the current age. I'm pretty sure only his defense mechanisms are. All the id, ego, superego, oedipus complex, penis envy, ect are interesting yet frowned upon lol.

Well, here it's complety different. Psychoanalysis it's nearly the only way psychology is done.

And, for example, cognitive psychology it's not used at all. The other day I read in a newspaper that Argentina has 145 psychologist per 100.000 inhabitants, while Buenos Aires has 789 p/100.000. And nearly 35% of Argentinians went at least once. The US has 31 p/ 100.000.

Different points of views. Popper, for example didn't like psychoanalysis, he consider it a pseudoscience because it does not fulfill the scientific method and one can't apply the concept of falsifiability to it.

 

But that's something that changes country to country. In mass communication, you will not read anything about Frankfurt School in the US, but all throughout Europe and Latin America yes.

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I took an ethics course in college, with a very good professor I might add, and religion is not even considered a major ethical theory. Any way you look at it you end up with either the emptiness problem or the arbitrariness problem.

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The Torah gives a religious basis for ethics. Every human being was created in the image of God, and is worthy of our respect. It is a maxim as important today as it was in ancient times.[/size][/color][/size][/font]

 

While I appreciate the point, and his eloquence in making it, this can be said without religion backing it up. We can all be born equal without God having made us so. It is society and culture which imprint upon us our relative inequities.

 

In fact, many religions (Calvinism, with it's tenents of predestination, for one, and any branch of Christianity which says we are all born sinners) preach the exact opposite of this point.

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The Torah gives a religious basis for ethics. Every human being was created in the image of God, and is worthy of our respect. It is a maxim as important today as it was in ancient times.[/size][/color][/size][/font]

 

While I appreciate the point, and his eloquence in making it, this can be said without religion backing it up. We can all be born equal without God having made us so. It is society and culture which imprint upon us our relative inequities.

 

In fact, many religions (Calvinism, with it's tenents of predestination, for one, and any branch of Christianity which says we are all born sinners) preach the exact opposite of this point.

 

I'm pretty sure the implication behind those sentences is "If you accept Judaism/the Torah, then......"

He's not usually one to flout Judaism as clearly superiority to other religions.

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I think this topic is stupid; am I the only one?

 

At the end of the day, it's an argument over opinion with no proof, one way or the other. I'm Catholic, but I would never even attempt to tell an Atheist to believe in God. Perhaps it has to do with being in college, at the moment, and having an open mind as I've taken world religion and multiple sociology classes, but I can understand the opposing viewpoint. Since I have no proof as to why people should believe in God (just faith), I'm not going to be ignorant.

 

As to what defines moral or ethical...the laws that the power elite create; that's what the average person follows, thus breaking those norms would be considered unethical by society. I'm not sure if religion necessarily has to play a part.

 

 

It's not stupid, it will not have a definite answer. Many debates sometimes have no proof at all, it's just sharing ones opinion and comparing with others.

And a topic that's about god, moral and ethics will never have proof and it has been a debate on the table for over centuries.

 

off topic

btw, you said you took some sociology classes at college, i've taken 1 sociology course in the US and one here, in Argentina. My question is, just out of curiosity, have you ever read Marx or Marxism? Because the course i took in the US did not have not even a word on Marxism, and it's quite important on sociology. In Argentina, nearly half the course is about him and his ideology (and Argentina isn't a Marxist country, just a Peronist one).

 

That same issue also happened when I took psychology classes in both countries, in the US I've never read anything about Freud, and in Argentina, nearly 90% of psychology is Freudian.

 

That's honestly not good... haha. In my psychology class, we spent a decent amount of time on Freud. But most of his principles aren't believed in the current age. I'm pretty sure only his defense mechanisms are. All the id, ego, superego, oedipus complex, penis envy, ect are interesting yet frowned upon lol.

Well, here it's complety different. Psychoanalysis it's nearly the only way psychology is done.

And, for example, cognitive psychology it's not used at all. The other day I read in a newspaper that Argentina has 145 psychologist per 100.000 inhabitants, while Buenos Aires has 789 p/100.000. And nearly 35% of Argentinians went at least once. The US has 31 p/ 100.000.

Different points of views. Popper, for example didn't like psychoanalysis, he consider it a pseudoscience because it does not fulfill the scientific method and one can't apply the concept of falsifiability to it.

 

But that's something that changes country to country. In mass communication, you will not read anything about Frankfurt School in the US, but all throughout Europe and Latin America yes.

 

Wow, that's really interesting. I remember Freudian psychology dominated America in the early parts of the 20th century before we turned to others.

 

Are you a psychologist?

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I think this topic is stupid; am I the only one?

 

At the end of the day, it's an argument over opinion with no proof, one way or the other. I'm Catholic, but I would never even attempt to tell an Atheist to believe in God. Perhaps it has to do with being in college, at the moment, and having an open mind as I've taken world religion and multiple sociology classes, but I can understand the opposing viewpoint. Since I have no proof as to why people should believe in God (just faith), I'm not going to be ignorant.

 

As to what defines moral or ethical...the laws that the power elite create; that's what the average person follows, thus breaking those norms would be considered unethical by society. I'm not sure if religion necessarily has to play a part.

 

 

It's not stupid, it will not have a definite answer. Many debates sometimes have no proof at all, it's just sharing ones opinion and comparing with others.

And a topic that's about god, moral and ethics will never have proof and it has been a debate on the table for over centuries.

 

off topic

btw, you said you took some sociology classes at college, i've taken 1 sociology course in the US and one here, in Argentina. My question is, just out of curiosity, have you ever read Marx or Marxism? Because the course i took in the US did not have not even a word on Marxism, and it's quite important on sociology. In Argentina, nearly half the course is about him and his ideology (and Argentina isn't a Marxist country, just a Peronist one).

 

That same issue also happened when I took psychology classes in both countries, in the US I've never read anything about Freud, and in Argentina, nearly 90% of psychology is Freudian.

 

 

Yeah, I've learned more about that this semester, actually.

 

The term Marxism isn't really directly mentioned in lectures, etc., but we've definitely learned the basics of it. Such things as the bourgeoisie, proletariat, etc. have been taught.

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The Torah gives a religious basis for ethics. Every human being was created in the image of God, and is worthy of our respect. It is a maxim as important today as it was in ancient times.[/size][/color][/size][/font]

 

While I appreciate the point, and his eloquence in making it, this can be said without religion backing it up. We can all be born equal without God having made us so. It is society and culture which imprint upon us our relative inequities.

 

In fact, many religions (Calvinism, with it's tenents of predestination, for one, and any branch of Christianity which says we are all born sinners) preach the exact opposite of this point.

 

I'm pretty sure the implication behind those sentences is "If you accept Judaism/the Torah, then......"

He's not usually one to flout Judaism as clearly superiority to other religions.

 

I understand the implication, I just think what he said can be stated without the crutch of religion. We are all born equal, only culture and circumstances change that throughout life. We do not need Judaism or any other religion to teach us that every human being is worthy of our respect.

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I think this topic is stupid; am I the only one?

 

At the end of the day, it's an argument over opinion with no proof, one way or the other. I'm Catholic, but I would never even attempt to tell an Atheist to believe in God. Perhaps it has to do with being in college, at the moment, and having an open mind as I've taken world religion and multiple sociology classes, but I can understand the opposing viewpoint. Since I have no proof as to why people should believe in God (just faith), I'm not going to be ignorant.

 

As to what defines moral or ethical...the laws that the power elite create; that's what the average person follows, thus breaking those norms would be considered unethical by society. I'm not sure if religion necessarily has to play a part.

 

 

It's not stupid, it will not have a definite answer. Many debates sometimes have no proof at all, it's just sharing ones opinion and comparing with others.

And a topic that's about god, moral and ethics will never have proof and it has been a debate on the table for over centuries.

 

off topic

btw, you said you took some sociology classes at college, i've taken 1 sociology course in the US and one here, in Argentina. My question is, just out of curiosity, have you ever read Marx or Marxism? Because the course i took in the US did not have not even a word on Marxism, and it's quite important on sociology. In Argentina, nearly half the course is about him and his ideology (and Argentina isn't a Marxist country, just a Peronist one).

 

That same issue also happened when I took psychology classes in both countries, in the US I've never read anything about Freud, and in Argentina, nearly 90% of psychology is Freudian.

 

That's honestly not good... haha. In my psychology class, we spent a decent amount of time on Freud. But most of his principles aren't believed in the current age. I'm pretty sure only his defense mechanisms are. All the id, ego, superego, oedipus complex, penis envy, ect are interesting yet frowned upon lol.

Well, here it's complety different. Psychoanalysis it's nearly the only way psychology is done.

And, for example, cognitive psychology it's not used at all. The other day I read in a newspaper that Argentina has 145 psychologist per 100.000 inhabitants, while Buenos Aires has 789 p/100.000. And nearly 35% of Argentinians went at least once. The US has 31 p/ 100.000.

Different points of views. Popper, for example didn't like psychoanalysis, he consider it a pseudoscience because it does not fulfill the scientific method and one can't apply the concept of falsifiability to it.

 

But that's something that changes country to country. In mass communication, you will not read anything about Frankfurt School in the US, but all throughout Europe and Latin America yes.

 

Wow, that's really interesting. I remember Freudian psychology dominated America in the early parts of the 20th century before we turned to others.

 

Are you a psychologist?

 

Oh, no. I ve got a degree on journalism in the US and then here in Argentina I got another degree in Communication Studies. Though, i had to take courses on psychology, sociology, economy, public opinion, semiotics, semiology and so on. And some courses I had to take them in both countries because there were some differences between the syllabus.

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I was using some hyperbole over there. Critical theory tends to be minimized. It's looks like Marxism has a veto on some US Institutions -another hyperbole :p - .

I went to FIU. Although before I decided where I wanted to study, i took a look on the programs on other universities in South Florida. That's where i saw what I was saying before.

 

btw,I love Barthes and Adorno. :smlove

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