Kind of sounds like that movie The Beach/

 

What you're saying is really true. I mean I've found things to do in those smaller cities I was referring to do as boring, you can have fun anywhere. But I think Miami has to offer it's demographic far more than most cities in the country. What other city have a draw like South Beach on a Saturday night, or just the beach in general on a Sunday afternoon. Few have similar but not many. Baseball has more to compete with than other cities.

 

 

The Beach. Is that the movie where they live on an island off Thailand? If so, loved that movie. But I just used Thailand as an example because I really liked it there. Every country I went to had basically the same results. Folks looking for "Americanized" eating establishments when friends and I were looking for mom and pop type diners. Or making friends and eating at their place. Some things on the menu may have turned some peoples' stomachs, but the locals sure seemed healthy enough so what the heck..... Although sampling the local cuisine may be a bad example of what I am trying to get accross.

 

Anyway, I still disagree. Every place has "draws". Different than South Florida, but definetly very interesting and entertaining to their demographic or they wouldn't have a demographic. It's really that simple. South Florida dosen't have more to do, just different things to do. We are a tourist spot because people like to have a taste of something different from time to time. Not because they like it more, but just because it's different.

What is there to do in Cleveland besides the HOF? Yes, its in Canton, but I'm sure Canton isn't too far away from Cleveland.

Poor attendance is most likey a combination of factors instead of just weather or location. Current location, heat, perception of rainouts/delays, ballpark experience, firesale history, and miamis event mentality all play a role. I do think the biggest reason is the event mentality. Miami draws very well for anything limited and exclusive which is part of the reasoning for the size of the new ballpark. The marlins have adressed every issue as best they could. They eliminated any weather excuse. They are in the process of letting fans know they are keeping great players. Location is the best they could get. The experience of going to a game should be 1000000x better. After the new park feel wears off I do think the normal attendance will be higher than it is now. I think the marlins will rank close to 20 in attendance after the new stadium draw wears off. Not amazing but much better than now.

 

 

The only valuable excuse for attendance is that this is a transient city. That's it. Every home game the crowd has a large/decent amount of the other team's fans, even with the crappiest visiting teams. If all those people were Miami natives, there would be no attendance problem rain, shine, blizzard, etc.

 

There is always an aggregate of factors that go to attendance, being a transient city can't be the only reason. I have never been to Cleveland or Pittsburgh, but our attendance is actually better than theirs (by a small margin) and i would not consider them transient.

 

Our attendance should be larger than theirs by a large margin. In a city with 4 million people that's pretty much the only viable excuse. Where else do you see so many Reds, Pirates, or Padres fans other than in their home stadiums these days? If most of those people were from around here, chances are they'd be rooting for the home team. And I know people also don't go sometimes because of the weather, but that wouldn't be much of a problem with a larger fanbase.

 

I agree with you about the transient nature of Miami, and the fact that most people who live here were not born here. But look at the Dolphins, they rank in about the middle for attendance, and if transient nature was the only factor, they would be at the bottom too. Take a look at the Minnesota Twins for example, they are close to the top for attendence, but the Vikings are close to the bottom. There has to be other factors at play. I am just looking at ESPN resources for all this stuff.

I heard somewhere that geography is the reason for low attendance. Most arenas and stadiums are built in population centers. Because Florida is a peninsula and a good portion of it is the Everglades, that's not possible here. That makes sense to me. 60% of the fan base is to the North 30% to the South, and 5% each East and West. That's just a rough estimate. People in the Ft Myers/Naples area are Rays fans right?

]What is there to do in Cleveland besides the HOF? Yes, its in Canton, but I'm sure Canton isn't too far away from Cleveland.

 

 

Never really been there, just passed through a couple times. But it is on one of the Great Lakes, and if you have ever seen one of them you would know they make Lake Okeechobee look like a pond. So definetly all types of water sports, including fishing. Rock and Roll HOF, which I would guess to mean also a pretty good night life. I would also imagine lots of historical sites. Hunting. I would guess hiking trails out the gazoo.

 

That's just off the top of my head for the summer months. You can't think once the snow starts flying they board themselves in. Do you? Skiing, snowboarding, ice skating, ice fishing, snowmobiling, skiing behind snowmobiles,............Endless list.

 

I'm sure they have tons of activities and night life. Google Cleveland and find out.

I heard somewhere that geography is the reason for low attendance. Most arenas and stadiums are built in population centers. Because Florida is a peninsula and a good portion of it is the Everglades, that's not possible here. That makes sense to me. 60% of the fan base is to the North 30% to the South, and 5% each East and West. That's just a rough estimate. People in the Ft Myers/Naples area are Rays fans right?

 

 

You saying South Florida isn't heavily populated? Compare the population in a 50-75 mile radius from Joe Robbie to the same thing around all other stadiums/ball parks.

I heard somewhere that geography is the reason for low attendance. Most arenas and stadiums are built in population centers. Because Florida is a peninsula and a good portion of it is the Everglades, that's not possible here. That makes sense to me. 60% of the fan base is to the North 30% to the South, and 5% each East and West. That's just a rough estimate. People in the Ft Myers/Naples area are Rays fans right?

 

 

You saying South Florida isn't heavily populated? Compare the population in a 50-75 mile radius from Joe Robbie to the same thing around all other stadiums/ball parks.

I think he means that it's hard to have a population center because its populated in a strip along the east coast, so it's a little harder to have population concentrated around the ballpark.

I heard somewhere that geography is the reason for low attendance. Most arenas and stadiums are built in population centers. Because Florida is a peninsula and a good portion of it is the Everglades, that's not possible here. That makes sense to me. 60% of the fan base is to the North 30% to the South, and 5% each East and West. That's just a rough estimate. People in the Ft Myers/Naples area are Rays fans right?

You saying South Florida isn't heavily populated? Compare the population in a 50-75 mile radius from Joe Robbie to the same thing around all other stadiums/ball parks. I think he means that it's hard to have a population center because its populated in a strip along the east coast, so it's a little harder to have population concentrated around the ballpark. That's what I mean. Here's a night satellite photo that illustrates my point:

 

 

 

 

Looking at that photo, there seems to be a lot more people in Rays territory than Marlins territory. What's their excuse?

For whoever said the population around SunLife is equal to other parks...

 

Two things wrong with that. First off, no, it's not. South Florida's population is just as great, yes. But the density around the stadium? It's out far west in between Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. It's not densely populated around the stadium at all. It's suburban, at most.

 

And the next thing. Florida has almost no sense of public transportation. If you don't own a car or have a ride, you're not going to the game. Other parks in metropolitan areas aren't the same. Most have some form of public transportation. I think that might be an advantage to the new park, being that Miami has probably the only legitimate public transportation in all of Florida, even if it is weak at best.

For whoever said the population around SunLife is equal to other parks...

 

Two things wrong with that. First off, no, it's not. South Florida's population is just as great, yes. But the density around the stadium? It's out far west in between Miami and Ft. Lauderdale. It's not densely populated around the stadium at all. It's suburban, at most.

 

And the next thing. Florida has almost no sense of public transportation. If you don't own a car or have a ride, you're not going to the game. Other parks in metropolitan areas aren't the same. Most have some form of public transportation. I think that might be an advantage to the new park, being that Miami has probably the only legitimate public transportation in all of Florida, even if it is weak at best.

 

 

I definitely agree about public transportation. I think it is huge when it comes to stadium attendance, and the lack of adequate public transportation in Miami-Dade means that the location of the stadium really does not matter since everyone will be driving to it anyway. Also that means few stadium goers will be hanging out around a stadium afterwards. We were talking about D.C. and Baltimore, which both have adequate public transportation to and from their respective stadiums, this increases the number of people able to go see a game and also allow for a revitalization of the surrounding area since people are more inclined to hang about before and after.

 

I think it was the same billionaire who was trying to shutdown the new stadium, who also thwarted an attempt to boost Miami-Dade's public transportation system.

I think another thing to point out is how the Marlins have only been around for a few years, and the fanbase is just growing. People that have lived here since before the 90's grew up rooting for other teams since the Marlins didn't exist. Its hard for them to let go of the team they grew up with and/or the team their parents rooted for. Teams are often handed down through generations and for example a guy who grew up as a die-hard Met fan will most likely raise his son as a Met fan.

 

That generation hasn't been established yet for the Marlins but I think one day it will. Being born in South Fla in 1990 I never knew any other baseball experience other than the Marlins. My dad moved here from Colombia and he was never big into Baseball so when I learned to love baseball I had only one choice: the Marlins. I learned to love the Marlins and baseball. When I grow older and I have kids you can bet your left arm that I will raise my kids as Marlins fans and I hope they raise their kids as Marlins fans, too. Thats how a fanbase is built. It doesn't matter how many people reside in a city or how many of them are baseball fans, because they probably grew up loving another team, and are not gonna root easily for the Marlins. Hopefully there will be many young families at home games in the years to come, because these kids are gonna be the future Marlins fans.

I can safely say I'll be able to attend more games next season because it's closer to where I live, and I won't be driving either. I'll be going to a friend's house and walking to the Metro, and taking it to a mover that'll take me to the stadium. The people who say this won't change anything can't possibly live in Miami.

I feel like it's hard to see results when you look at thigns from day to day but this year i feel like i see more Fish caps, shirts, fans, hear people talking about the game, see it on in bars more as opposed to having to ask for it, etc. than years before. Itll be nice when they extend the metrorail and there's a stadium stop. Probably won't happen anytime soon but if the Fish and Miami are here forevermore then at some point in the century...

People that have lived here since before the 90's grew up rooting for other teams since the Marlins didn't exist. Its hard for them to let go of the team they grew up with and/or the team their parents rooted for. Teams are often handed down through generations and for example a guy who grew up as a die-hard Met fan will most likely raise his son as a Met fan.

 

I'm one of those people and what you say is often true, but not necessarily. I'm a good example.

 

I grew up in Minnesota as a Twins fan. It was a big deal when they moved there from Washington, DC in '61 when I was 9. Harmon Killebrew, Bob Allison, Camilo Pascual, Jim Kaat, Zoilo Versailles. Later, Tony Oliva and Rod Carew. Calvin Griffith may have been a cheapskate owner but he sure could find and sign HOF talent. I went to tons of games (in a crappy stadium, but to a kid it was amazing) in the '60s.

 

I moved to Florida in 1980 and watched the Twins' WS wins in '87 and '91, but really knew none of the players.

 

Other than that, I basically ignored baseball until '97, being busy doing other things.

 

I did watch the Marlins' post-season wins and the following disassembly. And the ongoing (lack-of) stadium controversy. A few years later I discovered that virtually every Marlins game was televised (the Twins televised no home games and maybe 20 road games a year back in the '60s. In black-and-white, not color and certainly not in high-def) and watched the entire '03 season. How could you not? That's baseball nirvana.

 

I watched the first game Jack McKeon managed. That Willis pitched. That Cabrera played. They've been my team ever since, I couldn't possibly give a crap less what the Twins do.

 

Not all previously-otherwise-disposed fans are beyond conversion.