January 13, 200422 yr Author here's another thing you can use: extra bases+ walks- caught stealing/ at bats + walks- singles Juane Pierre: 71/ 555 Andruw Jones: 116/ 549 clearly, Jones is better and if you get caught stealing 20 times, it doesn't matter how many you stole your hurting the team a lot more than helping offensively, Jones is better.? Defensively, Jones is better. Has Jones had over 200 hits? Has Jones thrown alignments of fields off completely? Has Jones ever been the toughest person to strike out in the majors? Has Jones ever lead the league in stolen bases? How about leading the majors in stealing while being the toughest to strike out in the same season? Does Jones get the hitters that are batting better pitches because he is on base? He had 199 hits in 2000. Does that count? Over the past 7 years, Jones has averaged 32 HR's and 95 RBIs, and of course, won all the CF Gold Gloves for that period. He's never led the league in stolen bases of course, but he was a speed threat when he was younger. Just to note, Dave Roberts once led the league in stolen bases. Dave Roberts. Your other claims are pretty weak. I'll have to do more research in baseball-reference to dispute them, but Pierre's 2002 season? In a word: s***ty. you are correct. Not to mention Roger Cedeno almost won the stolen base title a couple years ago.
January 13, 200422 yr Author Well, I don't believe Juan Pierre has ever been a power hitter (which is why Coor's hurt him) hitting with Chipper Jones, Gary Sheffield, and Javy Lopez (amongst others). That is some nice lineup protection if you ask me. Coors' hurt him? Coors has one of the largest dimmensions in baseball, it helps contact hitters more than anyone. And what about hitting with Helton and Walker?
January 13, 200422 yr Bottom Line: Can Andruw Jones be the biggest threat in a lineup? Maybe, but we don't know for sure because he's had protection all his career. Can Juan Pierre be the biggest threat in a lineup? If you think HRs and RBIs are the most important thing in life, then so be it. But if you know anything about baseball, you'd know the #1 threat in the Marlins lineup last year happened to hit #1. And this is with Mike Lowell, Pudge Rodriguez, Miguel Cabrera, Derek Lee, Luis Castillo, and Jeff Conine. Difference is Juan Pierre made alot of what they did possible, while Andruw Jones would just fall in to that group. Andruw Jones is a great player, no doubt. It is hard to find a defensive outfielder as good with a good bat. But The Braves offense could survive without Jones. Could the Marlins offense honestly survive without Pierre? Not really.
January 13, 200422 yr And what about hitting with Helton and Walker? I never knew he batted between them.
January 13, 200422 yr If you guys think Jones is better than Pierre, you need to stop reading stats and go watch a Marlins World Series game on tape. Or a Braves one???
January 13, 200422 yr Author and by watching them, you could see that Andruw Jones is even better. Jones defensively is one of the all time greats. He is much better offensively. ANd he doesn't get thrown out on the bases nearly as much.
January 13, 200422 yr Just because Pierre is more integral to the Marlins than Jones is to the Braves doesn't mean that Pierre is a better player than Jones is. On my mythical fantasy team, I would still take Jones. Look, you guys are Marlins fans. If I was a Marlins fan, I would love Pierre because he's on my side. But saying that you just have to look at a Series tape won't do it, because you're looking at it through the eyes of a Marlins fan. Everything seems to fall into place and Pierre looks to be a gift from God.
January 13, 200422 yr I think the fact that the line is split here is more along the lines of (for me anyways) my preference for traditional-style baseball rather than the mash-um style the Braves bring to the table. Pierre tracks down everything hit to centerfield, is one of the biggest offensive threats in the league despite his lack of homerun power, and is one of the better baserunners (not just because of a bazillion stolen bases, he is an intelligent baserunner). He is a great contact guy. My kind of hitter. I have no problem with a Jones type of player, I just prefer them in another position. Pierre would be central to my team's offense, therefore for me he is the better center fielder. In modern times it is understandable why Jones is more wanted. But in pure baseball sense Pierre would be the better center fielder.
January 13, 200422 yr I think the fact that the line is split here is more along the lines of (for me anyways) my preference for traditional-style baseball rather than the mash-um style the Braves bring to the table. Pierre tracks down everything hit to centerfield, is one of the biggest offensive threats in the league despite his lack of homerun power, and is one of the better baserunners (not just because of a bazillion stolen bases, he is an intelligent baserunner). He is a great contact guy. My kind of hitter. I have no problem with a Jones type of player, I just prefer them in another position. Pierre would be central to my team's offense, therefore for me he is the better center fielder. In modern times it is understandable why Jones is more wanted. But in pure baseball sense Pierre would be the better center fielder. That sums it up. Let's agree to disagree.
January 13, 200422 yr Let me set you all straight here: C. Perez-Estrada/ Lieberthal/ Castro Phillies, Marlins, Braves In lamest terms, Mike tore it up for Philly last year. Castro will be a beast, power wise at least, with the bat. Braves don't even have one average catcher. 1B. Franco/ Thome/ Choi Phillies, Marlins, Braves Thome's numbers speak for themselves. Choi is the best 1B prospect in baseball. Julio is 45-years-old. 2B. Giles/ Polanco/ Castillo Marlins, Braves, Phillies I don't see Marcus ever touching his 2003 stats again. Castillo will regain some speed, and will continue his top of the order dominance. Polanco is extreamely solid, although they may move him back to third to put Utley at second and move Bell out of the starting line-up. 3B. DeRosa/ Bell/ Lowell Marlins, Braves, Phillies Mike Lowell is the best offensive third baseman today, plain and simple. Bell struggled to hit .200 last year. DeRosa will be average at best full-time. SS. Furcal/ Rollins/ Gonzalez Braves, Phillies, Marlins Furcal is the best in the division (outside of Orlando Cabrera and Jose Reyes IMO :lol ). If Rollins continues to struggle and Gonzalez continues to improve, I wouldn't be suprised to see those two switch. LF. Jones/ Burrell/ Conine Braves, Marlins, Phillies Chipper may be a HOFer, he gets the nod. With Jeff, you can pencil in a solid season. Burrell is a huge question mark. He'll either be awesome or horrible. FOr now, we're going on horrible. CF. Jones/ Byrd/ Pierre Braves, Marlins, Byrd Look, for those saying Pierre > Jones, get a clue. Andruw is the best CF in the game, in the field or at the plate. And those of you saying Byrd > Pierre, get your head out of your ass. Juan Pierre was a top 10 MVP candidate last season, what the hell was Byrd? He didn't even win the ROY. RF. Drew/ Abreu/ Cabrera Phillies, Marlins, Braves For now, Bobby Abreu is where it's at in the division. By July, that could change. All three are awesome talents, but Bobby is proven. Miguel will be healthy enough to be more consistant than Drew, and is flat out more talented anyway. JD could be just as good or better than both if healthy. SP. Ortiz/ Millwood/ Beckett Marlins, Braves, Phillies Ortiz won 20 games behind his offense. Look for more like 15 this year. Millwood can be penciled in for 15-18. Beckett had a much better ERA than both, and obviously has better stuff, which is why he heads the list. SP. Hampton/ Wolf/ Burnett Braves, Phillies, Marlins I suspect Hampton to have a very good year in 2004. Just my gut. Wolf is an All-Star until further notice. If Burnett can be 3/4 as good as he was in 2002, he will head this list, but until he can show that ability, he is at the bottom. SP. Byrd/ Padilla/ Penny Marlins, Phillies, Braves Penny is virtually as sick as Beckett, and he just won 14 games, so he obviously leads here. Padilla keeps getting better and better, and I don't see why that won't continue, be his stuff does not match Brad's. Byrd had a great 2002. Not 2003. Until he proves otherwise, he is at the bottom just like AJ. SP. Smith/ Milton/ Willis Marlins, Phillies, Braves Dontrelle had the best 2003. Period. If this is the 20-game winner Milton, he leads this. But until he can do that again, D-Train stays over him. Smith who? :lol SP. Ramirez/ Myers/ Pavano Marlins, Phillies, Braves Most in and outside of the Marlins organization are expecting a huge breakout year from Pavz. If he gets some run support for once, I wouldn't even rule out *gasps* 20 wins due to his unmatched consistancy. Haratio had a great year-- for a rookie. Ditto for Myers, but he looks more promising than Ramirez, so he gets second. RP: Phillies, Braves, Marlins Phillies have two 35+ save closers, that alone gets them this. Braves still have the best closer in the game IMO with John. Marlins could pass Atlanta with more consistancy. Manager: Marlins, Braves, Phillies J-Mack is the best in the game after last season. No ifs ands or buts about it. Cox is still directly on his ass, though.
January 13, 200422 yr at THIS point..... Franco is better than Choi come week 3 of the season, Choi will pass him
January 13, 200422 yr batting average= meaningless OPS is way more important. his OBP is average, his slugging percentage is real low. He's average BA means nothing? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
January 13, 200422 yr SP. Ramirez/ Thomson/ Pavano Marlins, Braves, Phillies . For someone who proclaims his knowledge of Baseball and is telling people to get their heads out of their asses... You would think he would know the right rosters...
January 13, 200422 yr For someone who proclaims his knowledge of Baseball and is telling people to get their heads out of their asses... You would think he would know the right rosters... Then fill me in.
January 13, 200422 yr For someone who proclaims his knowledge of Baseball and is telling people to get their heads out of their asses... You would think he would know the right rosters... Then fill me in. Ever hear of a kid named Brett Myers I'm thinking Giants thinks Telemaco's name is Thomson(tele was their fifth last year) Telemaco will be The LR this year while Madson waits at AAA for a SP spot due to injury
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