January 17, 200422 yr I wouldn't diss the tiger fans, they can only get better. The marlins are going to have a hard time repeating 2003. But the Yankees will not, they will lose again We don't have to live up to a world series victory though! However, I would say the yankees made far more additions to their AL championship team than the Marlins did to their NL championship team.
January 17, 200422 yr How high were the Mets, Phillies and Yankees payroll last season? Big payroll does not equal success, so while the Marlins did spend money in 97 they still earned the title. In 97 the orioles had the highest, and I don't remember them winning the world series.
January 17, 200422 yr I would say the yankees made far more additions to their AL championship team than the Marlins did to their NL championship team. And the Yankees obviously needed to more than we did, too.
January 17, 200422 yr I would say the yankees made far more additions to their AL championship team than the Marlins did to their NL championship team. And the Yankees obviously needed to more than we did, too. Well, that's a matter of honest debate. Your guys were in tip top shape. Jeter hat a ruptured tendon and bruised ribs, giambi had a gigantic knee problem, we had no one hitting with runners in scoring position...we had guys who would usually hit and they didn't. Look at the amount of hits we scored against you. We couldn't hit with RISP so we didn't score anything. That's because of a comination of great marlins pitching and big yankee hitters being very hurt and off at the moment. The Yankees didn't have to make upgrades, I think we had a good team last year. The Yankees could of feilded a great team with a payroll 50 million less than it is now (at least) and realistically too. Instead we overloaded on all stars again. But Jason Giambi is not a .250 hitter...when he's back, that's is a huge force to have back. So the questions, did we have to make more? I don't know, we could not know until we see how last years hitters perform this year. My opinion is that we didn't have to make many or more.
January 17, 200422 yr I would say the yankees made far more additions to their AL championship team than the Marlins did to their NL championship team. And the Yankees obviously needed to more than we did, too. Well, that's a matter of honest debate. Your guys were in tip top shape. Jeter hat a ruptured tendon and bruised ribs, giambi had a gigantic knee problem, we had no one hitting with runners in scoring position...we had guys who would usually hit and they didn't. Look at the amount of hits we scored against you. We couldn't hit with RISP so we didn't score anything. That's because of a comination of great marlins pitching and big yankee hitters being very hurt and off at the moment. we were in "tip top shape"??? our ACE pitcher was out for the season. our best slugger (mike lowell) was trying to hit with a recovering broken hand and couldn't make contact if his life depended on it. our 2nd best slugger (derrek lee) was slumping horribly and couldn't hit for s***. our best contact hitter (luis castillo) couldn't hit or get on base at all. face it. the yankees got owned, fair and square.
January 17, 200422 yr we were in "tip top shape"??? our ACE pitcher was out for the season. our best slugger (mike lowell) was trying to hit with a recovering broken hand and couldn't make contact if his life depended on it. our 2nd best slugger (derrek lee) was slumping horribly and couldn't hit for s***. our best contact hitter (luis castillo) couldn't hit or get on base at all. face it. the yankees got owned, fair and square. The Yankees were owned because we weren't as good of a team ever since mid may. Why were we weak? Our best hitter with risp was matsui, and he was second in the AL with GIDP. What I am saying is that the yanks were off all year. I'm not making any excuses, but judging from career statistics, the yanks are capable of more than last season. The Yankees hit well (we did get hits), but we did not bring them in, while you guys did. That's what made you better, you guys were better, how is there disagreement?
January 17, 200422 yr you guys were better, how is there disagreement? there is no disagreement on that fact. i agree with you 100% :thumbup . i was disagreeing with your suggestion that a full strength marlins team defeated a weakened yankee team. in particular, i was disagreeing with the characterization of the marlins as being in "tip top shape." nothing could be further from the truth.
January 17, 200422 yr as a fan of the Marlins I am diggin this deal as a fan of dawgs everywhere I am diggin this deal and to the Tigers fan who kept talking about the 1997 team being money players.... please explain if you are saying we got all those players the year of the 97 season you are sorely mistaken.... so when you get the chance, EXPLAIN yourself
January 17, 200422 yr you guys were better, how is there disagreement? there is no disagreement on that fact. i agree with you 100% :thumbup . i was disagreeing with your suggestion that a full strength marlins team defeated a weakened yankee team. in particular, i was disagreeing with the characterization of the marlins as being in "tip top shape." nothing could be further from the truth. I admit I'm wrong. I was thinking more fo how cabrera, pudge, pavano, penny, and beckett really stepped up when it counted in the world series. Pavano, Penny, Beckett pitched like Gods in the world series. When you have 3 starting pitchers pitching better than PEdro, losing is very hard to do!
January 17, 200422 yr as a fan of the Marlins I am diggin this deal as a fan of dawgs everywhere I am diggin this deal and to the Tigers fan who kept talking about the 1997 team being money players.... please explain if you are saying we got all those players the year of the 97 season you are sorely mistaken.... so when you get the chance, EXPLAIN yourself I never said that you brought them all in for the 97 season, I am saying you all brought in high profile free agents to win the world series (which it took to 1997, the buying started at 1996) and then once you won the players were dumped. Thus, my arguement is if you are going to say that Pudge is a money player, then Florida was just as bad for getting rent a players and winning the series only to cast them off afterwards. Trying to say it works both ways....Here is a small list of players that were brought in in 1996/97 and then cast off before the 1998 season ended, some even before the season started.... Jeff Conine, Bobby Bonilla, Moises Alou, Devon White, Kevin Brown, Al Leiter. That list doesnt include the players that were traded or allowed to leave after the World Series also that had been with the club for a few years but then all of a sudden were cast aside in Charles Johnson, Gary Sheffield, Pat Rapp and Rob Nen. So I am pretty sure all those players weren't a fluke. Most were brought in to win a world series only to be dumped a year later, while mainstays were also dumped in money saving moves. They did bring in the players to buy a World Series. There is nothing wrong with that, but for the fans that are pissed off that Pudge left because of money, I just named 10 reasons why Florida also was all about money. Thus, if they can't see that they are hypocritical. Good enough explanation? :banghead
January 17, 200422 yr Jeff Conine? LOLOLOL Your credibility just died right there. Mr. Marlin was on the Opening Day roster. Yeah, he was one of those free agents we bought. Kevin Brown and Al Leiter too right? Maybe you'd like to include Rob Nen? Or how about Gary Sheffield? They were all here from before. That is just the fact of the matter. Alou came in 97, as did Bonilla. 80% of the starting staff, what won us the World Series? Already there. 77% of the position starters? Already there. Over 90% of the pen? Yup, already there. Maybe you should recheck yourself. The reason the team was gutted was because Huizenga wanted to sell the team for cheap. He was never a baseball owner. He was only ever interested in the Miami Dolphins. He could care less about the Marlins (or the Panthers, of which he did the same thing). Maybe, just MAYBE, you should actually know what you are talking about before you open your big ass mouth.
January 17, 200422 yr The Tigers wont lose 119 next year again. Will they lose 90? Possibly. Their pitching still is not that good. Vina is on the downside of his career. White will get hurt next year at some point, of that I am about 70% sure.... Guillen is decent asa shortstop, but I wouldnt expect him to be a savior or anything at shortstop. Palmer sucks and is done these days. DD is counting the days to get him off his roster and off their payroll. Same goes for Higgenson. What happened to him, I am not sure. Alex Sanchez has speed. Nothing more. If people are thinking he should be leading off then I hope Sanchez has figured out how to get on base on a semi-regular basis. German will be a stud. Levine is a decent setup man. The starters are all unproven, although some have decent stuff. PS....welcome to the new Tiger posters and welcome back to those returning.
January 17, 200422 yr The Tigers wont lose 119 next year again. Will they lose 90? Possibly. Their pitching still is not that good. Vina is on the downside of his career. White will get hurt next year at some point, of that I am about 70% sure.... Guillen is decent asa shortstop, but I wouldnt expect him to be a savior or anything at shortstop. Palmer sucks and is done these days. DD is counting the days to get him off his roster and off their payroll. Same goes for Higgenson. What happened to him, I am not sure. Alex Sanchez has speed. Nothing more. If people are thinking he should be leading off then I hope Sanchez has figured out how to get on base on a semi-regular basis. German will be a stud. Levine is a decent setup man. The starters are all unproven, although some have decent stuff. PS....welcome to the new Tiger posters and welcome back to those returning. Palmer most likely won't even make the team next season. Eric Munson is the Tigers' 3B. Alex Sanchez also has great ability to bunt for base hits. Even when other teams knew it was coming, he would be successful a lot of the time. He does make a lot of boneheaded plays running the basepaths but he is really the only basestealing threat we have. German needs to demonstrate control in Spring Training or else he will likely start the season in Triple-A Toledo. Higginson stinks as does the starting rotation.
January 17, 200422 yr The Tigers, with Pudge, could finish somewhere in the middle of Central if things bounce their way. But then again there is always that rumor Stark broke.....
January 17, 200422 yr I remember Munson being billed as the Tigers savior a few years back, hopefully he can put it all together. If I remember, Sanchez is not that great of a centerfielder also, but I could be wrong. The reason the Tigers lose at least 90 again next year is because of pitching. Everyone is listing their everyday lineup, but ignore the pitching. Why?
January 17, 200422 yr I like the pitching. I think it is talented and just needs to develop a little bite more. Bonderman, Maroth, and the other one whose name I'm forgetting right now (it'll come to be later) have good stuff just need to work on control and mindset.
January 17, 200422 yr How true do you think the rumor is that I Rod will get himself back on the marlins? I think it is just ESPN making things up. If Castro goes to the slammer though (which I doubt, he's an athlete and he would have to leave a lot of incriminating evidence to be guilty), it might seem more realistic. But i doubt it personally.
January 17, 200422 yr I think that for the Marlins to land Pudge back Castro would have to be involved in the deal.
January 17, 200422 yr Jeff Conine? LOLOLOL Your credibility just died right there. Mr. Marlin was on the Opening Day roster. Yeah, he was one of those free agents we bought. Kevin Brown and Al Leiter too right? Maybe you'd like to include Rob Nen? Or how about Gary Sheffield? They were all here from before. That is just the fact of the matter. Alou came in 97, as did Bonilla. 80% of the starting staff, what won us the World Series? Already there. 77% of the position starters? Already there. Over 90% of the pen? Yup, already there. Maybe you should recheck yourself. The reason the team was gutted was because Huizenga wanted to sell the team for cheap. He was never a baseball owner. He was only ever interested in the Miami Dolphins. He could care less about the Marlins (or the Panthers, of which he did the same thing). Maybe, just MAYBE, you should actually know what you are talking about before you open your big ass mouth. Hmm, as I said, most were brought in in 96 AND 97, and the firesale is laughable when selling a club. Yes, you may have to cut corners, but a complete firesale? A club sells fairly frequently in the majors, and you dont see them doing firesales. I am not here to pick fights, but considering that you want to throw words around I am game. Go for it.
January 17, 200422 yr I am not here to pick fights That is questionable, when people here can pick up that you are and people on your own board attack you for doing so. Let's go down the roster and see when everyone arrived, because I am game too and I think I know the team I've been following all my life a little bit better: Kurt Abbott: 1993 Antonio Alfonseca: 1997 (minors call up) Moises Alou: before 1997 season Alex Arias: Expansion Draft Bobby Bonilla: before 1997 season Kevin Brown: 1995 John Cangelosi: 1997 Luis Castillo: 1996 (minors call up) Jeff Conine: Expansion Draft Dennis Cook: 1996 Craig Counsell: 1997 (traded for when he had just been called up from the minors) Darren Daulton: 1997 (midseason trade) Jim Eisenreich: 1997 Alex Fernandez: 1996 Cliff Floyd: 1997 Rick Helling: 1996 Felix Heredia: 1996 (minors call up) Livan Hernandez: 1997 (minors call up, pitched one game in 1996) Mark Hutton: 1996 (traded midseason for Counsell) Charles Johnson: 1994 (MLB Debut, he was first ever Marlins draft pick out of the U of M) Al Leiter: 1995 Matt "Iceman" Mantei: 1995 (minors call up, didn't pitch in 1997) Bob Natal: 1993 Rob Nen: 1993 Jay Powell: 1995 Pat Rapp: 1993 Edgar Renteria: 1996 (minors call up) Tony Saunders: 1997 (minors call up) Gary Sheffield: 1993 John Whener: 1997 Devon White: 1996 Gregg Zaun: 1996 Damn man, what a bought team!
January 18, 200422 yr I think that for the Marlins to land Pudge back Castro would have to be involved in the deal. he's talking about may 1st dude. you cant just sign and trade a player. You have to wait an obligatory amount of time before you can trade him after you sign him.
January 18, 200422 yr Pudge can waive it if he pleases. And if the Tigers were to trade Pudge to the Fish after signing him (which I extremely doubt) Castro would most likely be the payment sent for him.
January 18, 200422 yr Jeff Conine? LOLOLOL Your credibility just died right there. Mr. Marlin was on the Opening Day roster. Yeah, he was one of those free agents we bought. Kevin Brown and Al Leiter too right? Maybe you'd like to include Rob Nen? Or how about Gary Sheffield? They were all here from before. That is just the fact of the matter. Alou came in 97, as did Bonilla. 80% of the starting staff, what won us the World Series? Already there. 77% of the position starters? Already there. Over 90% of the pen? Yup, already there. Maybe you should recheck yourself. The reason the team was gutted was because Huizenga wanted to sell the team for cheap. He was never a baseball owner. He was only ever interested in the Miami Dolphins. He could care less about the Marlins (or the Panthers, of which he did the same thing). Maybe, just MAYBE, you should actually know what you are talking about before you open your big ass mouth. Hmm, as I said, most were brought in in 96 AND 97, and the firesale is laughable when selling a club. Yes, you may have to cut corners, but a complete firesale? A club sells fairly frequently in the majors, and you dont see them doing firesales. I am not here to pick fights, but considering that you want to throw words around I am game. Go for it. dude, we didnt firesale! our former greedy ass bastard of an owner did yet you are saying its our fault? :banghead
January 18, 200422 yr Ramp drop it, he isn't worth it. Not even the people on his own board like him. Apparently he is their version of Pubes.
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