1. Oakland

2. Boston

3. New York

4. Chicago

5. Houston

6. Florida

7. Seattle

8. Philadelphia

9. Los Angeles

10. Chicago

I voted Yankees because I want to spite the people who are out of their mind and vote for the boston rotation. Its a toss up between oakland and ny. boston really isn't close. Besides pedro, what other edge do they have over the yankees (that being brown is statistically better than schilling.) None.

1. Oakland

2. Boston

3. New York

4. Chicago

5. Houston

6. Florida

7. Seattle

8. Philadelphia

9. Los Angeles

10. Chicago

I agree with your top 10

 

I assume Chitown in the 10 hole is the ChiSox right?

Oakland. Hands Down.

MY top 5 (and of course, because I am ALWAYS 100% right, there's no question to it!)

 

1. Oakland Athletics

2. New York Yankees

3. Boston Red Sox

4. Chicago Cubs

5. Seattle Mariners

Top 10:

1. A's

2. Cubs

3. Red Sox

4. Marlins

5. Yankees

6. Astros

7. Phillies

8. Toronto

9. ChiSox

10. Dodgers

1. Oakland

2. Boston

3. New York

4. Chicago

5. Houston

6. Florida

7. Seattle

8. Philadelphia

9. Los Angeles

10. Chicago

That sounds good.

2/3: Lowe might be better with Pokey defending behind him, then again Wakefield may be sh*t, and Schilling and Pedro don't go deep into their starts. For the Yankees Lieber is a bigger risk than our Burnett is because of the age difference. More younger pitchers have come back to have successful years after Tommy Johnthan older pitchers. As is Vazquez and Mussina with Jeter, Soriano and now Giambi full-time botching plays.

 

5/6: Common baseball sense tells you that the Astros' staff will perform worse than last year than the Marlins will this year because of developmental patterns. However Pavano and Penny have shown a lot of talent and not much else. Beckett hasn't had the chance to show anything in a full year of work. Burnett is a risk, and Willis looked tapped late last year (but better after working with Rosenthal in the playoffs.)

1. Oakland

2. Boston

3. New York

4. Chicago

5. Houston

6. Florida

7. Seattle

8. Philadelphia

9. Los Angeles

10. Chicago

I agree with your top 10

 

I assume Chitown in the 10 hole is the ChiSox right? yeah

how about if i extended it to 15, i would definitely add SF, Arizona and Montreal, as well as Atlanta, and Toronto

I continue to be insulted that the Marlins are not top 5.

The Marlins "aces" have failed to pitch full seasons last year. The yankees being behind the red sox is an insult. I can name an "older pitcher" who recovered quite well from tommy john...tommy john!

My opinion

 

1- Oakland

2- Boston

3- Chicago NL

4- Florida (with a healthy AJ ... if not they fall to # 7)

5- Houston

 

6- Phillies

7- Yankees

8- Seattle

9- San Fran

10-Braves

 

11- Anaheim

12- Toronto

13- Twins / / Montreal

14- Arizona

15- Dodgers / / K.C.

 

worst rotations

5- Detroit (just because the talent is there)

4- Tampa Bay

3- Pirates

2- Reds

1- Texas ... given

Yankees 7? That's surely laughable. If any other team had a rotation of Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, Mike Mussina, Jose Contreras, and Jon Lieber, they would not be ranked 7. If the red sox had that rotation, they would be ranked 1. the prejudice is disgusting.

yankee fan at last ... who is contreras? ... who is Jon Lieber? ... Kevin Brown was good last year what about the past 6.

 

please dude ... its my opinion

 

 

Yanks = Overated

 

last years staff was much better

If Kevin Lieber and his yet untested arm belong in the top 5, then the Marlins and AJ definately do.

I have tgo go with the cubs. Even though i hate their fans i still have to say they have the best rotation. As long as they have Prior, who can actually get better, Wood, Clement and Zambrano they will be a dominating force.

I will make my final argument now, because I have reiterated it so many times it is useless. I will let the season do my talking.

 

If Kevin Lieber and his yet untested arm belong in the top 5, then the Marlins and AJ definately do.

Juanky, your argument is very poor. First, you are talking about 20 game winner Jon Lieber with a tested arm because he has already started pitching (in GCL(sp)?) last season. His velocity is up.

 

Now let's compare the Yankees rotation to the marlins if we consider both a recovering AJ and JL equal gambles (when in reality AJ is going to need more time than John.)

 

Marlins

Beckett 142 IP 3.04 era 132 era+

Pavano 201 IP 4.30 era 94 era+

Penny 196.3 IP 4.03 era 98 era+

Willis 160.7 IP 3.30 era 122 era+

Total innings: 700 IP Total era 3.77 Total era+ 111.5 (average is 100)

 

Yankees

Brown 211 IP 2.39 era 169 era+

Vazquez 230.7 IP 3.24 era 153 era+

Mussina 214.7 IP 3.40 era 129 era+

Contreras 71.0 IP 3.30 era 133 era+

Total innings: 727.4 IP Total era: 3.04 Total era+ 146 (average is 100)

 

Even with Contreras injury the Yankees have 27.4 more innings, and the earned run average is .73 better, and your pitchers were in a pitchers park! Adjusted era on the Yankees is 46% better on average while the Marlins are only 11.5% better than average.

 

It is an insult to a great pitching staff that the Yankees be place under the Marlins when we compound statistics. Don't write back "but we beat you in the world series", because that is irrelevant to this discussion (I have conceded man an occasion that the Marlins were a better team than the Yankees last year since May 15th.)

 

So do the Marlins deserve to be in the top 5? After losing Redman, your starting rotation's starters for the begginning of last season are just11.5% better than last year's average. Does that warrant top 5 in your opinion? AJ will be back, but his lowest era+ in a healthy season was 121 and actual era was 3.30. So though that is an excellent pitcher, it is certainly not going to tip the balance in the measure of "overall best rotation."

 

Juanky, you're a smart guy, you might be president, but I hope you read the preceding.

 

yankee fan at last ... who is contreras? ... who is Jon Lieber? ... Kevin Brown was good last year what about the past 6.

please dude ... its my opinion

Yanks = Overated

last years staff was much better

Dude, Hitler had an opinion and it was a very bad one.

 

Who is contreras? He's a man with a 2.34 era, .99 WHIP, 8.91 K/9IP, 3.00 K/BB as a starter...absurdley good statistics for his 9 starts against some good hitting teams as well. His total era with relieving is 3.30. Its obvious, this guy has 1 starter caliber stuff. I concede he did not pitch a full season next year so one can't come to a decision of overall skill, but Beckett did not either remember.

 

Jon Lieber is a man who was a innings eater with an above average era who is now throwing faster than he ever did and his fully recovered from surgery (2 years) unlike Burnett.

 

Kevin Brown and the last 6 years? His eras of the last 6 years:

1998 2.38

1999 3.00

2000 2.58

2001 2.65

2002 4.81

2003 2.39

 

He has been a superb pitcher the last 6 years, only once having an era over 3.00.

 

And compare that to Curt Schilling:

1998 3.25

1999 3.54

2000 3.81

2001 2.98

2002 3.23

2003 2.95

 

Curt has not been as good. Here are their average eras from the last 6 years:

 

Curt Schilling: 3.28

Kevin Brown: 2.72

 

that's a .56 era difference

 

So, if brown really hasn't been a good pitcher for the last 6 years, that mus mean schilling is REALLY bad, and I scoff at such an assumption.

 

conclusion

The Yankees starting rotation on paper is extremely good, better than the Marlins, possibly better than any rotation in baseball (Oakland is probably the ebst because of consistancy.) To place it as 7th is an insult to the great players that grace their spots on it. Please, if insane things (unpredictable things) happen next season, cut me some slack, because I can only work with the numbers that exist. I cannot forsee Mike Mussina being hit in the head with a ball or Pedro facing a career ending injury, Beckett with more problems on his hands and ect. That being said, I believe the Yankees surely have the ability to have the best rotation in baseball, because it is truly that good.

OK I am not going to sit here and argue that the Marlins have a better staff than the yankees as of right now but I am not going out on a limb by saying that they have a chance of being better than them at the end of the season. Becket looked like a CY Young winner in the playoffs. Pavano had a 1.01 era in the playoffs and Penny also looked like an ACE in the WS. So why is it wrong to put the Marlins over the Yankees?

 

OK OK you have Brown who is great when healthy, You have Jon Lieber who is also great when healthy, You have Vazquez who is a good starter, Jose Contreras who has a nasty splitter and Mussina who is good also. BUT Brown is very injury prone and is switching league, Lieber has not pitched for over a year and has not allowed under 25 homers in a season when he has 200 innings of work and now he has that porch in right field, Contreras has not yet played a full season as a starter, and Vazquez is switching leagues as is Brown and was not very successful when he pitched vs the american leage

 

ALSO the Yankees do not have a lefty in the starting rotation. I do not believe that the yankees can survive without one. That 315 ft right field fence is looking better and better for opposing players each day

 

The Marlins have Beckett, Pavano, Penny, Willis, and hopefully Burnett.

 

All but Pavano and Willis, and he came was promoted just before the All Star break, had an injury problem last season, that is why the Yankees have more total innings than the Marlins.

 

The Marlins pitching staff just dominated the Yankees in the WS so why cant they continue? I believe with a healthy Burnett that they can become better than the yankee starters.

 

I no SorianoFan is going to argue, IM READY!!

OK I am not going to sit here and argue that the Marlins have a better staff than the yankees as of right now but I am not going out on a limb by saying that they have a chance of being better than them at the end of the season.

The rest of your post however is dedicated to how the Marlins are better.

 

Becket looked like a CY Young winner in the playoffs. Pavano had a 1.01 era in the playoffs and Penny also looked like an ACE in the WS. So why is it wrong to put the Marlins over the Yankees?

 

Pavano throughout his career is not what one considers a quality pitcher. The same can be said about penny. Beckett can be very good, but he is yet to pitch a full season.

 

I'll tell you why it's wrong to put the marlins over the yankees. It is wrong to take 1 or 2 starts from individual pitchers and then make the claim that somehow that staff must be automatically superior. Unless they have pitched historically well in the postseason (like mariano rivera), you can't even make the claim that a "pitcher is clutch". They surely appear so, but if you look below, penny's hits+BB over strike outs was horrible, meaning that he made outs so well via luck.

 

World Series

Beckett's had 13 H+ BB/ 19 K

Pavano 9/6 K

Penny 20/7 K

 

Mussina 8/9K

 

However, this is irrelevant. It was too short a series to make such an assumption, especially when career statistics are so much more useful.

 

OK OK you have Brown who is great when healthy, You have Jon Lieber who is also great when healthy, You have Vazquez who is a good starter, Jose Contreras who has a nasty splitter and Mussina who is good also. BUT Brown is very injury prone and is switching league,

That's a tale. He had a shoulder injury, just like Pedro. He rushed recoverey and reignited that previous shoulder injury. It finally got fully healed, and he was the same old brown again and any time he missed was from a totally unrelated injury. At this point, he is about just as injury prone as Curt Schilling in my honest opinion (who missed even more time last year.)

 

Lieber has not pitched for over a year and has not allowed under 25 homers in a season when he has 200 innings of work and now he has that porch in right field,

 

That short porch is overrated. Giambi hit more homers on the road than at the stadium. Lieber pitched at Wrigley, a more homer happy park.

 

Contreras has not yet played a full season as a starter,

Neither has Beckett, but do we doubt the skill either have?

 

and Vazquez is switching leagues as is Brown and was not very successful when he pitched vs the american leage

Vazquez is shifting leagues, but he used the second most changeups in the majors and he has a good heater. If you trick hitters, leagues shouldn;t make a difference. Brown had a mid 3 era when he wasn't injured in the AL and he played in hitter parks. He became a better pitcher afterwards and he happened to be in the NL. He did win 21 games with Texas.

 

ALSO the Yankees do not have a lefty in the starting rotation. I do not believe that the yankees can survive without one. That 315 ft right field fence is looking better and better for opposing players each day

That's a horrible argument. The red sox have no lefty. Mike Mussina and Contreras are better against lefties, and Kevin Brown is almost as ridiculously good against lefties as he is with righties. Mussina, Brown, Contreras, and Vazquez are all better against lefties tahn anyone on the market (including milton, wells, and pettitte.) So what's your point? So that 314 foot fence isn't looking so hot when kevin brown has a 2.04 era against lefties and a .621 ops.

 

The Marlins have Beckett, Pavano, Penny, Willis, and hopefully Burnett.

 

All but Pavano and Willis, and he came was promoted just before the All Star break, had an injury problem last season, that is why the Yankees have more total innings than the Marlins.

 

Yes, so why do you discount Contreras for his innings? You're being inconsistant.

 

The Marlins pitching staff just dominated the Yankees in the WS so why cant they continue? I believe with a healthy Burnett that they can become better than the yankee starters.

Okay, a total of 6 games will decide who has the best rotation next year...I'll take season statistics, you take 6 games...I think my argument is far stronger.

Ok I am going to say this short and sweet for you all.

 

Marlins are the number four rotation in baseball and the yankees are number five. There that was easy. Juanky and I must be the only ones who consider the Marlins a top-five rotation.

With the addition of Maddux:

 

1. Cubs (NL)

2. Oakland

3. Boston

4. New York

5. Florida

6. Houston

7. Philly

8. Seattle

9. Chicago (AL)

10. Atlanta

Ok I am going to say this short and sweet for you all.

 

Marlins are the number four rotation in baseball and the yankees are number five. There that was easy. Juanky and I must be the only ones who consider the Marlins a top-five rotation.

My impression of you:

 

The Devil Rays are definitely a top five team, at least number four.

 

Why? Just because. Who cares I USE NO EVIDENCE to formulate an argument, just because!!!

boston really isn't close. Besides pedro, what other edge do they have over the yankees (that being brown is statistically better than schilling.) None.

You're asking others for statistical proof. Prove that to me.

Yankees 7? That's surely laughable. If any other team had a rotation of Kevin Brown, Javier Vazquez, Mike Mussina, Jose Contreras, and Jon Lieber, they would not be ranked 7. If the red sox had that rotation, they would be ranked 1. the prejudice is disgusting.

brown= injury prone

vazquez= overated

mussina= overated

contreras= unproven

lieber= garbage

Mussina wouldn't be overrated if the Yankees had a defense to support him