Fishin2004

I don't know why but JJ hasn't played a game (in PR winter league) since November 18th. 10 at bats, four hits. That was it. Frisaro is saying (I assume from the Marlins FO) he will be given the opportunity to win the third base job this spring. If so, there's so many questions that opens up. I don't have to put up a list of players that potentially affects but besides the obvious Sanchez and Morrison are the two at the bottom who could fall off the quickest. I think the reason Frisaro said that is because under Rule 5 rules, if he doesn't make the opening day roster, he gets sent back to Boston. So it seems that they wouldn't take this guy if they didn't think there was a chance he was better than their other 3b options. Of course, doesn't mean that Gaby and Morrison are any less valuable, just means that they may be in the minors one more year....

arrange for a bond underwriter to place the bonds with investors, corporate or individual. believe me you don't want to know the intricacies of bond financing. I see....so basically what the city and county have agreed to do here is sell a bunch of bonds and use that money to pay for the stadium. Thanks. Correct. They just need to make sure that the bonds do, in fact, sell on the open market. If they don't, then we have problems. If they can't sell those bonds, then there are bigger problems than just this stadium financing. Fishin2004 - I'm not sure what the money is going toward matters as to the "safeness" of the investment, in and of itself. If an investor is looking to purchase those bonds, they are looking at the overall financial situation of the county, not what the specific money is going toward. Everything else looks good, though. Right - I suppose the reason no one is concerned is likely because these days, you'd think people who have money to invest are looking for something secure like government bonds.

arrange for a bond underwriter to place the bonds with investors, corporate or individual. believe me you don't want to know the intricacies of bond financing. I see....so basically what the city and county have agreed to do here is sell a bunch of bonds and use that money to pay for the stadium. Thanks.

I'm no expert, but I think it means if they can't secure the bonds, they can kill the deal. Nobody involved in the deal thinks this will be a problem. OK...so I'm gonna really expose my ignorance and ask what it means to "secure the bonds". Here's what I'm taking away from all of this: the city, county, and Marlins all agreed to put themselves on the hook for the money, but they don't actually have that kind of money lying around right now to spend. Now they need to seek investors who actually have that kind of money lying around, and because investing in a deal backed by earmarked government funds is generally a low-risk investment, they expect that finding such financing should not be difficult. Is that a fair assessment?

Reading the article in the Herald about the new stadium, I noticed this line: "If the county, city or Marlins can't find proper financing by July 1, any of the entities can kill the deal." Can someone please explain to me what this means? These days, hearing someone say "OK, great, we're all set....now all we need is $500 million in financing" doesn't really instill a lot of confidence, but no one really seems all that concerned. Why is that? What was all this county and city voting about, if they still need to find financing for the stadium? Article: http://www.miamiherald.com/486/story/964612-p2.html

I've gotta think that if he signs anywhere for the minimum, it will be here. He could easily be our everyday catcher by showing he's even just 70% of what he once was. Most other teams either have a better option, or an option they are hoping to groom. But if he's going to play for the minimum, there's no point in signing until he absolutely needs to. That offer will always be on the table. Plus, there's always the chance that he only wants to play b/c he sees this as his last chance to make a few extra million. In that case, he may just wait until spring training to see if someone's catcher gets hurt.

the marlins arent ever going to get a stadium. and if they do...it wont be here. and if they do...we wont be around long enough to see it. im going out on a limb here but i think... if the marlins dont get their stadium they will renogotiate with new dolphins owner and extend the lease at dolphin stadium another 8 to 10 years. guys....they have NOWHERE to go. plus, did you know that the marlins franchise is one of the most profitable in all of sports? why would they go anywhere? (i will find the si article where i read those statistics and post it later). alone in tv deals they make a killing. at the end, of the day i think they will get their stadium...but dont buy into this "relocation" sh*t. its just a strategy. if they were really going to relocate they wouldve done it by now. NOBODY is going to build them a stadium. and another scenario, if they cant they dont work it out with the city and county, is that loria will have to sell the team or partner up with someone who is willing to invest big bucks. there is also alot of influence from mlb...they want baseball in miami. you're not out on a limb at all...you're 100% right. in this economic climate, who has $500 million bucks. Vegas? Forget it...they've been hit harder than anyone. what we saw at the commissioner's meeting was note a vote against the stadium, it was negotiation. the threat of relocation has been greatly reduced over the past 6 months, and commissioners know this. so they want to re-negotiate. Samson was rightfully upset at the way that they did it, but let's face it - the commissioners thought the city could get a better deal. And it appears that they were right. because the team didn't respond by saying "if you don't take this deal, we're out of here", they said "if you don't take this deal, we've gotta re-negotiate". those are two very different things. yup check out this article http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/baseball/story/904998.html I'd also like to point out that - as much of a jerk as that commissioner was - at least two of his three terms were not really unreasonable. He wanted to cap the amount paid on the garage...the Marlins accepted that on the spot. So then there's the other two. I think that his request for naming rights money will be tough, but honestly it seems totally reasonable to me that they want to dissuade Loria from flipping the team. The Marlins are sitting up there crying to the city about how this about the honor of keeping baseball in Miami, but let's not forget that the value of this team likely doubles once the ground is broken on this new stadium. I don't blame the city at all wanting a piece of that...I don't see what it's more fair that Loria gets it when he didn't want to pony up the money for the stadium in the first place.

the marlins arent ever going to get a stadium. and if they do...it wont be here. and if they do...we wont be around long enough to see it. im going out on a limb here but i think... if the marlins dont get their stadium they will renogotiate with new dolphins owner and extend the lease at dolphin stadium another 8 to 10 years. guys....they have NOWHERE to go. plus, did you know that the marlins franchise is one of the most profitable in all of sports? why would they go anywhere? (i will find the si article where i read those statistics and post it later). alone in tv deals they make a killing. at the end, of the day i think they will get their stadium...but dont buy into this "relocation" sh*t. its just a strategy. if they were really going to relocate they wouldve done it by now. NOBODY is going to build them a stadium. and another scenario, if they cant they dont work it out with the city and county, is that loria will have to sell the team or partner up with someone who is willing to invest big bucks. there is also alot of influence from mlb...they want baseball in miami. you're not out on a limb at all...you're 100% right. in this economic climate, who has $500 million bucks. Vegas? Forget it...they've been hit harder than anyone. what we saw at the commissioner's meeting was note a vote against the stadium, it was negotiation. the threat of relocation has been greatly reduced over the past 6 months, and commissioners know this. so they want to re-negotiate. Samson was rightfully upset at the way that they did it, but let's face it - the commissioners thought the city could get a better deal. And it appears that they were right. because the team didn't respond by saying "if you don't take this deal, we're out of here", they said "if you don't take this deal, we've gotta re-negotiate". those are two very different things.

Here's what PECOTA does: it takes the last three years worth of stats that a given player has had, finds players throughout baseball history who have had similar statistics over a three-year stretch at the same age, and then tries to predict what will happen in 2009 for today's player based upon what happened to all of those players in the past in the year after that three year stretch. You can see why this would cause problems for the Marlins players. Many of them - Cantu, Nolasco, Anibal for example - have had at least one lost season in the past three years. PECOTA is going to find many disfavorable comparative players who have had a three year stretch like they have had, and that will bring down their projections. Then again, PECOTA's skepticism just goes to show how difficult the things that we take for granted (i.e, Anibal's return to no-hitter form) really are.

Cantu just put us in the lead with a monster but to respond, yes I do know great attorneys and I do know people who are up there in city management. If you watched those webcasts a while back, you saw him. No one that I know who has worked directly with this stadium deal is concerned AT ALL about ANY of these issues. I dont blame any marlins fan for being scared. Like I said in my post before, its understandable, BUT listen to me people. I promise you this is done and in the bag. There has already been too much money put into this deal for it to be turned around. Its done, finished, complete, and guaranteed. We need to start having some positive discussion about what we want in the stadium I think it's good to remember the County Commission vote. Remember how they were all ready to postpone the deal, claimed they were going to kill it, and one guy even tore it up...all because they were trying to get their own piece of the pie a little bit bigger? One wanted more assurances of inner city baseball, another wanted more assurances that local business would be used.... But then, when they realized that voting "no" might actually kill the stadium for real, they all voted for it. Same thing will happen here. County and City cops are posturing b/c they want a bigger piece of the pie, but neither side wants no pie at all. Assuming they have professionals dealing with these negotiations who are negotiating rationally and not emotionally, this will eventually get done.

Maybe they could spring for an extra pair or two, just in case. maybe he could. it's not like he isn't making enough money to pay for them. i'm surprised he doesn't have multiple pairs in his car and at home. even i buy prescription glasses three at a time. I like how suddenly Gregg is the token "rich guy" on the Marlins....

MIAMI (CBS4) ― It's stadium so our police officers will patrol it. With that sentiment in mind, the Miami Dade County Commission voted Tuesday to require county police officers and firefighters to provide security, police and fire rescue services at the new Miami Marlins stadium when it's completed. The vote was just another step toward a showdown with the City of Miami feels their officers should provide security and fire services for the new stadium since it sits inside the city's limits. CBS4's news partners at the Miami Herald report last week Miami commissioners voted to demand that off-duty City of Miami police officers to get the dozens of hourly jobs such as stadium security, traffic control and paramedic services. The county is likely to reject this demand saying while the ballpark will be within the city limits, the stadium itself will be owned by the county government. The unions which represent both city and county officers are preparing for their own battle to secure the police and fire contract rights to the stadium. In an effort to make some sort of concession to their city counterparts, county commissioners have considered giving city police the outside-the-stadium traffic spots, as well as all positions at a new soccer stadium the city has plans to build next door. http://cbs4.com/local/miami.dade.commission.2.669222.html How exactly does this issue get negotiated? Do the unions negotiate with one another? Is it purely up to the county and city commissions?

Can someone explain to me what Braman's angle is in all this? Is he simply a fiscal conservative who doesn't believe tax money should go towards a stadium? Or does he have some other angle here I'm not seeing?

I've always found it expensive to argue with lawyers, my own or otherwise so I'll defer to you. Haha...hey, believe me, nobody hopes I'm wrong on this more than me! In fact, if the Marlins legal team was looking for help to defend against this Braman case, I'd consider working pro bono.....

I'm not a lawyer (nor do I play one on TV) but I'm sure a number of them will opine as the day goes on. Here's my read. This is only a "subsidy" if the Marlins owned the stadium which they do not. The county has decided in its infinite wisdom with excellent legal advice before moving forward, to construct a building in which baseball may be played. They have been lucky enough to find a tenant for said building before even beginning construction and further that tenant has agreed to "give" the county $150+ million towards their project. The county is not subsidizing the Marlins, the Marlins are in fact subsidizing a municipally owned building to the tune of $150,000,000+. Every time the county commits $500 million to a project they should be so lucky as to find someone in the private sector who is willing to give them a third of the construction costs before they start building. Am I being disingenuous? Just a bit. The point is the flaw in the argument above is that it isn't the Marlins' stadium, it's Miami-Dade's stadium built on Miami-Dade county land and which will be theirs forever. Nowhere in the deal does it anticipate turning over ownership of the building to the Marlins or any other privately-held company. Were the county to use it's taxing powers to create a revenue stream they would turn over to the Marlins to build their own stadium, THAT would illegal. It isn't by accident this deal has been structured the way it has. Don't lose a minute of sleep over this, it was a waste of your time and mine just reading it. I actually am a lawyer...and I disagree with your reading. The language of the statute says: "neither the state nor any county shall....give, lend or use its taxing power or credit to aid any corporation, association, partnership or person." While you're correct to say that the issue of Marlins ownership or some city-team partnership would come in conflict with this statute, by the letter of the statute so would any "aid" whatsoever to a particular corporation, association, partnership, or person. Can anyone argue that by building a baseball-only stadium using public funds the county is not giving "aid" to the Marlins? Now, what the author of the original post said is correct - if this statute is enforced here, it could be enforced against ANY of Florida's teams, which is a compelling reason to disregard it. But the "you didn't enforce it before, so you can't enforce it now!" defense doesn't really hold much water in court, and assuming their lawyers are any good, I suspect you're gonna hear this argument if these lawsuits get before a judge.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/02/sports_...ns_sta.php#more Sports and the Law: Marlins Stadium Subsidy Might Violate State Constitution The thirteen commissioners of Miami-Dade County are expected on Thursday to approve a proposal to spend $347 million in taxpayer money to build a new 37,000-seat, retractable roof stadium for the Florida Marlins. This proposal would not only provide a huge subsidy to the team’s much maligned owner, Jeffrey Loria, but it also might violate the Florida Constitution. According to published reports, the Marlins stadium proposal would require Miami-Dade County to contribute roughly two-thirds of the cost for the new stadium, with the city of Miami contributing roughly 3% ($10 million), and Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria contributing 30% ($155 million). According to Miami Today, Mr. Loria would then be allowed to sell the stadium’s naming rights to a third party, expected to fetch him more than $155 million. A number of Miami-Dade County residents are unhappy about the idea of publicly funding a new stadium for Mr. Loria, who has never invested much of his own money in the Marlins ball club. Recently, on December 5, 2007, Mr. Loria traded away the Marlins’ two most productive players, Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis — a move that reduced team payroll to less than $25 million, the lowest in Major League Baseball. For purposes of comparison, the New York Yankees projected 2008 payroll is $213 million. The Yankees, incidentally, are privately financing their new stadium. Many economists believe the only reason that counties including Miami-Dade publicly finance sports stadiums is fear of losing their team to another city. Historically, absent threats of forming a rival league, Major League Baseball (“MLB�) has maintained fewer teams than there are municipalities that can economically sustain them. As a result, owners such as Jeffrey Loria are able to credibly threaten to relocate their team if host cities do not submit to their funding demands. As explained by former Washington D.C. mayor Sharon Pratt Kelly, “[t]he mayors of American cities are confronted with a prisoner’s dilemma of sorts. If no mayor succumbs to the demands of a franchise shopping for a new home then the team will stay where they are. This, however, is unlikely to happen because if Mayor A is not willing to pay the price, Mayor B may think it is advantageous to open up the city’s wallet. Then to protect his or her interest, Mayor A often ends up paying the demand price.� In the case of the Marlins, the officious “Mayor B� is Las Vegas’s flamboyant Oscar Goodman, who has been courting an MLB team for years. With this type of situation in mind, scholars as well as both federal and state legislators have long debated how to prevent sports clubs from demanding subsidies from American cities (PDF). Congress, for instance, has considered many bills to prevent team owners from relocating if denied pubic financing. Most notably, in 1999, Arlen Specter (R-Pennsylvania) proposed the Stadium Financing and Franchise Relocation Act (S.952), which, if passed, would have required MLB and National Football League owners to fund at least 75% of their stadium costs with private money. S.952, however, was never passed. The Florida Constitution, meanwhile, includes its own language that may prevent Florida’s municipalities from subsidizing stadiums. Article VII, Section 10 of the Florida Constitution states that “[n]either the state nor any county … shall become a joint owner with, or stockholder of, or give, lend or use its taxing power or credit to aid any corporation, association, partnership or person.� In addition, Article VII, Section 9 prevents Florida’s counties from levying taxes for anything other than “municipal purposes.� The Supreme Court of Florida, in Brandes v. City of Deerfield Beach (1966), held that building a professional baseball stadium is not a municipal purpose. Nevertheless, Florida’s municipalities continue to regularly subsidize sports facilities without much of a legal challenge. Perhaps because enforcing Brandes’s narrow interpretation of “municipal purposes� would lead to Florida losing most, if not all, of its professional sports teams, no current court would likely adopt this interpretation. With that said, however, Florida residents are generally more hostile toward Jeffrey Loria than they are toward most of their state’s other sports owners. Consequently, both Thursday’s vote in Miami-Dade County and the public reaction to the vote’s results are worthy of close attention. Presuming that the Miami-Dade County commissioners approve the proposed $347 million in public financing for a Marlins new stadium, it will be interesting to see if any anti-stadium litigation follows.

You know, it's funny...you look at that Old 5, and you think of them as the Marlins 2003-04 rotation. But you know what? I can't remember any time when those 5 pitched on 5 consecutive nights. AJ and Beckett were hurt in 2003....Pavano and Penny left in 2004. The best it ever got for us was when Beckett got healthy at the end of 2003 and we had Beckett\Pavano\Willis\Penny\Redman, but even THEN, Willis lost it at the end of the year and was removed from the rotation in the playoffs! Therefore, I think the New 5 is better, because the "Old 5" never really ever existed as a real rotation. It's imaginary....we never had access to all 5 of those guys at any one time. And I'd rather have these 5 than any 3 of those guys, which is really the most we ever had at one time.

Don't think it's a coincidence that somehow this offer got leaked to the press. Clearly the Marlins didn't do it, because all indications are they aren't even paying attention to it. Wayne knows that if he tells people "I offered millions of dollars and 15 acres of land in a great location, and they won't even TALK with me!!!", the response will be overwhelmingly in his favor. He knows he's got the Marlins by the balls, and i suspect he's trying to bully them into another bad deal using the court of public opinion. That being said, I sure would love to hear something soon from the Marlins as to why this isn't a viable option. All they'd have to do is say something like "what Wayne's not telling you is what he wants in return...." The longer they stay silent, the worse they look.

I think these people should get their money back. The bad blood that will be created by the lawsuit that will likely happen here will far outweigh the amount of money the team will keep. Give someone's money back this year, and then maybe they'll come back to you in 2008 when the team is in better shape. Force them to take you to court, then sure, maybe you'll get their money this year....but never, ever again. It's actions like this that make it impossible for the team to gain any momentum in South Florida.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/franchiseRanks The Marlins are ranked 53rd... They are 11th in revenues directly from fans divided by wins in the past three years They are 80th in ownership honesty and loyalty to players and city These numbers are out of 91 teams... How does that "revenues divided by wins" category work. So, to be #1 on that list, you want to earn the most revenues, but have the fewest wins? do you want to be high or low on that list? i don't understand.

I think the plan is flawed. I don't think we know what the "plan" is yet. And it may be that in fact as has been suggested in various threads, Beinfest is shopping for others. I think you guys are kidding yourselves if you think these moves are the first step in some larger series of moves that will end with us trading these young guys for players we can start next year. the plan here is: trade anyone who is making any money in exchange for the best cheap players you can get for them, and bring the payroll down to the lowest in the majors, and then start a AAA team + Dontrelle and Miggy.

Marlins2003 has become way too condescending for my tastes. I used to respect his opinions even when I disagreed. I'm an acquired taste. As Rferry opined, guys ike Berardino, who picks his stats to fit his dialogue of hate, is playing with your heads. There is nothing MB wants to do more than further the chasm between fan and team. To Dan, the prime minister of Marlins loathing in South Florida, this is just another opportunity to pour salt in the wound since he was frozen out of the McKeon hiring/Torborg firing story. just because he hates the team and wants to pour salt in the wound doesn't mean he's wrong. I can't believe anyone would argue that the fans don't have the right to be upset at the team right now. yes, they did everything in their power to make this a compettive team over the past 3 years. but come on...that doesn't mean that this is any fun. look - we are taking the shaft right now. it's part of being a small-market team. it's life, and we're gonna make the best of it and hope that the Marlins stay in South Florida forever. But let's not pretend it's something that it's not - it sucks. anyone in their right minds would rather be in the Red Sox shoes right now and have the money to afford to take on Beckett and Lowell at the cost of Ramirez. it sucks to be us right now. we can roll with it, we can keep supporting our guys, but we don't have to like it.

GUYS.....EVERYONE IS LEAVING!!!!! Why keep around ONE expensive player if you're already dumping everyone other expensive player? it makes NO sense. So we keep Lo Duca, and then what - instead of winning 70 games, we win 73? how does that make any sense whatsoever? Lo Duca is gone. Pierre is gone. What more does this team have to do to get their point across - they are dumping anyone that earns any kind of salary, period. The End. Everyone needs to start moving on from these guys, and start getting pumped for the new blood. Why trade for young prospect pitchers if you can't develop them? Look, I am not saying that a guy like Petit, or Sanchez, or any other young pitcher for the Marlins ABSOLUTELY NEED LoDuca, but I can guarantee you that if LoDuca is behind the plate instead of a young catcher, our young pitchers will develop faster and be more efficient. I understand the Marlins are cutting costs, but you have to put money into your investments. Sure 6 mil per year is alot, but dont you think the Marlins, even with their financial woes, would be willing to give up 6 mil/ year if it mean that say 3 of the young pitchers we received or pitchers already in our farm system turn out to be like a Beckett, Burnett, Willis, or Penny? Its obvious this team is looking into the future, and I believe the best way for the Marlins to have a great future is to develop their young pitchers as best as possible, and that means keeping LoDuca. You're missing the point of this whole thing tho, Brandman. You're acting like this "fire sale" has an element of strategy to it. It's not like the Marlins are saying "well, we COULD keep Lo Duca, Lowell, Pierre, and Delgado, but we think that we'll be better in the long run if we trade them away for prospects." This whole thing is being done out of necessity. Want to know how despirate our situation is? To get rid of Lowell's contract (a guy only making roughly $2 million more than Lo Duca next year, by the way), we gave away Josh Beckett basically for free. These are not moves made out of strategy - these are moves made out of necessity. Lo Duca staying around just isn't an option. Neither is Pierre, or Gonzo, neither was Luis, Delgado, Mota, etc. Every contract we signed since 2003 (Delgado, Castillo, Lo Duca, Lowell) was only made possible due to the hope\expectation that a new stadium was coming, and with the new stadium would come new revenue that would allow them to pay off these contracts. Now that the stadium is not happening, none of those contracts make any sense, so they all gotta go. Well obivously there HAS been an element of strategy to this firesale, that much is very clear. With the overwhelming amount of young pitchers being picked up, the Marlins aren't just trading Beckett, Delgado, and everyone else for random players, it is clear the Marlins want to establish another young-strong rotation. Yes, what we got in return for some of these trades arn't the best prospects in the world, but it is almost certain that at least 2 of our new pitchers we got via trades in return will be all-star quality players down the road. I think the Marlins have done a decent job acquiring talent in this firesale, even though it sucks to see all these players get moved. Also, I have to point out again that Paul LoDuca should be kept for 1 reason, our young pitching. The only veteran from last year who could help our young rotation this year besides Beckett was LoDuca All of the trades so far (Beckett, Delgado, Lowell, Castillo, etc.) have made perfect sense to me since there is no reason to keep these guys here and the same can be said about Pierre. LoDuca HOWEVER, is the one and only guy that does make sense to keep not only because of what he will do at the plate, but mainly how he will handle our pitchers. At this point in the Marlins future, the only bright spot is pitching. Having a vet. catcher who can handle young pitchers is a must and LoDuca has already showed that. Makes perfect sense to me. And you can show me all the trade rumors you want, most of the time they don't add up. Yes LoDuca will bring a lot of attention from other teams, but if Pierre gets traded in the folowing week, which I expect, chances of LoDuca also going I believe will go down. You keep talking in terms of what the team "should" do. "should" plays no part in this. Of course the Marlins got the best offers they could for Delgado and Beckett....but do you really think that, at the end of the day, if the Mets had said "you're not getting Petit and that's final", the Marlins would have said "well, i guess we're keeping Delgado then!" Heck no. they needed to move Carlos, just like they need to move Lo Duca, and that's why neither will be Fish next year. But listen - you're entitled to hope that Lo Duca sticks around, more power to you.

GUYS.....EVERYONE IS LEAVING!!!!! Why keep around ONE expensive player if you're already dumping everyone other expensive player? it makes NO sense. So we keep Lo Duca, and then what - instead of winning 70 games, we win 73? how does that make any sense whatsoever? Lo Duca is gone. Pierre is gone. What more does this team have to do to get their point across - they are dumping anyone that earns any kind of salary, period. The End. Everyone needs to start moving on from these guys, and start getting pumped for the new blood. Why trade for young prospect pitchers if you can't develop them? Look, I am not saying that a guy like Petit, or Sanchez, or any other young pitcher for the Marlins ABSOLUTELY NEED LoDuca, but I can guarantee you that if LoDuca is behind the plate instead of a young catcher, our young pitchers will develop faster and be more efficient. I understand the Marlins are cutting costs, but you have to put money into your investments. Sure 6 mil per year is alot, but dont you think the Marlins, even with their financial woes, would be willing to give up 6 mil/ year if it mean that say 3 of the young pitchers we received or pitchers already in our farm system turn out to be like a Beckett, Burnett, Willis, or Penny? Its obvious this team is looking into the future, and I believe the best way for the Marlins to have a great future is to develop their young pitchers as best as possible, and that means keeping LoDuca. You're missing the point of this whole thing tho, Brandman. You're acting like this "fire sale" has an element of strategy to it. It's not like the Marlins are saying "well, we COULD keep Lo Duca, Lowell, Pierre, and Delgado, but we think that we'll be better in the long run if we trade them away for prospects." This whole thing is being done out of necessity. Want to know how despirate our situation is? To get rid of Lowell's contract (a guy only making roughly $2 million more than Lo Duca next year, by the way), we gave away Josh Beckett basically for free. These are not moves made out of strategy - these are moves made out of necessity. Lo Duca staying around just isn't an option. Neither is Pierre, or Gonzo, neither was Luis, Delgado, Mota, etc. Every contract we signed since 2003 (Delgado, Castillo, Lo Duca, Lowell) was only made possible due to the hope\expectation that a new stadium was coming, and with the new stadium would come new revenue that would allow them to pay off these contracts. Now that the stadium is not happening, none of those contracts make any sense, so they all gotta go.

GUYS.....EVERYONE IS LEAVING!!!!! Why keep around ONE expensive player if you're already dumping everyone other expensive player? it makes NO sense. So we keep Lo Duca, and then what - instead of winning 70 games, we win 73? how does that make any sense whatsoever? Lo Duca is gone. Pierre is gone. What more does this team have to do to get their point across - they are dumping anyone that earns any kind of salary, period. The End. Everyone needs to start moving on from these guys, and start getting pumped for the new blood.