repeatin04

Validity of the argument wins the support. Notice how few counter attack my facts. Worry more about the Marlins getting a new stadium and less about Pudge and misspelled words. Your arguments make ZILCH sense. You know the bottom line of what I say is true. In the grand scheme of things, Pudge is not important. Getting the stadium and raising season tickets is. If you were so convincing in your arguments and actually got more fans to attend games when Pudge was here, then the team would have been in better position to bring Pudge back. I understand why you are so picky on the word ZILCH, because you offer ZILCH to this message board in your responses. You are LAMEEEEEEEE

Make your choice, if it's your own nomination or not. Vote for what you think is the BEST one. 82 nominations were made. This will be open for 1 week and then the Top 25 will move on unless there are less than 25 with at least 1 vote. In that case, everything with a vote would move on obviously. I will break all ties via a coinflip if necessary. Slogan will be: "Thanks for the Memories Marlins. Enjoy playing in Vancouver (or fill in the blank city)." That slogan is based on the reality that this team will move if season tickets and support don't rise very soon.

thats obvious. i guess its like...at least our fanbase is growing.... its still a concern. Why must you be so damn negative all the time? It will take some time for the fan base to grow - winning a World Series, in some ways, is bad for this franchise. I thought getting to the playoffs would be better because winning the whole thing all of a sudden means we get a huge windfall. No. Fans started coming back when the Marlins started winning. If they keep winning, people will be back. Plain and simple. Some people are still on the fence with this team - remember, last time we won a WS we lost 118 games the following year. That is clearly not going to happen here, but people are a little gun shy. The other thing, which a$$holes like LeBAstard dont realize is, people just dont have all the money right now. Holidays just passed. People live beyond their means in Miami - in fact, that is a way of life down here. There just isnt a lot of money lying around. But in the coming weeks, people will start showing up and buying tix. FanFest has been targeted as a big selling point. And as people get their tax refunds back, that money could be used towards getting tix. I also think people are non-committal with season tix because of weather concerns and it is more flexible to get a 20 game deal. I am actually very encouraged if we have only 5,000 tix at this point - and they consist completely of 20 game deals. That is 20,000 fans instead of just 5,000. So LeRetard and others (ahem...Das) should try and take an objective look here. what a lame post this is. Holidays just passed. Give me a break. Winning it all was bad, give me a break. LeBatard is ABSOLUTELY correct. Quit making excuses. You either want the team or you don't. Excuses are for losers. Your post reflects the biggest loser attitude I've ever read. It's too hot to go. We don't have money. Well, if this market doesn't have the money, some other market will. Funny how other markets have more, many more, season ticket holders than our market. They just had the holidays, and they are buying tickets. What a lame argument. Get a reality check. Why do you even come into a message board? You clearly have no interest or knowledge of what it takes to be a big league market. Go support minor league baseball somewhere. LeBatard isn't correct often, but he nailed it on this argument. As a market, we are pathetic. Until people actually admit this problem, and address it, then nothing will be done. You say if we had reached the playoffs and lost, that would have built up the hunger, what a stupid comment. You honestly believe there would be more interest if we lost to the Cubs? Braindead is the one word to describe you.

Would metrorail from MLK to PPS really make much of a difference? To whoever thinks it is the best site: The average over the last couple of years is probably like 12,000. PPS is the best site, my buttocks. Any new stadium in Dade will save this franchise. People have gone to the Orange Bowl for decades. They will show up to see the Miami Marlins in greater numbers than ever. Then again, it is impossible not to. All the Broward and Palm Beach people continue to say they are a majority of the fan support. I ask, what fan support? With such an insignificant number of so called fans actually buying season tickets, Broward and Palm Beach lose their say in the matter. Less than 5,000 season tickets is a joke, and the excuses we make is a bigger joke. Show up, and hope there is a stadium in place by March 15, or get ready to say hello to the Memphis Marlins. This is fact. Well, maybe the Memphis part isn't. But the team will DEFINITELY leave.

Remember guys, that even if we don't sell enough season ticket packages, we still have to wait and see how the stadium is when opening day comes and how many individual game tickets we sell. If we keep winning, I think we should be fine. But like I said, we'll see. You can't judge yourself by Le Batard's numbers. Just because people don't buy 81 game plans doesn't mean they aren't season ticket holders, and Le Batard only counted 81 gamers. Basically, the two plans I was involved in buying were counted as one because they were two 41 gamers. We will be more than fine. LeBatard is ABSOLUTELY correct. Fact is there are less than 5,000 season ticket holders, that includes all season packages, and that is disgraceful. This market repeatedly lies to this team. Instead of you praying they bring Pudge back and making your lame arguments in defense of that, it's time to recognize the fact that March 15 is the most important deadline in the history of this franchise. If a stadium isn't done, then the team will move. It's time to quit making excuses and accept reality

Let it drop. There are no IFs. Pudge is gone. He made his own bed and we have Castro and Redmond. The NL East STILL better watch out.

there really is NO chance. Not slight or anything else. There is more chance that Andre Dawson will suit up for the Marlins and play left field than Pudge returning. The money isn't there. Pudge isn't going to sit out of spring training, praying. It's splitting hairs for no reason. The posts comparing this to Vlad are absolutely correct. Misinformation compounding itself and taking on its own life form. By RULE is there a chance? Well, BY RULE, if a player that fits the bill, like Pudge, waits til May 1 then he can "negotiate" with his former team. That's a very general topic. This has been twisted to Pudge saying he wants to return. To Pudge doing secret negotiations with Beinfest on the plane to Washington. Wonder how those secret talks went considering everyone's families were there and they all flew up on the team plane, and didn't spend a ton of time in DC. But I guess, Beinfest was zeroed in on spending all his time with Pudge, negotiating an eye wink deal while Pudge's wife was talking to Beinfest's wife. The theories about this are comical. Yet, I will be told there is a "slight chance" or a "possibility" that Pudge will be back. Like there was "no" chance the Marlins were going to win the World Series? Like there was "no" chance the Marlins were going to win the World Series? I've shot down this silly quote in earlier posts. To compare Pudge NOT returning to the Marlins winning the World Series is stupid and reveals a serious lack of intelligence to the facts. Last year, Pudge was ON the team. So were the other key players to win it all. That has ZERO, ZILTCH, NADA to do with this situation. Pudge is NOT in the budget. Pudge is NOT in the plans. Pudge will NOT wait til May 1 to sign, giving up spring training. The Marlins DO NOT have the money to sign Pudge in May unless Pudge signs for under 4 mil. Get over this pipe dream. It isn't apples and oranges when compared to winning it all. Foremost, getting the stadium done is MUCH more important than Pudge and his greed. I'm sure a simpleton like you will repeat your lame quote again. You seem to have ADD.

we'll know if there is a deal done on March 15. This is yet another premature story that notes the simple sad fact. Retaining the Marlins in South Florida is not a high priority. Support better pick up in ticket sales and passion for this team. Otherwise, the Memphis Marlins or some other place will be in the headlines. Then, the good folks in Dade can ask their politicians, how could you let baseball leave? This is a much more serious and important story than Pudge and his greed.

there really is NO chance. Not slight or anything else. There is more chance that Andre Dawson will suit up for the Marlins and play left field than Pudge returning. The money isn't there. Pudge isn't going to sit out of spring training, praying. It's splitting hairs for no reason. The posts comparing this to Vlad are absolutely correct. Misinformation compounding itself and taking on its own life form. By RULE is there a chance? Well, BY RULE, if a player that fits the bill, like Pudge, waits til May 1 then he can "negotiate" with his former team. That's a very general topic. This has been twisted to Pudge saying he wants to return. To Pudge doing secret negotiations with Beinfest on the plane to Washington. Wonder how those secret talks went considering everyone's families were there and they all flew up on the team plane, and didn't spend a ton of time in DC. But I guess, Beinfest was zeroed in on spending all his time with Pudge, negotiating an eye wink deal while Pudge's wife was talking to Beinfest's wife. The theories about this are comical. Yet, I will be told there is a "slight chance" or a "possibility" that Pudge will be back.

moving is a real serious threat if there isn't a stadium by March 15. You can't blame the team for packing up. Fans who think there is 16 mil hanging around for Pudge are mistaken. Pudge may think about waiting til May 1. The Marlins aren't banking on it. They have low season ticket sales even after winning it all. If there isn't a stadium by March 15, Pudge's May 1 deadline is totally moot. Yet another factual, accurate post by me that will be ridiculed by the flat earth society. Jayson Stark hasn't thought that one up yet in his "insider" reports. Pudge is not going to be a Marlin.

As fans, we need to let Pudge go, thank him for his help in the playoffs, but it was his choice to walk. Fans should stop being so gullible because Berardino made up a story that you all bit on. I think a previous poster had it right. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. What fans "need" to do is what each choses to do individually not collectively. Most all fans know what the situation is and realize he made a decision to look for employment elsewhere. Some harbor bad feelings, some don't. Some want him back at any price, others are more pragmatic. It has very little to do with Berrardino's ramblings, real or imagined. His piece simply brought some focus back on the guy. The chances of Pudge returning are slight. But for those fans who wish to hold onto the dream a while longer they have every right to do so. If you want to say "As a fan, I needed to let Pudge go..." no one i stopped you from doing so, but you don't have the authority to blanketedly determine what's correct for all fans. Your comments are valid and I happen to agree with your view of how this will play out but that said if someone wants to fantasize, let them. No one likes to have someone rain on their parade, especially with an "I have all the answers" attitude. The chances of Pudge returning are slight. But for those fans who wish to hold onto the dream a while longer they have every right to do so. If you want to say "As a fan, I needed to let Pudge go..." no one i stopped you from doing so, but you don't have the authority to blanketedly determine what's correct for all fans. Your comments are valid and I happen to agree with your view of how this will play out but that said if someone wants to fantasize, let them. No one likes to have someone rain on their parade, especially with an "I have all the answers" attitude. -- Thanks for confirming that I'm 100 percent correct on how the Pudge mess will settle. Of course I'd love to agree with you on not raining on anyone's parade, but what's fair is fair. I was called a retard and a fool for making my arguments, yet no one blasted those who choose to personally attack someone for stating what is correct. That's fair enough. It's not my responsibility to let the gullible fools believe in something that isn't so. Thanks for confirming and stating that I AM CORRECT.

what is best is to just put the wishful Pudge thinking away. This is tiresome and not going to happen. Pudge isn't going to give up spring training and any offer that is comparable to what the Marlins offered or more just to return in May. On March 15, the Marlins will know if they have a stadium in Miami or not. That's a much bigger issue, getting the stadium done. If that falls through, the team will likely move. So be focused on the big picture, putting the dollars where they matter and not on Pudge, who said he can get 40 mil elsewhere. Let's see if he is right about that.

thank you for the Sun Sentinel link. When is Rick Reed signing with the Marlins, as reported first in the Sun Sentinel? When is Brad Penny getting his severely damaged right shoulder operated on? I believe the Sun Sentinel's Berardino reported that Penny was damaged goods. Seems that was about a year ago, when is Penny getting that corrected? I hope soon because Penny may ONLY win 15 or more games with that wonded wing he is working with now. Oh by the way, when is Luis Castillo signing with the Cubs? The Sun Sentinel had that one too. I can go on and on and on and on. Thanks for the Sun Sentinel counting the payroll. Funny that it wasn't updated to not that Pavano (3.8 mil) and Penny (3.725 mil) were added. Then Beckett's 2 mil is going into the pot. Keep adding up your payroll, and it will be around 54-55 mil as the team projects. When in that range, the team will have some money to add a player or two as the year unfolds, like they did last year. Now, Mr. Budget Man, where is the 8 or so mil for Pudge?

As always, I provide the proof that you gullible fools need and request, yet while Beinfest says the money isn't there, you will believe it is. So read this story, the budget is noted near the bottom. The money for Pudge isn't there. But go ahead and believe it is. Maybe they can get Alex Fernandez to be the fifth starter til AJ comes back. Maybe we can bring back Chuck Carr, and Bryan Harvey. Harvey would solidify the bullpen. And we can bring back Gary Sheffield. There is a loophole, the Yankees can trade Shef to the Marlins, if he consents. Why not bring Shef back since he is about the best player the franchise ever had? Why stop with Pudge, bring back Kevin Brown too. http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/...s_fla&fext=.jsp

the way negotiations work, nothing will get done stadium wise until right at the March 15 deadline. Not hearing anything from the media isn't a bad thing because when can we believe any of these reporters anyway? Sun Sentinel writes around Dec. 22 in a screaming headline on the front of their paper that the stadium deal is dead. They say Mike Lowell will be gone because of his contract being tied to the stadium. Then two or three days later, screaming headlines about the Orange Bowl and land and a proposal. Sun Sentinel has already killed the stadium in one report, then they act like it's alive and kicking, but underplay that story. What is it? The answer is, negotiations are best when the media isn't twisting it. Dade will support the team fine. It's a myth that Broward and Palm Beach support it better. Fact is, if they supposedly do, these folks aren't buying season tickets. Face it, there isn't enough of a fan base in any of the three counties to act like they deserve the team over the other county. So if they go to Dade a few Broward people would be ticked. Well, get over it. I believe you people still will buy season tickets. If you don't and the team is good, you will be the ones missing out.

Beinfest repeatedly has said there isn't money. It was in the stories in the three newspapers and the web site when Mark Redman was traded. It was in the stories on Dec. 8 after Pudge didn't come back. Beinfest was quote as saying that they don't have this supposed money for Pudge lying around. Beinfest repeatedly has said the team isn't in the market for a "big ticket item" was his quote regarding high priced free agents. Marlins have spent to their budget. If you don't know these basic facts, you obviously aren't following this team very closely.

It's not entirely Pudge's decision. Unless Pudge is so desperate to play here for less than 5 mil or so he isn't coming back. Anyone who believes there is a chance Pudge will come back is stupid. This is a stupid topic, one made up by Berardino. It's not based on fact. It's base on fiction. It's based on a rule that allows talks to happen on May 1. So therefore, any free agent not offered arbitration and faces that May 1 deadline means Pudge wants to return to the Marlins. That is so off base. It's based on a Jack McKeon quote saying he'd love Pudge back. Of course Jack would, because Pudge is better than Castro/Redmond. Or at least we believe he is because Castro has never played enough to see how good he is. Money decisions are made by Samson/Loria/Beinfest. The team isn't going to put any extra money toward Pudge. They are trying to get this stadium done. Also, I'd rather than have the money to sign their players who want to be here, Beckett, Cabrera, etc., than waste my time or energy on a greedy player in decline and his agent who shrugged off the Marlins last offer and told the team that there was 4 years, 40 mil out there. Let's see how forthright Boras was. As fans, we need to let Pudge go, thank him for his help in the playoffs, but it was his choice to walk. Fans should stop being so gullible because Berardino made up a story that you all bit on.

Let's see who is correct? Pudge is not going to be a Marlin. No money for him. Berardino made this up, and go ahead and believe it. Why do you believe Pudge would wait til May 1 to sign for less money? Why do you believe the Marlins would even want him on May 1? Marlins can't negotiate with him. You act as if Pudge is so desperate to return to the Marlins he will sign for practically nothing? Let's see who wins this debate. When you lose it, you will be reminded of your defeat very often.

Very depressing to hear how pathetic Marlins fans are in terms of supporting the team. This market says if they win, they will support it. Well, they win the World Series, and still the team had dismal crowds in September. It wasn't until the playoffs that the bandwagon filled up. Now season tickets are not selling briskly. The fans here seem to want the team to leave. If the stadium falls through on March 15, I fear the Portland or Nashville Marlins will be in the future. You can't blame the team for leaving should the stadium fall through. LeBatard is correct. The fans here should be ashamed of themselves. We win two titles in seven years and still the franchise is treated like an unwanted stepchild. It's time to put up or shut up as a market.

Sounds like the ESPN insider is OFF since Beinfest repeatedly says that Pudge's money is NOT on the table, and NOT available. Team is at its payroll limit, adding a couple of players for depth being the only real moves remaining.

Pudge signing a minor league contract: LOL. Unbelievable comment. Yes, the Marlins will sign Pudge for a deal that will pay him less than 300K. Yes, Pudge sign a minor league deal to remain with the Marlins. Why not play for free Pudge.

Becoming more clear as I said from the beginning. Berardino made up a story, and the gullible lemmings fell in step. Pudge ain't going to be a Marlin. Maybe now, we can all move on and support the team and the players who WANT to play here.

where are the Pudge-backers now? Where are ALL of you who insited you were so intelligent and how anyone that told you the TRUTH that Berardino lured you gullible lemmings in. I was TOTALLY correct. Thank goodness, we are spared the Marlins making the STUPIDEST move in baseball history. Good riddance Pudge. Enjoy Detroit.

For all the gullible Pudge believers, I guess the Miami Herald is misguided too. Read more proof that the beloved Pudge is gone for good. Posted on Fri, Jan. 23, 2004 'Zero' chance of re-signing Pudge BY CLARK SPENCER cspencer@herald.com IVAN RODRIGUEZ The Marlins have all but lost the catcher, who is negotiating with Detroit. Seattle may also be interested. Ivan Rodriguez is expected to be on hand at the White House today when President Bush congratulates the Marlins for their World Series title. But, despite increased speculation, the chances of the unsigned catcher rejoining Florida remain remote. One member of the Marlins front office, who asked not to be identified, said the chance of Rodriguez returning to the team next season is ``zero.'' And there are indications that interest elsewhere might be heating up. The Detroit Free Press reported Thursday that the catcher's agent, Scott Boras, intends to submit a counter-proposal to the Tigers' initial four-year, $40 million offer -- one that was considerably more lucrative than the three-year, $24 million offer from the Marlins that Rodriguez turned down in December. The Mariners might enter the Rodriguez sweepstakes, as well, in the wake of reliever Kazuhiro Sasaki's announcement that he might return to Japan and forfeit the $9.5 million remaining on his contract, according to a Seattle Times report. ''I want the Tigers and their fans to know that despite what they may hear or read that we're serious about them,'' Boras told The Free Press. ``We'd like to get it done, which is why I'm giving them the proposal [today].'' While the Marlins are prohibited from resigning Rodriguez until May 1, they could agree to a minor-league deal and bring him up after the first of the month. But general manager Admin Beinfest on Thursday dismissed any scenarios in which Rodriguez would return before opening day in April. SPECULATION ''All these things are speculative because there's nothing we can do on our end,'' Beinfest said. ``We have no negotiating rights. We cannot talk to him. I think [the failure to negotiate a new contract to retain Rodriguez] was unfortunate because this was a great marriage. For all the reasons except money, Pudge should be a Marlin.'' The low-budget Marlins are committed to a 2004 payroll of about $50 million. While Beinfest said the team has extended offers to several free agents, the figures being discussed are for less than $1 million. The Tigers, on the other hand, are spending extra to reverse the team's flagging fortunes. The Tigers lost 119 games last season and finished with baseball's worst record. Rodriguez isn't the only former Marlin expected to be on the plane to the nation's capital. Derrek Lee and Andy Fox also are scheduled to make the trip. CORDERO INTERESTED A representative for free agent outfielder/first baseman Wil Cordero hopes to interest the world champion Marlins in his client but said the talks remain no more than ``preliminary discussions.'' ''Florida is a team that we had thought early on made sense for Wil,'' agent Jeff Moorad said Thursday. Cordero, a former All-Star, hit .278 with 16 homers and 71 RBI for Montreal last season, when he earned $600,000. Moorad said he will continue to talk to other teams while gauging the Marlins' interest. Cordero and his agent later visited with Marlins officials at Pro Player Stadium. Herald sportswriter Kevin Baxter contributed to this report.

For all the gullible believers in Berardino's nonsense, his OWN paper a day after his fabricated story, writes that bringing Pudge back is "remote." Check out Friday's Sun Sentinel. Juan Rodriguez writes: "The Marlins would only be interested if the facilitating team signed Rodriguez for a reasonable price. Don't look for the Marlins to pursue Rodriguez if he signs for $40 million." I'm laughing so hard at all of you who were dooped by Berardino.