Posted on Mon, Jan. 26, 2004?

 

DOWNTOWN STADIUM

Marlins told: No land is your land

Real estate industry experts say the Marlins would have a tough time finding a site for a stadium in downtown Miami.

BY KARL ROSS

kross@herald.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the Marlins are going to play ball at a new stadium, it's hard to see how it could be in downtown Miami, the team's preferred location.

 

Leading real estate brokers and local officials say potential sites have been snapped up by developers or are no longer feasible, for political or economic reasons. The latter include Bicentennial Park and the Miami Arena property, both owned by the city of Miami.

 

The city has offered the team the Orange Bowl site, which is in Little Havana, to the west of the downtown neighborhood.

 

''The timing would have been a couple of years ago if they wanted to do something downtown,'' said Tere Blanca de Ulloa, managing director at Cushman & Wakefield's South Florida office. ``There are very limited options.''

 

Blanca said no single property owner controls 12 acres in downtown, the minimum lot size needed to accommodate a baseball stadium. ''You would have to do a very complicated assemblage,'' she said.

 

And time for that is running out, as the team has a March 15 deadline for completing a stadium financing package. Several top-tier brokers said they knew of no inquiries by the team regarding privately held land.

 

Marlins officials did not respond to requests for comment. They have said previously they could build a new stadium with a retractable roof for $325 million, but that does not include land costs.

 

A downtown location would help the team market luxury boxes to corporate clients, providing an important revenue stream. But real estate industry observers say the Marlins' new ownership may have simply arrived too late to field a team there, World Series crown and all.

 

''It's spoken for,'' said Edie Laquer of Laquer Corp. Reality Group. ``There were times in the 1980s when we were one of the few major cities that could boast acres of land in the downtown urban sprawl. But those days are gone.''

 

PARCELS BROKERED

 

In the past year, Laquer brokered two deals on large parcels in the neighborhood.

 

One involved the tract along the Miami River that former team owner John Henry was eyeing before his stadium bid imploded in 2001. Those 12-plus acres sold to Epoch Corp. last November for $30.5 million, Laquer said.

 

The other sale comprised 56 acres formerly owned by Florida East Coast Industries, sold for $34.5 million to New York-based partnership that includes the one-time owners of the World Trade Center, she said.

 

That property, known as the FEC Buena Vista property, jutted as far south as Northwest 29th Street and is lined by Northeast 2nd and North Miami avenues.

 

Both properties are slated for mixed-use commercial and residential development. Another site that was considered in 2001, the so-called Arena West site near the Miami Arena, is also being developed.

 

County Manager George Burgess said he encouraged Henry to consider the FEC parcel but couldn't get him to bite. ''We suggested he look at that site and he didn't, which I think that was a monumental mistake,'' Burgess said.

 

Burgess said Henry missed opportunities by ''fixating'' on Bicentennial Park, with its 20 acres overlooking Biscayne Bay. That site is off the table, earmarked for the future construction of two museums, he said.

 

Burgess said talks with the team continue to focus on the Miami Arena and the Orange Bowl sites. City officials have proposed a complex at the Orange Bowl in which a new baseball stadium would be attached onto the existing football facility.

 

Team officials have been noncommittal about the city's concept, but they have not discarded the option.

 

`THE ONLY ONES'

 

''Obviously, this is not what they favor,'' City Manager Joe Arriola said during a recent interview on sports talk station WQAM-AM (560).``Having said that, we're the only ones with anything on the table.''

 

Burgess said the team's architects are evaluating the proposal and he expects to get feedback over the next week to 10 days.

 

A stadium at the Miami Arena site could save $1 million a year in tourism tax dollars presently being put into the money-losing facility. Those revenues could yield $30 million in bond proceeds.

 

But city officials say it could cost triple that amount to demolish the arena and buy as many as 24 surrounding parcels, needed to accommodate a stadium.

 

Janet Lopez, the city's communications director, called the arena site ''fiscally prohibitive'' during a telephone interview Friday.

 

''For us the only feasible, logical and fiscally prudent location is the Orange Bowl,'' Lopez said.

 

``We have to do something that works for all residents, not just the Florida Marlins.''

 

Dont Know if this has been posted but I dont see it anywhere on the boards. So here you go.

 

Article

we'll know if there is a deal done on March 15. This is yet another premature story that notes the simple sad fact. Retaining the Marlins in South Florida is not a high priority. Support better pick up in ticket sales and passion for this team. Otherwise, the Memphis Marlins or some other place will be in the headlines. Then, the good folks in Dade can ask their politicians, how could you let baseball leave? This is a much more serious and important story than Pudge and his greed.

I still don't understand how the Marlins want a stadium in Downtown Miami when there's hardly any room left.

because in the majority of metropolises the downtown area is the most centrally located area of the city....

 

 

this will bring in people from all over hte metro area as they will all be farily close to the stadium....

 

 

also in most metropolitan areas, the downtown area has the best traffic infastructure in place....

 

 

most downtowns in metro areas are already centers of business and commerce....professional sports teams want to be able to tap into this as much as possible....

 

 

largely....it provides an incentive to cities to revitalize a previously downtrodden downtown which exists in a number of cities throughout american cities due to changing circumstances and people moving to the suburbs....and downtown areas falling by the wayside in terms of crime rates, high numbers of homeless and buildings not being fully maintained. its seen throughout america.

 

 

will a stadium fix this? this was one of the biggest selling points for Jacobs Field and Camden Yards if i recall....how much success they have had as result...I am not sure......but I am sure the stats do exist.

Yes, but I am saying, there's no room. :confused

Das, take a look at a map of South Florida since you probably haven't been here. Look where PPS is. Look where Downtown Miami is and the OB as well. Then look where Palm Beach and Broward are.

 

No matter where you put it, someone will complain. Might as well throw a dart and hope the land is available.

I go to school in Downtown and the other day, as I was riding the Metro Rail, I was looking over at the city and I was thinking, "Where the hell were they thinking to build this thing?" The Miami Arena is way too small. There's hardly any parking available (yes, there's the Metro, I know). They're not going to build over BiCentennial Park or Bayfront Park. I just didn't see anything with so many buildings around.

thats why you just have to say screw it....

 

 

this is where I (the organization and the governmental entity) feel is best. People will come to see the games ultimately.

 

 

A state of the art stadium anywhere in the Miami metro area SHOULD draw in the fans...especially with a winning team.

 

 

 

and i was simply stating WHY the Marlins want to build in downtown. You would rather build a stadium in a downtown region as opposed to a suburbian region.

 

 

I am sure the Marlins feel the majority of hte dollars are in the Miami area, hence they want to tap into that market as much as possible...and can you really blame them>

Downtown has one reason behind it: Empowerment Zone Tax Break

 

But I think the architects on the Marlins side are working on the OB proposal to see if it could be made more elegant. Remember the Miami City Commission presented crude images, the architects would check the renderings and create actual blueprints and renderings.

Across PPS there is a huge lot and it is empty.

Opa Focka is opposed building any "new" stadium in their city...

Across PPS there is a huge lot and it is empty.

I think Huizenga might own that land too.

Wayne doesn't own the land! Robbie signed a 99 year lease with Miami-Dade County's PPS land trust for $1. It may appear to be owned by Wayne, but it is actually the county's trust fund.

I heard once they were also talking about a downtown Miami site located near what they called the "Omni complex".

 

I'm not sure where this is... maybe near the new Fine Arts Complex being built?

 

Also if the Fort Lauderdale baseball stadium idea ever gets any steam behind it, at least the land is already there & available.

Hey Cape fish,

 

Where did you see that on the PPS land. Do you have a link? Not that I don't believe you but I am just curious.

 

The site that I previously mentioned has been dropped because the traffic people said it was not possible to fix the traffic problems. There is one road in and out of this location. It is a shame, but I always said it had access problems. I am starting to think that the PPS site may be the most feasable.

I don't have a link, but both my parents worked for dade county and that was the case. I even remember this being the case, that the land is dade's. It was donated to dade for the dolphins stadium by a couple's estate.

 

here is some text:

 

flamarlins.com

Sept 13, 1990

Dade County Commission repeals an ordinance that had limited Joe Robbie Stadium to 18 events a year.

 

 

Joe Robbie Stadium, home of the Miami Dolphins, is renown for being almost completely privately.? Joe Robbie put up almost $12 million of his own money and borrowed as additional $90 million from three banks.

 

from http://www.buckeyeinstitute.org/perspect/1995_9.HTM

Robbie, however, had some public sector help: Two landowners donated several hundred acres to Dade County for a sports stadium, and the local government built a highway interchange to ease traffic problems in the area.? Nevertheless, the bult of the cost -- construction, maintenance and operation of the facility -- was financed privately.

Summary Details: Folio No.: 34-1134-011-0010

Property: 2269 NW 199 ST

Mailing Address: DADE COUNTY LESSOR

C/O ROBBIE STADIUM CORP

2269 NW 199 ST MIAMI FL

33056-2600

 

Property Information: Primary Zone: 6400 COMMERCIAL, MEDIUM INTENSITY

CLUC: 0015 ENTERTAINMENT

Beds/Baths: 0/0

Floors: 1

Living Units: 0

Adj Sq Footage: 739,307

Lot Size: 6,260,443 SQ FT

Year Built: 1987

Legal Description: DOLPHIN CENTER - STADIUM SITE PB 129-91 TR A LOT SIZE 143.72 AC F/A/U 30-1134-011-0010

 

Sale Information: Sale O/R:

Sale Date: 0/0

Sale Amount: $0

 

Assessment Information: See canceled folio: 30-1134-011-0010

 

Here is the property appraiser info for PPS from dade county. go to the website to see the photo of the stadium.

if the pro player stadium location isn't working now, i really don't have any faith at all in it for the future. We need a new location, that's the bottom line.

PPS will have metrorail or some rapid transit train connecting it to MLK Metrorial station by 2007...or at least that is the plan. So it would solve the Mass transit issue. Tri-Rail's Golden Glades station is there, just run buses from it to the stadium like for dolphins game for the Marlins.

i would say :"Can we wait til 2007?"

 

But that's an idiot argument considering that's when the new stadium would be built.

 

I have no problem with the Pro, they just gotta get a better lease with wayne... Time to go to Lease battle with Wayne.

i would say :"Can we wait til 2007?"

 

But that's an idiot argument considering that's when the new stadium would be built.

 

I have no problem with the Pro, they just gotta get a better lease with wayne... Time to go to Lease battle with Wayne.

*puts on fatigues and grabs law book.

latest on metro project to PPS

http://www.miamidade.gov/trafficrelief/upd..._rail_north.asp

2011?!

 

darn it

it won't be done in 2007, but probably started then. 2011 is the target done date. a express bus could be run from the mlk and golden glades stations to pps to make up for the time.

Would metrorail from MLK to PPS really make much of a difference?

 

To whoever thinks it is the best site: The average over the last couple of years is probably like 12,000. PPS is the best site, my buttocks.