repeatin04

How many of you (that can drive) have a Marlin's tag on your car? It's a great way to show the team and the community which team we support! If you don't, pick one up the next time your tags are up for renewal! I proudly sport one on my Toyota pick up. I don't see too many of them out there, though, so we need to rally behind them! GO FISH! Go Marlins. :hat The champ

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher. John Schuerholz seemed to make up a solid team the past 13 years. When asked what he thought the most important stats were in baseball, he said that he doesn't really look too much into stats, but that in a pitcher, he looks at wins, and at hitters, he looks at RBIs. When told that those were regarded by many as the two most overrated stats in baseball, he shrugged and said "well it seems to work pretty well for me." Stat geeks (billy beane, where are you?) piss me off. The beauty of the Marlins WS championship is how we did so many things different than Beane. One of Beane's main points is to draft pitchers who have pitched in college. Our WS MVP was a pitcher who we drafted straight out of Spring, TX at the ripe age of 18. excellent points. I have a question for the stat geeks. If wins are overrated, then state what is the criteria of a game. Let the players and managers know that WHIP or some other manufactured stat number is the telling figure and play the games that way. This way, if Dontrelle Willis is competing for Rookie of the year with Brandon Webb, Willis will forget the score of the Marlins game, and try to beat Webb at a certain category. Or for all the Billy Beane's out there, if OPS is the most important number, then measure the outcome of a particular game not by the final score but by the OPS of the players for that particular game. If one error results in three runs scoring and NO ONE on a team has an RBI or a double or a walk, then the other team with their 2 run homer can claim victory for having a higher OPS. Thanks for backing up my point. The game is about winning and losing. The scoreboard is all that dictates. WHIP and OPS are simply little gauges to factor in when deciding things, they are NOT the measure of players. :hat The champ It makes no logical sense whatsoever to focus on wins for pitchers and rbis for hitters. For a pitcher you can have a 5 era but win 20 games if you are lucky enough to have an unbelievable offense. Does this make you one of the best pitchers? NO. A pitcher has nothing to do with what your offense does. For hitters it makes perfect logic to focus on OBP and OPS. Think about it, if your whole team has a 400 OBP that means they get on base 40 percent of the time. Which will end up in more runs. RBIs is more based on opportunity and other players on your team to do good. If someone does not have someone in front of him that gets on base for him to drive him how will he get RBIs? You cant unless you get a homer and they wont hit over 100 home runs. Then let's revise the game and measure the final score based on what? FYI, most teams consider under a 4 ERA excellent for a starter. So, if you have a pitcher who is 20-8 with a 3.85 ERA, that guy was pretty darn good. Again, you don't give an alternative for deciding the bottom line. If you want OPS to be the factor, let's make it that. It's still about getting more runs than the other team. Sorry, but I will listen to the GM of the Braves over some fantasy geek. Sorry, but I think he knows more than you. :hat The champ Your not listening to a fantasy geek. You are listening to Billy Beane's philosophy. Sherholtz has over 100 million dollars worth of players each year. Billy Beane has half of that each year and still manage to have about the same record. Tell me why is that? And it is not luck because the A's have done it for the last 3 years even after the losses of many key players, such as jason giambi, johny damon, and izzy. Let's set the record straight. Braves have won 11 or is it 12 straight division titles? The Braves have WON a world series and been to several others. The Braves DO NOT have over 100 mil in payroll every year. They haven't reach 100 mil in any particular season. Billy Beane has NEVER won in the postseason. Granted he has less money to work with, but make no mistake, A's are in contention because of Zito, Mulder and Hudson. Not because they have great WHIP or any of those made up fantasy numbers. They are simply great pitchers. Zito has won 20 before. Look at the A's record in games Zito starts. So spare me on all this great Billy Beane garbage. There is no clear cut method for winning, but Billy Guiness has written a book and the blind think that is proof positive of how to play. Notice that the great Billy Beane says bunting is terrible strategy. Funny how Beinfest Ball, with the adoption of two guys who are basically leadoff hitters batting 1/2 in the order became a championship formula. Manufacturing runs, sacrifice bunting, players surrendering outs instead of playing for the 3 run homer was the blueprint to the Marlins' success. Marlins win it ALL that way. Again, if you think WHIP is more important than wins for a pitcher, give me the proper way to score the games. You can't do that, you only answer a question with a question. :hat The champ

I thought Mondesi was signed. shocking that you would be wrong in a post. Mondesi is still out there. Amazing how you missed it. :hat The champ WTF is with some spiteful jerks in this world? Go away chump, go piss off the guy who didn't know mclemore was signed. what team did Mondesi sign with again? Missed that news bright light. :hat The champ

Thanks. I just noticed beckett was only doing one event which is at a hospital and i was just wondering if it was something that was open to the public? hospital visits are not open to the public. Wait for Josh at fanfest on February 7. There he should be at the stadium like the rest of the guys. :hat The champ

I could be wrong but I thought I read that we never called Uggy once, not that he didnt return our calls You are wrong. The Marlins obviously were trying to measure whether if signing him was a possibility. You think this FO is that stupid to not know if a player is signable or not? Give me a break. Get your head out of the sand. Indiana. Tells is all. :hat The champ You aren't wrong Ramp, anyone who follows the Marlins know Uggie and his agent both said they never heard a word from the Fish. As usual it's the Chump :disguise2 that's wrong. Just like she's wrong about Billy Beane and I'm no fan of his. She's also wrong about Oliver/Redman in that when Redman was traded it was a foregone conclusion that Oliver would ultimately re-sign with the Rockies or perhaps sign with the Giants or Diamondbacks. Admin B., as terrific as he is never expected Oliver to be available when Big Red was traded, there was no plan to trade down by losing Red to sign both AJ and DO. It just worked out that way and now the Chump :disguise2 is trying to tie them all together with a pretty red bow. Here's the quote on ESPN from UU's agent - "We never spoke with the Marlins," Leible said. "Never got one call from them. Not to say, 'Thanks.' Not to say, 'Would you be interested in signing here for less money?' Nothing. It wasn't worth a call? I don't understand that." Being a meglomaniac and a narcissist this will be a hard pill for The Chump :disguise2 to swallow. Maybe we could offer her a glass of Jim Jones' grape kool-aid. hehehe Marlins front office clearly checked the chances of signing Urbina. Urbina wanted no part of returning because he wanted more than he made in '03. Anyone who thinks that the team didn't inquire about what it would take to get Ugie back is totally lost in the dark. Beinfest said Ugie never returned the Marlins calls and frankly the Marlins didn't pursue hard because they knew the moment Ugie didn't attend any of the parades, literally days after winning it all, and through talks with guys like Ozzie Guillen, that Ugie was a lost cause. So yes, as always, my facts are THE FACTS. By the way, what are the ODDS of Pudge signing with the Marlins now? Slight. 25%, 5%. AS I NOTED FIRST: ZERO. Don't let some busher fan who has lost EVERY debate on these boards try to influence you. CLEAR CUT WINNER AGAIN. :hat The champ.

I go to school in Indiana, Im not from there. OK, that's a bit better. The state is awful. The school isn't any bargain. Defending Bob Knight is all you need to know about Hoosiers. :hat The champ

hated it when vic left. loved it when vic left. a total piece of crap. made almanza look like cy young. :hat Glad to see someone with an ounce of sense and baseball knowledge. A strong case can be made that Vic was the most pathetic pitcher in Marlins' history. At least in his last year he was dreadful. Vic was batting practice. Loved it when Vic was gone. I wonder if any of these bright lights realized that the Marlins got Juan Pierre for Vic. I wonder if any of these bright lights know that he was owed more than a million dollars for 2003. That's why the Marlins moved him in that deal. Another great move by Beinfest, unloading a total waste. :hat The champ

I could be wrong but I thought I read that we never called Uggy once, not that he didnt return our calls You are wrong. The Marlins obviously were trying to measure whether if signing him was a possibility. You think this FO is that stupid to not know if a player is signable or not? Give me a break. Get your head out of the sand. Indiana. Tells is all. :hat The champ

I won't eat my words with Looper. Looper was very marginal. Benitez is clearly better. If your argument is Looper is better than Benitez, let's have it out. I'll show you all those wonderful stats you base your baseless arguments on in your face. Let's poll the board: Straight up, who would you rather have closing Benitez or Looper. Let's truly measure the intelligence of this room.? The champ Benitez is better than Looper, but not better than Urbina. And Benitez is the LAST man on earth you want on the mound when it truly counts. I would of rather had looper on striking Boone out (in game 4?) than Benitez giving up the game winning homer. OVerally Benitez is better. Arguments can be made he's better than Mariano Rivera in the regular season. however, Benitez blows it every time it counts. You'll see it. Big game, benitez in, you know he'll blow it. It is kind of scary, it defies almost all logic. I guess if you screw up only when it matters and are flawless otherwise, you look good on paper. that's the conclusion I have come to. There's a reason everyone wanted to get rid of him. So stats have value if they benefit your argument, but they are worthless drivel if they don't? If someone uses them to further your argument they are enlightened, if stats prove you wrong, which is easily done, they are statheads, geeks, or whatever etc. Good point.I responded to eating my words regarding Looper. Benitez is better than Looper. Benitez and Urbina are similar. Personally, I wouldn't have minded Ugie coming back. One little problem. Ugie had NO interest in returning. Ugie wanted a huge payday and I read an article around December 7 saying Ugie didn't return the Marlins' calls. Ugie is looking for more than 4 mil a year. Ugie is a bit Pudge like, not believing in taking a pay cut. Notice that no one has signed Ugie either. Stick to the topics. I use stats as a measure, like everyone else does. I just don't measure players entirely on stats. I laugh at the geek argument that WHIP is more telling than Wins for pitchers. I laugh at the Billy Beane philosphy being shot down by Beinfest and McKeon's managing. I look at lots of factors, stats, heart, chemistry with a team, guts. Example of guts: Carl Milano. Example of a choker: Mark Redman. Example of a winner: Dontrelle Willis. Example of a whiner: Brandon Webb. I'd take Ugie over Benitez, but it's not a landslide either way. Cost is a factor with the Marlins. Chalk up another win for :hat The champ

I thought Mondesi was signed. shocking that you would be wrong in a post. Mondesi is still out there. Amazing how you missed it. :hat The champ

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher. John Schuerholz seemed to make up a solid team the past 13 years. When asked what he thought the most important stats were in baseball, he said that he doesn't really look too much into stats, but that in a pitcher, he looks at wins, and at hitters, he looks at RBIs. When told that those were regarded by many as the two most overrated stats in baseball, he shrugged and said "well it seems to work pretty well for me." Stat geeks (billy beane, where are you?) piss me off. The beauty of the Marlins WS championship is how we did so many things different than Beane. One of Beane's main points is to draft pitchers who have pitched in college. Our WS MVP was a pitcher who we drafted straight out of Spring, TX at the ripe age of 18. excellent points. I have a question for the stat geeks. If wins are overrated, then state what is the criteria of a game. Let the players and managers know that WHIP or some other manufactured stat number is the telling figure and play the games that way. This way, if Dontrelle Willis is competing for Rookie of the year with Brandon Webb, Willis will forget the score of the Marlins game, and try to beat Webb at a certain category. Or for all the Billy Beane's out there, if OPS is the most important number, then measure the outcome of a particular game not by the final score but by the OPS of the players for that particular game. If one error results in three runs scoring and NO ONE on a team has an RBI or a double or a walk, then the other team with their 2 run homer can claim victory for having a higher OPS. Thanks for backing up my point. The game is about winning and losing. The scoreboard is all that dictates. WHIP and OPS are simply little gauges to factor in when deciding things, they are NOT the measure of players. :hat The champ It makes no logical sense whatsoever to focus on wins for pitchers and rbis for hitters. For a pitcher you can have a 5 era but win 20 games if you are lucky enough to have an unbelievable offense. Does this make you one of the best pitchers? NO. A pitcher has nothing to do with what your offense does. For hitters it makes perfect logic to focus on OBP and OPS. Think about it, if your whole team has a 400 OBP that means they get on base 40 percent of the time. Which will end up in more runs. RBIs is more based on opportunity and other players on your team to do good. If someone does not have someone in front of him that gets on base for him to drive him how will he get RBIs? You cant unless you get a homer and they wont hit over 100 home runs. Then let's revise the game and measure the final score based on what? FYI, most teams consider under a 4 ERA excellent for a starter. So, if you have a pitcher who is 20-8 with a 3.85 ERA, that guy was pretty darn good. Again, you don't give an alternative for deciding the bottom line. If you want OPS to be the factor, let's make it that. It's still about getting more runs than the other team. Sorry, but I will listen to the GM of the Braves over some fantasy geek. Sorry, but I think he knows more than you. :hat The champ

He is, after all, going out with Alyssa Milano. Yeah, so your last name changes...right Pavano had a better postseason, yes, but that's it. I would bet money Redman has a better season next year than Pavano when adjusted for ballpark effects. I never said it does, but the guy has a justification for calling him Carl Milano if he feels compelled enough. Hell I call one of my friends by his girlfriend's name because he's so damn whipped over her. exactly. Tell me that Pav has the upper hand in this relationship? Alyssa is more popular, makes much more $$$ and is the bigger star. It's Carl Milano til proven otherwise. :hat The champ

He is, after all, going out with Alyssa Milano. Yeah, so your last name changes...right Pavano had a better postseason, yes, but that's it. I would bet money Redman has a better season next year than Pavano when adjusted for ballpark effects. why the love affair with a soft tosser like Redman? The Marlins front office, as I accurately and succinctly stated numerous times, decided on Milano over Redman. They made that call based on talent because the money was about the same. So you know more than the FO? You know more than a FO that won a World Series with a 53 mil payroll that beat a team with a 160-plus mil payroll? Did you NOT watch the second half of the season, the final month and see how Carl Milano was clearly better than Redman? Did you watch the second game of the World Series? Did you see Redman give up a 3 run HR to Matsui on a 3 and 0 pitch? Did you see Redman in game 7 of the NLCS give up a HR to Kerry Wood, blowing a 3-zip lead. Then Red gives up a 2 run HR to Alou. I guess your television was on the blink. Did you see Carl Milano stick it to the Yankees in game 4 in Roger Clemens' so called last game? Did you see Milano save the division series at San Francisco, getting out of a bases loaded mess left by Helling when the Giants were about to blow the game open and take a 2-zip lead in games. Milano steps in, gets Alfonzo and Santiago to pop out. CLUTCH. So go ahead and use meaningless stats from 2000 when Milano was hurt and say Red is better. You are in the dark on this one. :hat The champ

benitez is a great fantasy pitcher...he just lacks clutch/intangibles.? believe me. And Looper had the right stuff? Hey, unless we have Gagne or Smoltz or Rivera, the next level includes guys like Benitez. He will be fine. :hat The champ You'll eat those words. He was on 3 teams last year. his statisitcs were fine with them...but they ALL couldn't wait to get rid of him! There's a reason to it dude. Benitez is the anti-clutch. Benitez is the baseball statician's worst nightmare because he defies statistics. Its almost ridiculous. So have fun with benitez, you're going to wish you resigned Urbina. going from looper to benitez is a big step......believe me.....its that you're used to watching Mariano but its an incredible improvement for us IMO..looper had good stuff but didnt have a closer mentality. I'm not happy my mets have looper, we should of signed urbina. However, I watched Benitez almost as much as I watched Rivera (okay, half as much, I watch a lot of mets games a year). Benitez is sick, he defies statistics. That's why we hate him. Benitez will be a statistical improvement, but when you TRULY need him, he will fail. You'll be calling for his head come July. He'll probably be traded to some other team that has not yet soured on this wonder man. Looper might not have a closer's mentality, but Benitez has proven to every fan in NY, Seattle, and Baltimore he lacks the proper mentality to win and its truly intangible...and this is coming from me.I won't eat my words with Looper. Looper was very marginal. Benitez is clearly better. If your argument is Looper is better than Benitez, let's have it out. I'll show you all those wonderful stats you base your baseless arguments on in your face. Let's poll the board: Straight up, who would you rather have closing Benitez or Looper. Let's truly measure the intelligence of this room. :hat The champ

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher. John Schuerholz seemed to make up a solid team the past 13 years. When asked what he thought the most important stats were in baseball, he said that he doesn't really look too much into stats, but that in a pitcher, he looks at wins, and at hitters, he looks at RBIs. When told that those were regarded by many as the two most overrated stats in baseball, he shrugged and said "well it seems to work pretty well for me." Stat geeks (billy beane, where are you?) piss me off. The beauty of the Marlins WS championship is how we did so many things different than Beane. One of Beane's main points is to draft pitchers who have pitched in college. Our WS MVP was a pitcher who we drafted straight out of Spring, TX at the ripe age of 18. excellent points. I have a question for the stat geeks. If wins are overrated, then state what is the criteria of a game. Let the players and managers know that WHIP or some other manufactured stat number is the telling figure and play the games that way. This way, if Dontrelle Willis is competing for Rookie of the year with Brandon Webb, Willis will forget the score of the Marlins game, and try to beat Webb at a certain category. Or for all the Billy Beane's out there, if OPS is the most important number, then measure the outcome of a particular game not by the final score but by the OPS of the players for that particular game. If one error results in three runs scoring and NO ONE on a team has an RBI or a double or a walk, then the other team with their 2 run homer can claim victory for having a higher OPS. Thanks for backing up my point. The game is about winning and losing. The scoreboard is all that dictates. WHIP and OPS are simply little gauges to factor in when deciding things, they are NOT the measure of players. :hat The champ

Wow, I am psyched. My four favorite Marlins (Lowell, Pierre, Willis, Redmond) are going to be two miles from my house on Thursday. Im impressed with how much area they are covering. Don't forget, Blaine Neal will be a few blocks away too. :hat The champ

So far, this offseason has been quiet for the Marlins. Last year, by this time, we got Pudge, Redman, Hollandsworth, etc. This year, we re-signed players (which was important), got Oliver, and traded away key players as well as losing Urbina and Pudge to free agency. I have to admit, last year I was a little more excited. However, I am looking forward to defending our title. How would you grade our offseson so far? A+ if we sign Cordero. Solid A if we don't. Best rotation in baseball. :hat The champ

from many things ive read our a-gon is the most underrated fielder in the game...and called by many (underground sources) the most valuable IF in the game. Alex Gonzalez is as good as it gets defensively. Simply a marvelous fielder. :hat The champ

okay, that's a fair and balanced assessment. however, pavano is mr. injury himself. If you worry about kevin brown on the yankees, you have to worry about pavano, who's short career is full of injury. And to the other guy: I don't want to be mean to the guy, but he has said "milano" in 5 posts and has not admitted he was wrong. He is, after all, going out with Alyssa Milano. thanks for actually knowing the facts inquiring minds what to know. Yes Carl Milano is living a Charmed life right now. And yes, Carl Milano is showing great improvements. Big year expected for Milano. :hat The champ

okay, that's a fair and balanced assessment. however, pavano is mr. injury himself. If you worry about kevin brown on the yankees, you have to worry about pavano, who's short career is full of injury. And to the other guy: I don't want to be mean to the guy, but he has said "milano" in 5 posts and has not admitted he was wrong. Carl Milano was a postseason hero. Mark Redman was a postseason goat. Red wears down. Milano keeps improving. Why the love affair with Red? He is gone and won't be missed. :hat The champ

No way The Marlins, would get it that soon after getting a new stadium because their are plenty of new stadiums out there that have been around longer waiting for their chance, their just getting to Detroit, their's no way they'll pass up Pac Bell and a few others sure there is a way Marlins can get a quickie All-Star game. League could use it as incentive to get the new stadium built. Also, the league owes Miami an All Star game after pulling out of the Pro a few years ago. This is very possible. Excellent topic. :hat The champ

benitez is a great fantasy pitcher...he just lacks clutch/intangibles. believe me. And Looper had the right stuff? Hey, unless we have Gagne or Smoltz or Rivera, the next level includes guys like Benitez. He will be fine. :hat The champ

Well I just cant argue with someone who thinks wins is the best way to describe a pitcher...Im way past that archaic tool. You measure good pitching by WHIP or other meaningless stats. Until they stop keeping score, wins are the answer. Guys like Jack Morris got the job done, won the games. Answer this, Mr. StatMan, why is a big deal made about 20 game winners and 300 game winners if WHIP is your measure. I've very articularly stated that circumstances of the games dictate how the game is played. For instance, if a pitcher has a two or more run lead in the middle innings, defenses may concede a run. I know this is complicated for a fantasy stat geek, but it's reality. I saw Willis give up a homer to Eduardo Perez in a game at St. Louis. D Train was winning the game 7-2 in the seventh or eighth. He fell behind Perez 3 balls 0 strikes and Pujols is on deck. What does D Train do, he telegraphs a fastball for a strike, Perez clocks it. D Train then strikes out Pujols to get out of the inning. That was one earned run that was decided because D Train had a cushion and didn't want to walk Perez to get to Pujols. Each game has its own dynamics. ERA can be misleading when a starter is cruising for seven innings, and he tires and walks three in the eighth. Suddenly those three runs score when a reliever is in. Now a pitcher that pitched great for seven innings has his ERA inflate a bit because of a tired eighth, yet he still wins the game. So give me a break with your WHIP and fantasy geek crap. You lose this argument in a landslide. :hat The champ

link FLORIDA: Carl Pavano, RHP. Josh Beckett may have been the World Series star and Ugueth Urbina may have solidified the bullpen, but don't underestimate the impact made by Pavano, who won 12 games and was healthy enough -- at last -- to lead the staff in innings pitched. Who would have thought that when Pavano was dealt for Pedro Martinez that he -- and not Martinez -- would get to the World Series first. awesome. More confirmation of what I've repeatedly said about Carl Milano. More confirmation Milano is better than Redman. :hat The champ

The fact is that you are totally wrong. I cannot site any more evidence. Because you don't have ANY shred of evidence. Milano is better. Look, both Carl Milano and Red were 5th year arb eligible. Both were going to make about 3.8 mil. The Marlins made their call, they traded Red, kept Milano. Milano's postseason and second half performances swayed them. Milano has a higher upside, throws harder. Is clearly better. You lose this debate in a blowout. This is a ridiculous mismatch of facts. Accept defeat graciously. :hat The champ