Courtesy of Rotoworld

 

Marlins signed LHP Darren Oliver, who had been with the Rockies, to a one-year, $750,000 contract. Oliver can make an extra $250,000 in incentives. The 33-year-old left-hander isn't likely to pitch as well as he did for Colorado last season, but he still might have a little fantasy value during April. If you're short a pitcher at the end of your NL-only league draft, he wouldn't be a bad $1 pick. Just be sure to dump him once A.J. Burnett returns. Thoughts and suggestions before ST what else should we do?

overpaid.

I agree he only made 350,000 last season , although he is a veteran and I'd rather have him be the fifth starter until AJ gets back rather than Tereja and Oliver in the bullpen will be ok I think.

anyone with an era of 5 does not deserve to double their pay.

I was wrong in my earlier post, this is a bad deal for that money, 500k at most is what he should be getting.

 

I know Beinfest made magic last year with his pickups but Oliver is not even Rick Helling.

I look at the wins, yes his era is BAD but give him a break. He's a vet and he will be ok. I'd rather have him then Michael tejera

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

beinfest must see something we don't

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

The comment about wins and losses being overrated is totally silly and is fodder for excuse makers. So rather than recognize 20 game winners or 300 game winners, we should be interested in fantasy geek stats like the WHIP. The game is about winning and losing. All other numbers are lame. Jack McKeon has said he would rather have a 15 game winner with a 5 ERA than a 15 game loser with a 2.00 ERA. I go with Jack on this over some fantasy geek.

I think Beinfest did this for 2 reasons:

 

1. Obviously, he's better than Tejera and he's going to be our 5th starter baring injury or an amazing showing by Justin Wayne

 

2. Left handed insurance for Dontrelle, because as much as I love the guy, you have to be concerned that he did get lit up during the second half of the year, and just in case he needs some honing in the minors, we've got a lefty ready...

I think Beinfest did this for 2 reasons:

 

1. Obviously, he's better than Tejera and he's going to be our 5th starter baring injury or an amazing showing by Justin Wayne

 

2. Left handed insurance for Dontrelle, because as much as I love the guy, you have to be concerned that he did get lit up during the second half of the year, and just in case he needs some honing in the minors, we've got a lefty ready...

Dontrelle is not going to be refined in the minors. If you check the numbers, Dontrelle was strong in September, while Brandon Webb got lit up in September. Look at the numbers, they don't lie. Dontrelle is fine. Oliver is a good pickup because he is an improvement over Tejera. To hear some of you people babble that this is the end of the world, get real. The guy won 13 games last year for the Rockies. He is the FIFTH starter. AJ will be back and this guy provides insurace when another starter goes down. They aren't breaking the bank on him. Although this is another 750 K that is more proof Pudge isn't coming back.

Wins dont mean too much when your a pitcher because if you dont get run support theres no way you can win. I'm sure Oliver had great run support. As a 5th starter he isnt bad but I would have liked to seen Tejera get a chance.

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

The comment about wins and losses being overrated is totally silly and is fodder for excuse makers. So rather than recognize 20 game winners or 300 game winners, we should be interested in fantasy geek stats like the WHIP. The game is about winning and losing. All other numbers are lame. Jack McKeon has said he would rather have a 15 game winner with a 5 ERA than a 15 game loser with a 2.00 ERA. I go with Jack on this over some fantasy geek. you are a fool.

 

 

 

a pitcher winning 13 games with an ERA of 5 does so only because of superior run support.

 

 

a pitching winning 6 games with an ERA in the low 3's does this because his team gives him squat for run support more often than not.

 

 

 

you are a fool and continue to show your foolish ways with each post you make.

 

 

 

yes the game is about winning and losing.

 

 

how many 20 game winners are there with an ERA of 5.

 

 

furthermore how many 300 game winners have an ERA of 5...let alone in the mid to upper 4s.

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

The comment about wins and losses being overrated is totally silly and is fodder for excuse makers. So rather than recognize 20 game winners or 300 game winners, we should be interested in fantasy geek stats like the WHIP. The game is about winning and losing. All other numbers are lame. Jack McKeon has said he would rather have a 15 game winner with a 5 ERA than a 15 game loser with a 2.00 ERA. I go with Jack on this over some fantasy geek. you're kidding right?

 

I'd take the Dodgers staff last year, but they didn't exactly light up the W column, but that is no fault of the pitcher.

 

The whole "finding a way to win" is BS regarding a pitcher. Give me a guy who has a WHIP of around 1.5 and an ERA of 2 and he's going to be fine no matter what...

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

The comment about wins and losses being overrated is totally silly and is fodder for excuse makers. So rather than recognize 20 game winners or 300 game winners, we should be interested in fantasy geek stats like the WHIP. The game is about winning and losing. All other numbers are lame. Jack McKeon has said he would rather have a 15 game winner with a 5 ERA than a 15 game loser with a 2.00 ERA. I go with Jack on this over some fantasy geek. you are a fool.

 

 

 

a pitcher winning 13 games with an ERA of 5 does so only because of superior run support.

 

 

a pitching winning 6 games with an ERA in the low 3's does this because his team gives him squat for run support more often than not.

 

 

 

you are a fool and continue to show your foolish ways with each post you make.

 

 

 

yes the game is about winning and losing.

 

 

how many 20 game winners are there with an ERA of 5.

 

 

furthermore how many 300 game winners have an ERA of 5...let alone in the mid to upper 4s. sorry, you lose this argument. The guy has 83 or so career wins and has better than a .500 record. Give me his record over some loser with a 4.00 ERA and a 75-83 record. The game is about wins and losses, not WHIP. Sorry to break that to you. That is simply the facts. Superior run support. Every game is determined by superior run support. If a game is 1-0, the team with 1 had superior run support. ERA is so overrated. It's about winning. Sorry. You contradict yourself on 300 game winners, you say that wins are not important. Obviously, they are because we chart wins and 20 game winners can have high ERAs, many do. But give me Roy Halladay and his 20-plus wins over Pedro and his 12 or so wins from last year. That's the bottom line. WINNING.

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

The comment about wins and losses being overrated is totally silly and is fodder for excuse makers. So rather than recognize 20 game winners or 300 game winners, we should be interested in fantasy geek stats like the WHIP. The game is about winning and losing. All other numbers are lame. Jack McKeon has said he would rather have a 15 game winner with a 5 ERA than a 15 game loser with a 2.00 ERA. I go with Jack on this over some fantasy geek. you are a fool.

 

 

 

a pitcher winning 13 games with an ERA of 5 does so only because of superior run support.

 

 

a pitching winning 6 games with an ERA in the low 3's does this because his team gives him squat for run support more often than not.

 

 

 

you are a fool and continue to show your foolish ways with each post you make.

 

 

 

yes the game is about winning and losing.

 

 

how many 20 game winners are there with an ERA of 5.

 

 

furthermore how many 300 game winners have an ERA of 5...let alone in the mid to upper 4s. sorry, you lose this argument. The guy has 83 or so career wins and has better than a .500 record. Give me his record over some loser with a 4.00 ERA and a 75-83 record. The game is about wins and losses, not WHIP. Sorry to break that to you. That is simply the facts. Superior run support. Every game is determined by superior run support. If a game is 1-0, the team with 1 had superior run support. ERA is so overrated. It's about winning. Sorry. You contradict yourself on 300 game winners, you say that wins are not important. Obviously, they are because we chart wins and 20 game winners can have high ERAs, many do. But give me Roy Halladay and his 20-plus wins over Pedro and his 12 or so wins from last year. That's the bottom line. WINNING. But if you're talking over the long-term, aren't guys like Halladay (lots of wins, high ERA) less consistent than guys like Pedro?

If you have the Tigers offense, you can be Pedro and you'll lose games your supposed to win. You'll just be losing them 1-0 and 2-1. The pitchers don't make up for it with the bat most of the time, so they have to rely on the offense they get. If they could bat well, then yes, W-L would be a reliable stat because they would be partly controlloing their own fate on both sides of the plate. But pitchers, even though most of them used to be able to hit well, forget how to do it in the minors instead of keeping them with it, and they have to rely on the offense their team supplies. If your team gets dominated by the other pitcher, that is no fault of yours. You are doing your job, they aren't doing there. You'll get an L when you didn't deserve one.

 

I'm not pleased with Oliver but oh well maybe he'll pan out. You never do know with these things.

no i am simply asking you how many pitchers with 300 wins have an ERA in teh 4 to 4.50 ERAs...let alone 5.

 

 

Halladay also had a pretty decent ERA last year from what I recall. 3.25

I like the signing....

 

but wins/losses are overrated

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

The comment about wins and losses being overrated is totally silly and is fodder for excuse makers. So rather than recognize 20 game winners or 300 game winners, we should be interested in fantasy geek stats like the WHIP. The game is about winning and losing. All other numbers are lame. Jack McKeon has said he would rather have a 15 game winner with a 5 ERA than a 15 game loser with a 2.00 ERA. I go with Jack on this over some fantasy geek. you are a fool.

 

 

 

a pitcher winning 13 games with an ERA of 5 does so only because of superior run support.

 

 

a pitching winning 6 games with an ERA in the low 3's does this because his team gives him squat for run support more often than not.

 

 

 

you are a fool and continue to show your foolish ways with each post you make.

 

 

 

yes the game is about winning and losing.

 

 

how many 20 game winners are there with an ERA of 5.

 

 

furthermore how many 300 game winners have an ERA of 5...let alone in the mid to upper 4s. sorry, you lose this argument. The guy has 83 or so career wins and has better than a .500 record. Give me his record over some loser with a 4.00 ERA and a 75-83 record. The game is about wins and losses, not WHIP. Sorry to break that to you. That is simply the facts. Superior run support. Every game is determined by superior run support. If a game is 1-0, the team with 1 had superior run support. ERA is so overrated. It's about winning. Sorry. You contradict yourself on 300 game winners, you say that wins are not important. Obviously, they are because we chart wins and 20 game winners can have high ERAs, many do. But give me Roy Halladay and his 20-plus wins over Pedro and his 12 or so wins from last year. That's the bottom line. WINNING. And wasn't Pedro out for a couple weeks or something like that? Your right about 20 games winners having high ERAs, just look out Russ Ortiz. If he had the Dodgers offense eh would've been somewhere like 10-8. Oh yeah, if you go by Coors Field pitching stats you are a fool. Thats the one ballpark you can go to and say winning isn't and indicator of a pitcher. Ignorant fool...

 

 

Otherwise I like this signing and who knows what high humidity and a pitchers ballpark can do to him. I see him having a strong April and being a consistent bullpen lefty.

we'll see how he pans out. Rick helling wasn't supposed to do much last year either and he more than held his own. Maybe a change of scenery and a new, young team will give the guy some juice, you never know.

I like the signing....

 

but wins/losses are overrated

Ramp, if you are saying W/L are overrated, since your statements about Pudge coming back have been SOOOOO off base and WRONG, I am more convinced than ever that W/L are NOT overrated. Yes it is a good signing. I also argued, to deaf ears in this place, that Oliver is the FIFTH starter. He is an UPGRADE over Tejera. The guy can't totally be a dolt to have 80 something career wins and a plus .500 record. He is a safety valve til AJ returns. Anyone who frowns on this is very misguided.

wins/losses = one of the most overrated stats for a pitcher.

The comment about wins and losses being overrated is totally silly and is fodder for excuse makers. So rather than recognize 20 game winners or 300 game winners, we should be interested in fantasy geek stats like the WHIP. The game is about winning and losing. All other numbers are lame. Jack McKeon has said he would rather have a 15 game winner with a 5 ERA than a 15 game loser with a 2.00 ERA. I go with Jack on this over some fantasy geek. you are a fool.

 

 

 

a pitcher winning 13 games with an ERA of 5 does so only because of superior run support.

 

 

a pitching winning 6 games with an ERA in the low 3's does this because his team gives him squat for run support more often than not.

 

 

 

you are a fool and continue to show your foolish ways with each post you make.

 

 

 

yes the game is about winning and losing.

 

 

how many 20 game winners are there with an ERA of 5.

 

 

furthermore how many 300 game winners have an ERA of 5...let alone in the mid to upper 4s. sorry, you lose this argument. The guy has 83 or so career wins and has better than a .500 record. Give me his record over some loser with a 4.00 ERA and a 75-83 record. The game is about wins and losses, not WHIP. Sorry to break that to you. That is simply the facts. Superior run support. Every game is determined by superior run support. If a game is 1-0, the team with 1 had superior run support. ERA is so overrated. It's about winning. Sorry. You contradict yourself on 300 game winners, you say that wins are not important. Obviously, they are because we chart wins and 20 game winners can have high ERAs, many do. But give me Roy Halladay and his 20-plus wins over Pedro and his 12 or so wins from last year. That's the bottom line. WINNING. And wasn't Pedro out for a couple weeks or something like that? Your right about 20 games winners having high ERAs, just look out Russ Ortiz. If he had the Dodgers offense eh would've been somewhere like 10-8. Oh yeah, if you go by Coors Field pitching stats you are a fool. Thats the one ballpark you can go to and say winning isn't and indicator of a pitcher. Ignorant fool...

 

 

Otherwise I like this signing and who knows what high humidity and a pitchers ballpark can do to him. I see him having a strong April and being a consistent bullpen lefty. if Pedro is out a couple of weeks, that's Halladay's fault? That shows lack of durability. For their careers, I take Pedro. But we measure players in the here and now. The latest info we have on both Halladay and Pedro is Halladay was better. That's all I can go by. All you can too. Pedro flopped in Game 7 of the ALCS, running out of gas. Plus, Boston has tremendous run support. So does Toronto. Obviously, baseball is a TEAM game. I go by guys who give you a chance to win. Guys who win obviously do. Guys like Willis last year gave the Marlins tons of chances to win. Problem today is these fantasy geeks split hairs and crunch numbers that they lose sight of the fact the game is about winning. Sure the Dodgers have a great staff. Obviously, not great enough. Mark Redman was better with Marlins because defensively FLORIDA is OUTSTANDING, plus in PPS, Redman's long fly balls surrendered were outs. Many factors in an ERA. Oliver with the Marlins defense is better than Oliver with Rockies defense. Plus, pitching in PPS helps him too.

Repeatin' reminds me of me. Although a smart and bold poster, he gets branded because, *gasps*, he has an opinion. Although I do believe wins/losses is the most overrated stat in the game (besides OPS), this may be the pot calling the kettle black, but be a little more open minded.

 

Oliver is a fine pickup to be a fifth starter for a month, but don't look at it being any more than that. I would not be happy if it were to be the fifth starter all year, but it's not, so get over it. He may be getting overpaid, but an extra $250,000 won't kill us people. We now have three potential left-handed relievers, making the bullpen quite even in that department.

13-12 isn't bad considering our best pitchers only won 14. The problem is getting the W's until AJ is back.