Strike 3

I don't get this whole theory that people shouldn't lose their cool. We're fans -- we don't play, we don't coach, we don't manage. We don't have to keep an even keel because we are allowed to be emotional. There is a huge difference between having knee-jerk reactions and getting upset. Assuming that they have blood running through their veins, fans show emotions. It's normal and I don't understand why there are always people here telling others they are wrong to get upset in reaction to any given game. This is not directed at the thread starter or anyone in particular. It's a general comment because there always seem to be people insinuating that fans should remain stoic and I think it's unnatural. Thank You I cant tell you how many times I have come here after a tough loss and wanted to vent and someone has a thread telling me I shouldn't feel upset I should just clap my hands , if I want to be pissed about a loss I will be pissed. I actually care when they win and when they lose ! Kudos to both of you. Like I said in another thread, compared to some Mets and Phillies forums I've seen, this place is like Disney World on Christmas. I don't mind people getting angry at games...hell, I was angry at the way the game ended last night, but the nee-jerk reactions, the over-stating, the over-exaggerating, and the down right stupid comments (Example: Mets fans after today saying things like "Congrats Phillies for winning the Division" and some stupid sh*t like that like they were suddenly out of the race after their one bad loss) deserve to have people of a calmer presence of mind informing them that they are speaking out of their ass. Seriously, if being a fan means I have to be a dumb-ass, then forgive me for not being much of a fan. Kudos! A fan looks at the team and looks at expectations. You can pissed after a loss, but around here lately after a loss the team is done for the season and after a win the team just about won the division. Take the season a week at a time before we all flip out ... Since the all-star break nothing has really changed and everyday is like a rollercoaster around here. If you read my post, I said there is a huge difference between knee-jerk reactions and getting upset. The problem here is that if one does not post something that is interpreted as optimistic then they are automatically lumped into the knee-jerk/sky is falling category. It's not either/or! What I have a problem with is that if I feel disappointed or angry after a game I am likely to be told that I should snap out of it and/or, as Irish said, clap my hands. I personally cannot ignore a craptastic game and be all chirpy after the loss. It does not mean I think the sky is falling or the season has ended! It simply means that I do not have amnesia, have not forgotten what I just saw and am not an android. For me it is impossible to be passionate about something and not react. Once again, reacting and showing emotion are not the same as overreacting and flipping out. Bottom line is that people should be able to vent on a fan board without being told how to feel.

I don't get this whole theory that people shouldn't lose their cool. We're fans -- we don't play, we don't coach, we don't manage. We don't have to keep an even keel because we are allowed to be emotional. There is a huge difference between having knee-jerk reactions and getting upset. Assuming that they have blood running through their veins, fans show emotions. It's normal and I don't understand why there are always people here telling others they are wrong to get upset in reaction to any given game. This is not directed at the thread starter or anyone in particular. It's a general comment because there always seem to be people insinuating that fans should remain stoic and I think it's unnatural. Thank You I cant tell you how many times I have come here after a tough loss and wanted to vent and someone has a thread telling me I shouldn't feel upset I should just clap my hands , if I want to be pissed about a loss I will be pissed. I actually care when they win and when they lose ! Kudos to both of you. Like I said in another thread, compared to some Mets and Phillies forums I've seen, this place is like Disney World on Christmas. I'm actually relieved that there are at least 2 of you who agree with this. I notice posters on here who get angry or upset in reaction to a play or a game and then become almost apologetic when they are "reprimanded" for showing emotion. Fanatics are not supposed to be freakin' vulcans and if you can't vent freely on a fan board where exactly are you supposed to vent? What are we, the British royal family?

I don't get this whole theory that people shouldn't lose their cool. We're fans -- we don't play, we don't coach, we don't manage. We don't have to keep an even keel because we are allowed to be emotional. There is a huge difference between having knee-jerk reactions and getting upset. Assuming that they have blood running through their veins, fans show emotions. It's normal and I don't understand why there are always people here telling others they are wrong to get upset in reaction to any given game. This is not directed at the thread starter or anyone in particular. It's a general comment because there always seem to be people insinuating that fans should remain stoic and I think it's unnatural.

JJ was great and Jake's been on fire!

I hate overreacting, but hell...I'm gonna have to, tonight. I don't know why you call this overreacting. It's the truth.

I don't disagree that there is an element of luck. I disagree about the 2003 Marlins.

Heck, as a Marlins fan, Im front row admitting we weren't the best team in the NL in 2003... here comes the heretic chants... we just were lucky enough to have Josh Beckett establish himself as one of the best big game pitchers of all-time, and yes we did get VERY lucky in the Cubs series... Gotta disagree with you there. The 2003 Marlins took off in May and never looked back. They were solid and I don't think beating the Cubs was all about luck. Maybe a lucky run or two but the Marlins got a lot more than that. Steve Bartman didn't score all those runs in that inning and the Cubs choked so the Marlins were the better team. And they flat out beat the Yankees because they were the better team. I'm not saying that because I'm a homer, I'm actually pretty critical. Those who thought the Marlins came out of nowhere in '03 were simply not watching. It's not so much that they came out of nowhere... certainly not at all, having watched consistently since 1998... I barely watched in 1997 and became a fan once all the good players were traded (bad timing on my part ) But... for all intents and purposes... when Alex Gonzalez screwed up not 1 but 2(!!!) plays in a game that should have ended the series... yeah, that screams luck... were we better than the Yankees? I'd say we were, but not by a lot, again... benefited from having Beckett completely own them... as well as the other players doing what they do... Also... when you say the Cubs choked... that's bad luck... it's not choking... I don't believe in "choking" at the ML level... that's me though, I think it's just terrible, terrible luck... will I say the Mets choked last year, yes, because I hate them, but not because it's true... but back to the point, one team's bad luck is another team's good luck... Our players were poised, cool, calm, collected and came to play. The Cubs were up 3 games to 1, got owned by Beckett and the next game completely fell apart in the "Bartman inning." Alou had a tantrum, Gonzalez f'd up and their stud pitcher crapped his pants. Then they lost again! In my eyes they choked and the Fish were the better team but, of course, that's a matter of opinion. Oh, and Beckett didn't get lucky he got flat out filthy nasty.

I had to miss this game tonight but thank God for DVR's. So glad I taped this!

Heck, as a Marlins fan, Im front row admitting we weren't the best team in the NL in 2003... here comes the heretic chants... we just were lucky enough to have Josh Beckett establish himself as one of the best big game pitchers of all-time, and yes we did get VERY lucky in the Cubs series... Gotta disagree with you there. The 2003 Marlins took off in May and never looked back. They were solid and I don't think beating the Cubs was all about luck. Maybe a lucky run or two but the Marlins got a lot more than that. Steve Bartman didn't score all those runs in that inning and the Cubs choked so the Marlins were the better team. And they flat out beat the Yankees because they were the better team. That team was poised, confident and not in awe of anyone or anything. I'm not saying that because I'm a homer, I'm actually pretty critical. Those who thought the Marlins came out of nowhere in '03 were simply not watching.

Splitting a four game home series vs the worst road team in baseball is not a good thing no matter how anyone spins it. Exactly, I'm glad you pointed out their road record. There's no spin for struggling against Glendon Rusch either. As I said earlier, splitting a series on the road is one thing but splitting a series at home against the Rockies is another. We all want our team to play better and go on a winning streak but I don't understand why it's so difficult to just say, yeah, they've played like crap and they need to improve in certain areas. Contrary to what some may think it does not make you a pessimist or a bad fan.

You do realize that we split the series, no? Oh, how about that the Rox were 17-10 in July and 10-3 since the break coming in to our series? But yeah, we split a series against a team that was incredibly hot, we suck. Splitting the series in Colorado was fine (other than the fact that one game was atrocious). We should have won the series at home and, personally, I can't disregard the fact we only managed 2 runs against Glendon Rusch.

I hear we are calling up Hansel Ramirez next week. OK, but only if he can hit with RISP. :thumbup

just a tough loss...... we had many of those already this year so looking at things oi say we are going to have a few of those every year...every team does, and we will prob have some ahead of us to. Let's try to forget this game, it's hard but we tied the series now all i care about is that the philliesl ose 2night and we take both the phillies and mets series, sweep would be nicer It's not difficult to forget one game. What is impossible to forget is the way we lose these games because they keep reminding us over and over by leaving men on base every day. Hell, they remind us even when we win! Opposing teams should realize the way to beat the Fish is to let them load the bases. I don't recall ever seeing a team put so many men on base and fail to score so many runs that should be scored -- often against mediocre pitching.

The way Joe Frisaro worded his article it seems to me Joe knew about the injured toe. http://www.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...p&c_id=null 06/01/2004 7:26 PM ET Notes: Castro pulled on Tuesday By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com Ramon Castro is hampered by inflammation in his right big toe. (Alan Diaz/AP) MIAMI -- Finding a healthy catcher is tough these days for the Marlins. With Mike Redmond resting a bruised right forearm, Ramon Castro has made three straight starts. But in the second inning of Tuesday's game, Castro was lifted for a pinch-hitter due to inflammation in his right big toe. Castro has been bothered by the toe injury for a while. Versatile veteran infielder Mike Mordecai was called upon to be the emergency catcher. Normally used as a middle infielder, Mordecai made just his second Major League appearance behind the plate. On April 2, 2001, which was Opening Day, he caught the ninth inning for the Expos at Wrigley Field against the Cubs. Mordecai reports to Spring Training with the pitchers and catchers, and also helps catch the relievers in the bullpen. Castro has been in a rut, with seven hits in his last 68 at-bats. On the year he is hitting .135, with three homers and eight RBIs. "No question, he is pressing and trying to do too much," said manager Jack McKeon. "It's tough. He had a great spring." Castro, who started on Opening Day, is trying everything. He's taken extra batting practice and working regularly with hitting coach Bill Robinson. "I think it all comes right here," said McKeon, pointing to his head. Castro is a pull hitter, and the Marlins are trying to get him to go with the pitch. Instead he is seeing occasional fastballs inside that set him up for breaking pitches away. Castro is hearing the jeering from the fans. "I think it's got to bother anybody," said McKeon of the boos. "He's a kid who, unfortunately, things are not working out for." McKeon said that he was hoping Castro would hit a home run with runners on base during Monday's game to help his confidence. "I was hoping he'd hit one out so bad," he said. McKeon, who motivates players in different ways, isn't saying much to Castro these days. So many people are trying to give Castro advice, the manager doesn't want to overwhelm him. "Sometimes I'll holler, 'Stay with it' or 'Put it in play,' " said McKeon. "It's tough." Because Castro is out of options, sending him to Triple-A is not a possibility. And though the Marlins are exploring trades for a catcher and setup reliever, no deals are likely until closer to the trade deadline, in late July. With so many teams still in the playoff picture, acquiring established players now is more difficult. There were numerous articles as well as comments from people within the Marlins org at the time that painted a completely different picture than this one from the official website. Again, I have no problem with you seeing it differently, it's long over and I only responded because you made the comment about players being crucified for injuries. I realize some people do that but I do not and this was one exception for which I have my reasons.

I wanna go back to Florida soooo bad :boo-woo Come home. All is forgiven. :thumbup

WOO~~ Thanks Astros. I saw on ESPN that Ramon Castro hurt his ankle on a weird play at the plate. Any Ramon Castro injury reminds me of the notorious "toe incident" and just makes me hate him more. It amazes me how some guys are allowed to be injured while others are crucified for it. The thing that made that different from other injuries is that no one including his coaches, trainers, manager or teammates had heard a single word or had any indication that anything was wrong. He knew there was no back-up at all that day and walked off the field in the middle of a game. Mordecai had caught one game in high school but stepped up nicely. At the very least, being fully aware of the catching situation, he could have warned someone. Say what you will about any of our catchers but do you see a Mike Redmond or Matt Trainor putting us in that kind of situation with no warning? It's not often that Marlins fans boo their own players (personally, I have never done it except maybe just in my head) but Castro was boo'd here. I don't know how you can state that as a fact. From what i remember Castro said he had the bad toe for about a month. I believed him. I guess you didn't. The manager obvioulsy didn't. Redmond was also nursing an injury but did not play in the game. Castro tried to play but couldn't continue. Yes, he did later say it had been bothering him for some time but no one else was aware of it and everyone seemed completely taken by surprise. I believe it because no one came out to defend him and say they had any knowledge of it prior to his leaving the game. I'm not implying that you have to believe it too and am only clarifying because I'm not one to condemn people for getting injured since I realize they are not intentional. In any case, he's long gone and I certainly did not mean to change the topic here.

WOO~~ Thanks Astros. I saw on ESPN that Ramon Castro hurt his ankle on a weird play at the plate. Any Ramon Castro injury reminds me of the notorious "toe incident" and just makes me hate him more. It amazes me how some guys are allowed to be injured while others are crucified for it. The thing that made that different from other injuries is that no one including his coaches, trainers, manager or teammates had heard a single word or had any indication that anything was wrong. He knew there was no back-up at all that day and walked off the field in the middle of a game. Mordecai had caught one game in high school but stepped up nicely. At the very least, being fully aware of the catching situation, he could have warned someone. Say what you will about any of our catchers but do you see a Mike Redmond or Matt Trainor putting us in that kind of situation with no warning? It's not often that Marlins fans boo their own players (personally, I have never done it except maybe just in my head) but Castro was boo'd here.

WOO~~ Thanks Astros. I saw on ESPN that Ramon Castro hurt his ankle on a weird play at the plate. Any Ramon Castro injury reminds me of the notorious "toe incident" and just makes me hate him more. Care to refresh my memory? He walked off during a game when we had no other catcher because his toe hurt. No one knew anything about the injury and McKeon was fuming. Mike Mordecai had to catch. To say Castro had been struggling at the time would be an understatement. He became Marlin fan enemy #1. A few days later McKeon was asked how Castro was doing and he said "oh, he's still walking around saying his toe hurts." By the way, I thought the best line of the night was from the woman from one of the radio stations who introduced The Bangles saying "we haven't seen this many girls on the field since the Mets were here!" :lol That was priceless. She knew how to work the crowd. And the Bengals were pretty good themselves. Never was a fan, couldn't tell you any of their names, but they did an awesome show. Plus, we were down on the field for this one. Not far from the bass player, who BTW can in NO WAY be an original Bangle. But what the heck is up with the out of town scoreboard?? Last night was even worse than Friday night. The 4th original Bangle dropped out of the band. Susanna Hoffs and the other 2 (who are sisters) are from the original group. Yeah, the scoreboard was driving me crazy too! Sometimes the NL scores were on the AL scoreboard, then everything would get messed up and then it all just went out completely. I have to admit that, although I was completely horrified when I learned we would have the Manatees, they have grown on me simply because they always make me smile. They always get more applause than the Mermaids and the fans definitely seem to enjoy them which I guess is what matters. Someone told me that the peanut vendor who always danced in the aisles is now the Manatee who lifts his shirt at the end of the dances. It does look like him and the moves sure look familiar.

free papa johns pizza is way better than donuts! I don't care either way since I always give away my ticket stub anyway. I'm just talking about the effect it had on the crowd because at first I found it annoying that they were placing so much importance on the damn donuts but then it just became pretty funny and some little kids would go into an all out frenzy. I recall a game where Mark Grace was the announcer and when the chants started he was like "these people are hungry...what are they saying...they want donuts!" They actually did get 12 hits pretty often that year to the point that Krispy Kreme regretted the promotion.

Nothing will ever top the Krispy Kreme dozen donuts promotion of 2004 that prompted all the We Want Donuts chants and signs. The announcers on the nationally broadcast games were always confused as hell.

So you are going to take a quote from the man who is obviously the worst hitter mentally on the entire team and run it as the team mantra? That said, Jake hits .429/.467/1.143 with 3 HR off Moyer in 15 ABs. I don't think he is the one who needs to change anything. Unfortunately, it sometimes does seem like the team mantra. How many times have we seen a pitcher struggling to throw strikes and our guys go up, swing away and strike out.

That's crap. Good hitters make adjustments.

WOO~~ Thanks Astros. I saw on ESPN that Ramon Castro hurt his ankle on a weird play at the plate. Any Ramon Castro injury reminds me of the notorious "toe incident" and just makes me hate him more. Care to refresh my memory? He walked off during a game when we had no other catcher because his toe hurt. No one knew anything about the injury and McKeon was fuming. Mike Mordecai had to catch. To say Castro had been struggling at the time would be an understatement. He became Marlin fan enemy #1. A few days later McKeon was asked how Castro was doing and he said "oh, he's still walking around saying his toe hurts." By the way, I thought the best line of the night was from the woman from one of the radio stations who introduced The Bangles saying "we haven't seen this many girls on the field since the Mets were here!" :lol

WOO~~ Thanks Astros. I saw on ESPN that Ramon Castro hurt his ankle on a weird play at the plate. Any Ramon Castro injury reminds me of the notorious "toe incident" and just makes me hate him more.

As others pointed out Gregg needs the work to stay effective and he has done well lately. I am one of those who had reached the point where I couldn't bear to watch him but he's been very good.