japerez86

Here we go again. Whether it was because of him or not, attendace went up in 2005 from 2004, and in 2004 from 2003. So, it is a true statement to say that attendance increased after signing Delgado. The numbers have been cited on this board before. We can argue it wasn;t because of Delgado or that the #s didn't go as high up as some people would have hoped, but we did have increased attendance in 2005. The attendance rose but not even as high as the rest of the league. We went from 26th in the league to 28th in the league from 2004 to 2005. But attendance did rise from 2004 to 2005. And in 2006 after the 'market correciton' attendance dropped. Not only that but comparing the signing of Delgado to a signing of Manny Ramirez is laughable. Delgado was a power hitting first baseman from the Blue Jays. Unless, your a real baseball fan or from Puerto Rico, Delgado was a nobody. Everybody knows Manny Ramirez. Signing Delgado is like the Heat acquiring Marion, signing Manny is like acquiring Shaq. Regardless of how much of a fantasy a Manny signing is, can people please stop with the stupid "we signed Delgado and nothing happened with attendance" argument. The comparison is not equitable. You do realize average attendance "rose" by about 800 people. That's not a typo, it's actual figure is 781. For a team that just came off it's 2nd and 3rd winning seasons with another Championship. I doubt that is even close percentage-wise to what the population in South Florida rose in that time span, much less how it compares MLB wide. Sorry, but I don't call that a rise in attendance. It would be generous to give it a push. Very generous. I doubt signing a tempermental, "it's all about me", known to sluff off when he isn't happy type player would increase average attendance much more, if at all. But it would be hard to tell the difference between if they were buying up some sort of season ticket package to see him, or if they were doing it for the right to first picks for the WBC tickets (which we declined, BTW) AND guaranteed comparable seating in the new ball park. The "sign Manny" fans would say it was because of him, while the rest of us would sit back and knowingly chuckle. I believe the appropriate analysis is to check season ticket purchases and not total attendance. Rise in season ticket packages means the Marlins were worth the investment... total attendance usually has to do with walk-up purchases... which depends on how good we are doing and that season was the death of Mike Lowell and Juan Pierre

Maybin will be the only good chip in the Cabrera trade, mark my words! Basically a one for one swap! Hopefully Maybin is a superstar

With the focus of the front office on speed and defense, I'm just wondering where Brett fits in, if at all, in the outfield picture. While he's certainly had injury troubles and hasn't hit well in his 100 or so AB's, but he certainly has the arm to play RF at DS. I say bench, trade or minors.

I thought he was fine now as well or would be fine. if he has a condition that makes him not run for very long, I dont see how he is worth so much.

I hate how this article says our payroll will double and every other article projects the Marlins between 32-35 million. That is a 9-12 million dollar difference.

According to Jayson Stark, we may go after Orlando Hudson and move Uggla to third and Cantu to first....plus he thinks that Arthur Rhodes is someone that we NEED to bring back....heres the link http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stor...;page=rumblings WHAT THEY NEED: Bullpen arms, defensive upgrades. FREE AGENT WHO COULD TOP THEIR LIST: Arthur Rhodes. HOW THEY'LL SHOP: This just in: The Marlins' payroll is doubling. OK, relax. They're only doubling $21.8 million. And arbitration raises will chew up most of that windfall. So while the Marlins won't remind you of the Yankees, that doesn't mean they won't do ANY shopping. If they can't re-sign Rhodes, they'll chase the Darren Olivers of the free-agent pool. They'll also hunt for low-budget outfield bats. And one name we keep hearing is Orlando Hudson, who would inspire them to shift Dan Uggla to third. Let's just do this for the sake of argument. Let's add in Hudson and Rhodes. C John Baker $405,000 1B Gaby Sanchez $400,000 2B Orlando Hudson $9,000,000 3B Dallas McPherson $550,000 SS Hanley Ramirez $5,500,000 RF Jeremy Hermida $2,500,000 CF Cameron Maybin $400,000 LF Cody Ross $3,000,000 B Wes Helms $950,000 B Alfredo Amezaga $1,750,000 B Emilio Bonifacio $410,000 B ?1B/OF? $400,000 B Mike Rabelo $410,000 SP Josh Johnson $1,750,000 SP Ricky Nolasco $3,000,000 SP Chris Volstad $405,000 SP Andrew Miller $1,350,000 SP Anibal Sanchez $420,000 RP Matt Lindstrom $420,000 RP Arthur Rhodes $3,000,000 RP Joe Nelson $800,000 RP Leo Nunez $420,000 RP Reynel Pinto $420,000 RP Eulogio De La Cruz $400,000 RP Dan Meyer $400,000 $38,460,000 Alright, they can't afford Dan and Cantu with this, but this is an insane team. The lineup would look phenomenal. The top 3 would be our up the middle - which is insane. Maybin R Hudson S Hanley R Hermida L G. Sanchez R Baker L Ross R McPherson / Bonifacio L / S Of course you have - Gregg, Uggla, Cantu, COGHLAN, Kensing, J. Delgado, and Andino to trade in this scenario. That is a lot, A LOT, of stuff coming back in trades. At least one A prospect for Uggla, at least B prospects for Gregg, Cantu, and the rest of Uggla, probably could get Choo/Francisco from Cleveland or Chris Duncan/Shucmacher from St. L for Coghlan to fix that 1B/OF spot, and the rest whatever. Longterm, wouldn't be a problem with atleast $ 8 million (Ross, Rhodes, Amezaga) coming off the books, and potentially up to $10.5-11 million if Hermida and McPherson tank. Coupled with our huge quantity of OF and RP prospects in the minors, West, and trading off Gregg, Uggla, Cantu, Coghlan, Ross, and Amezaga at a minimum, we'd be able to fill organizational holes and field cost effective teams pre stadium even with huge contracts to Hanley and Hudson. This could shockingly work, IF, payroll is closer to $40 and the team is fine trading Gregg, Uggla, and Cantu this offseason. Insane idea Jayson Stark, but it's a great team if they want or are able to do this. Would Hudson really cost $9 million? GEEZ. I personally would not want to see UGGLA go now that we do not have a cleanup hitter. Hermida has been inconsistent thus far and to expect consistency would be a bit extreme. He also would be batting behind Hanley and I think Hanley needs some sort of protection. Either Cantu or Uggla has to stay under the Hudson scenario. I would prefer both with Uggla moving to third like the article mentions. Financially, I do not see how this works.

I do not see why we don't pursue a guy like Rocco Baldelli. Seems like the perfect Cantu-like scenario. He is talented, just inury-prone. He would be a low-priced option. Because he will cost a lot more than $500k like Cantu did. Someone is going to give him $2-4 million with a club option and try and resurrect him. And I bet Tampa keeps him for part time DH, part time RF. we gave that to Luis Gonzalez last year. This guy has a lot more upside and 2 to 3 mil would be worth it because I believe he is much better than Ross. But, he is worth it to me and I agree with you that Beinfest won't take that gamble. And I agree that this is much riskier than Cantu was.

That argument could be credible. Miguel Cabrera was considered a beast in this organization and around his 20th Bday he was called up. I think this largely depends on his performance in ST and if he rises to AA. In that scenario, it is incredibly realistic that he could be called up to the bigs.

I do not see why we don't pursue a guy like Rocco Baldelli. Seems like the perfect Cantu-like scenario. He is talented, just inury-prone. He would be a low-priced option.

This is very speculative, but I suspect they would get an "A" level starting pitching prospect in AA or above, a decent 2nd prospect, and a third piece that is a nominal player (bench, bullpen). This is basically asking San Francisco for Aldersen or Bumgarner, someone else I can't think of off the top of my head, and someone like Hinshaw (RP) from their pen. That would be pretty tremendous. I believe this trade is workable, however, with Cain being dangled, how likely do you think the prospects would be let go? Also, would these guys be ready for next year because the emphasis is on competing next year? Uggla for Cain is 1-1 Aldersen or Bumgarner would be 2010 versions of Volstad. They need a year and a half minimum. The other guys who knows what else they would go for. This is what frustrates me. I love Dan Uggla. but so many people seem to hate him or want him replaced with Coghlan and call Uggla a bonehead. But, we think his trade value is very high. That being said, these trades would be pretty nice. I do like the Cain addition. the 2010 guys would be nice if we were just salary dumping, If the emphasis is on being ready to compete by the time the stadium is built and not next year, then i make the prospect deal.

This is very speculative, but I suspect they would get an "A" level starting pitching prospect in AA or above, a decent 2nd prospect, and a third piece that is a nominal player (bench, bullpen). This is basically asking San Francisco for Aldersen or Bumgarner, someone else I can't think of off the top of my head, and someone like Hinshaw (RP) from their pen. That would be pretty tremendous. I believe this trade is workable, however, with Cain being dangled, how likely do you think the prospects would be let go? Also, would these guys be ready for next year because the emphasis is on competing next year?

Dan Uggla is by no means a certainty to be traded. However, we have all speculated that he will. Concerning Uggla, what do you believe his trade value is on the current market and what position should a deal involving Uggla augment? My assumption is that an Uggla deal would mean Coghlan is the opening day 2baseman. keeping that in mind, please speculate as to which players Uggla could net with the proper combination and what positions a trade of Uggla should garner in return... IMO, the marlins should get a Starting pitcher to slide Volstad and Anibal down a slot (Miller goes to the Pen). My other option would be to get a LF. I have concerns about Hammer's health. If healthy, I think he is a cheap and intelligent solution. This is my first new topic ever. I usually gather a lot of my trade speculation thoughts and insight from this board. Go...

Coghlan. A transition to 2B is considered easier than moving from 2B to 3B and yet he made a boatload of errors. What would you consider the reasons for this? He must be great defensively. And speed... is overrated... says PWG... so why would his replacing UGGLA make baseball/financial sense. Losing all of Uggla's production for an asset whose most important attribute is overrated. wow Coghlan's best asset is the fact he doesn't strike out much and he puts the ball and play while showing good plate discipline. He is poor defensively and yes still worse than Uggla (Uggla, btw, was much improved). Uggla did strike out a lot, but he was our second best run producer last year. What is Coghlan's OBP compared to Uggla's in the Major Leagues? That is what counts when it comes to plate discipline and striking out as many posters have argued. If Uggla is K'ing more, yet hitting 30-35 Hr's, 50 doubles, 90-100 RBI, and his OBP is HIGHER than Coghlans + better defense (now), then IMO, UGGLA remains more valuable than Coghlan. But, I see the point in trading him if it IMPROVES our team. If this nets us a Matt Cain as some other posts have suggested, then I jump on the Coghlan bandwagon. I think Coghlan is suitable if that means we have a quality player in return for Uggla. It all depends on what Uggla's trade value is and what that nets. The question is... what do we get in exchange for UGGLA that makes it worthwhile?

Ok... so let's just make this fun for me then... So, we're supposed to get rid of all those players... to have the money... to be able to trade for... a 1B that, via platoon, we can get reasonably similar production to? That is so asinine on SO many levels... As for the 2Bs and Uggla... Brian Roberts will cost too much and Castillo's not worth bringing in over just bringing up Coghlan who would provide probably better production than Castillo and not cost NEARLY what Roberts will... see what I did there, replaced from WITHIN the system, and much cheaper... cool huh? 1B and Jacobs? We have a stellar 3man platoon that will do just fine, I mentioned it earlier... McDallas/Cantu/Gaby will be solid. Also, seriously... you want to pay a TON of money to Pudge to back up John Baker, because that's what he'd do... is back up John Baker and probably only play against LHP and be a defensive sub... that's not a wise way to spend money... and heck, I even conceded to Kendall a bit, though I admitted bias there. But Kendall doesn't provide that much more than a Brett Hayes will... Oh hey, I just improved us at a bunch of positions/or gave us similar production to your alternatives, from within the system... and saved a bunch of money (by switching to Geico)... isn't that something? YOU are the type of person I was targetting with this post. You are concerned with the production we are getting out of these positions when the FO has already said they could give a rat's *** about the production. They want to improve the speed and defense, which is what this post is about. How many more SB's, and how many fewer Errors will Coghlan have next year than Uggla did this year, and how many more SB's, and how many fewer Errors will your 3-way at 1st have over our 1b's this year? I disagree with the premise that any of these players will be signed and/or traded for regardless of the FO's emphasis on team speed and defense. However, most Marlins fans are making large assumptions. Are young players capable of making the everyday player transition into platoon artist at the ML level? It is entirely possible that Dallas McPherson, Sanchez and Cantu will be platooning and Coghlan will be at 2B, but as the post-starter mentioned, I do not see how this improves our team. Yes, McPherson is better defensively than Cantu. And yes Cantu/Gaby are better D at first. But you are platooning Cantu, a very productive and arguably our most consistent bat/MVP. McPherson is a strikeout artist. However, his OBP is better, but can we count on him? Furthermore, platoons do not always work. Cody Ross, for instance, was much better playing everyday. A lot of people on this post wanted an Amezaga/Cody platoon. Coghlan. A transition to 2B is considered easier than moving from 2B to 3B and yet he made a boatload of errors. What would you consider the reasons for this? He must be great defensively. And speed... is overrated... says PWG... so why would his replacing UGGLA make baseball/financial sense. Losing all of Uggla's production for an asset whose most important attribute is overrated. wow I do agree that Jacobs is replaceable because he lacks contact, OBP, and is lousy against lefties anyway. But Uggla was pretty good and our options are not as sexy as the replacements for Jacobs. The OF: Hermida deserves another shot because of his age and Willingham, if his back does not improve, can be replaced with some Cody as I hope MAybin is patrolling the bermuda triangle.

This is really tough to analyze. The Rays this year may be playing in a better division than the Marlins in 2003, but the Marlins also put themselves in a pretty big hole at the beginning of the year. We had the best record in baseball from that point on. The argument also requires an analysis of the leagues. The Marlins also called up Miguel Cabrera and Willis. They did not start the season with the additions mentioned above whereas the Rays did. What about an analysis of the stadiums, injuries, and bullpen. The Marlins had injuries to Ivan Rodriguez, Josh Beckett, and the rays had injuries to Evan longoria and Troy Percival. What about the matchups in the postseason? The marlins did not have homefield advantage at any point of the playoffs. They opened in San Fran against Jason Schmidt, and then won three straight (last game in dramatic fashion). They played the Cubs (better record and three ridiculous studs for pitchers) and beat them 3 straight against zambrano, prior and wood. Then the analysis would go to the Yankees. The marlins beat the Yankees in Yankee stadium. If the Rays win, it will be against the Phillies. I think that comparison is worth mentioning.