Old Timer

I've been following this team since i was 11 years old (I'm 17). And we haven't come very close to the post season in any season since. But don't blame the FO.....it's all on the players !

Love the comment from Buck. Bell is really an excuse laden piece of sh*t who is now calling out our catchers? Get rid of this guy I am proud of Buck calling him out. Loria needs to dispose of Bell before he causes too much rancor within the lockerroom.

the Marlins' top signee could be supplemental third-rounder Kolby Copeland. Total fail on Loria & the FO. This means more FA spending next year, or they are hoping to get a bunch of Ruggs type signings. Doesn't give a lot of hope for the future. If I am Giancarlo Stanton I am not signing a long-term until I see Loria making a commitment to winning in the long-term.

Alright. Write Loria a letter, and let him know you can do a better job and Beinfest should be canned immediately for you to replace him. Give 20 reasons why Beinfest should be canned [14 of which will, I'm sure, be about that first round of the draft], and maybe Loria will come to his senses and hire you. I mean, since you can do so much better at drafting. How about putting some of the blame on the players themselves? If they don't improve, that's not Beinfest's fault. That's not Loria's fault. That's their own fault. You can't put blame on Beinfest that Kyle Skipworth can't hit for sh*t. You can't put the blame on Beinfest for Jeff Allison going on a drug binge. You can't fault Beinfest for any of that. All you can do in a draft is pick a guy, and hope things work out. Unless you're who you are, Old Timer, a guy with a crystal ball who will automatically know which player will be a bust or who will shine in the majors. So nothing is ever Beinfest's fault..... I'm nearly speechless. :ohno :swoon I know I couldn't do his job, and never have said I could. But there are organizations that do better than Beinfest EVERY YEAR, YEAR AFTER YEAR. If you can't accept that, then fine, keep turning a blind eye. Just one stat for you. Since the Marlins were in the playoffs in 2003, the NL has sent into the playoffs - St. Louis (2011), Atlanta (2010), NY Mets (2006), Philadelphia (2011), San Diego (2006), Los Angeles (2009), Chicago Cubs (2008), Milwaukee (2011), Houston (2005), Cincinnati (2010), San Francisco (2010), Colorado (2009), and Arizona (2011). And if Pittsburgh and Washington make it this year (and I believe they could) then the team that hasn't made the playoffs in the longest time, will be the Marlins. That is an indictment of Beinfest, Hill and all the development coaches in the organization. Every other organization has just not had the "bad luck" you attribute to Beinfest & Co......really ? So presented with that, you still believe in giving this guy more time ? C'mon already !

And I am sure the inevitable Loria/Beinfest defenders will be here soon.

Oh that makes this the fourteenth (or thereabouts) 1st round pick by Beinest that will not help this team. What a guy LOL

LOL......no pic of Beinfest even needed.

This is just really sad for him and his family over the last 10 weeks. And his failing health over the last couple years. In overall scheme of things maybe it is better that the mind goes first and instead of the body. Just thinking about it. After the Freeh Report today, no one should ever feel sorry for JoPa or any of his family. His legacy now is of knowing about a child predator and covering it up because of the "bad publicity". The report states that neither he, nor any of the others at Penn St ever showed any remorse for the victims of Sandusky, until after Sandusky's arrest. That is nauseating and sick.

I just looked it up and the last All-Star Game in Cincinnati was in 1988. They might have an argument over us. But shouldn't they have gotten one before Arizona ?

2015 there;s no doubt it either coming to Miami or Washington. Period. I 80%/20% Miami Then Miami should win out...new ballpark and we've had baseball longer. I believe its already been in Colorado and I know its been in Arizona, then we should be next. We've done what baseball asked of us. After Minnesota, we should be next in line, and then from the NL side Washington. Tampa has to build a stadium, or it could be another 10-15 years before they get one.

2015 there;s no doubt it either coming to Miami or Washington. Period. I 80%/20% Miami The only "snag" could be that I believe MLB wants to use Marlins Park in the upcoming "World Baseball Classic" and if they do, they may feel that's "enough" to satisfy the fans & ownership down here. When will they award the 2015 & 2016 games ? Because unless attendance stays up & steady, Selig could use that as an excuse to not give it to us. If they award it after this year then we'll be okay - but you can already see the attendance slipping (for good reason the team is playing crappy) this year. If we have another bad season next year I can see major problems with attendance starting next year.

Miami has had a team for 20 seasons now. MLB already awarded us either the 1999 or 2000 game but took it back (Selig I think said it was because of the 1997 firesale - it was to punish Huiezenga supposedly but all it did was farther alienate & punish baseball fans in South Fla). We deserve it, but sentimentality will probably make sure that Wrigley Field will host. Wrigley would be hosting for 2014, we're looking at 2015. If Cubs did end up getting it, it would be for the 100 year in 2014 like Mike said. I would be surprised they go with another NL team in 2015. that would put NL games three years in a row. They have done two before back to back though so you never know. Minnesota 2015, Miami 2016. I'd have no problem with that at all. I agree. Hopefully this is what happens.

Miami has had a team for 20 seasons now. MLB already awarded us either the 1999 or 2000 game but took it back (Selig I think said it was because of the 1997 firesale - it was to punish Huiezenga supposedly but all it did was farther alienate & punish baseball fans in South Fla). We deserve it, but sentimentality will probably make sure that Wrigley Field will host.

3rd- the farm system has vey little to no impact on our struggles this season. Big name players are faltering. It happens. Pujols wasn't great to start the year either. I completely disagree. Some would say that bringing up Willis and Cabrera SAVED the 2003 season. We have no one close to coming up to salvage this season. It's sink or swim with what we have. So even if we did, do you bench Hanley or Reyes for a new rookie? Lomo has been heating up and had no real reason to believe he wouldnt atleast get better than he was and Kearns and Dobbs have filled in nicely when needed Boni was our plan and I would say Ruggiano stepped in to that position just fine. Stanton injury definately hurt, They made a move to shore up Gaby's position. Infante has been fine. Reyes and Hanley are underperforming but you dont pull them out for an unknown. Bucks position you might could platoon with Realmuto but if he was ready but thats it really. If you have players that can make that kind of possible impact, you make room for them. Even if it is platooning them at 1st. Then when you are sure they can be the impact players you can count on full time, then you try to deal the "star" players for prospects & payroll relief in order to get in a better payroll position for the future. The facts are for us, because of Beinfest's failures we have nothing in our farm system to impact and save our season from within our system. That means no real impact to boost the team for the 2nd half.....it's sink or swim more or less with what we have for this year. And because this year has been such a disaster, will Loria have the guts to spend even more money next off-season ? He will have to do it via Free Agency, again because Beinfest has not been effective in building our system. That means once again we have to overpay. The front office, whether it be Loria or Beinfest and his crew, did not have any backup plan. Their arrogance once again has shown its ugly head.

3rd- the farm system has vey little to no impact on our struggles this season. Big name players are faltering. It happens. Pujols wasn't great to start the year either. I completely disagree. Some would say that bringing up Willis and Cabrera SAVED the 2003 season. We have no one close to coming up to salvage this season. It's sink or swim with what we have.

Not forgetting he got McKeon as well. So one experience gives him a free pass for failures in almost every draft, trade and FA signing since then ? You're a cop right ? Say you save someone's life early in your career. Get commendations, key to the city, etc etc. Then you start making mistakes, like getting your partner shot, not staying on your patrol, crime goes up on your beat. Do you think you'd keep your job ? Same with Beinfest, why does he continue to get a free pass, year after year. His complete botching of the Cabrera trade & blowing five 1st round picks in 2005 should have cost him his job then and there. Why you decided to use an example that compares baseball to someone getting shot, I don't have a clue but a simple reference to any job would have worked. Every example you are listing for hating the FO is something that couldn't been predicted. Every team has bust and trades that blow up in their face. Shit happens. During the winter meetings weren't you saying that you won't believe the Marlins untill they start spending money and that they will never spend money.. Now that you spending your bitching about them spending money on high talent players that 2 out of three are PROBABLY having the worst year of their careers, one definately. Untill he starts missing big with a big payroll, he gets a pass for now. Before 2012 he was playing with a low payroll. A Lower payroll means you have to play on the level of high risk players. Hoping to find gold in the creek instead of going to a jewelry store. The fact that we even fielded a few winning teams over those years should mean something. I used that as an example because I believe you are a law enforcement officer - am I correct ? If so, then its pertinent. That is a scenario that CAN happen correct ? As far as the Marlins spending, I didn't believe Loria when he said he would spend money. I was wrong and admitted that later. Seems I am the only person on this board who can never be forgiven - but that's okay. On this issue of Beinfest I still believe I am correct and will eventually be proven right. The man is below average as a GM, and his performance has been less than stellar. Other than the 2nd year here he has done little to nothing to build this team to win, and now when its ready to spend some money on winning, he has done such a horrible job at building the farm system (through his MANY mistakes in the 1st round) that we have the 3rd WORST farm system in MLB. That means the only way to get better is to spend even more money next year. I still am skeptical that Loria has the will to do that, given the disaster his FA signings this year have been. And should he trust Beinfest to be the one to help him in the future ? It depends on whether or not Loria wants to blame Beinfest or not. If he does, I'll bet Beinfest will be gone.

Not forgetting he got McKeon as well. So one experience gives him a free pass for failures in almost every draft, trade and FA signing since then ? You're a cop right ? Say you save someone's life early in your career. Get commendations, key to the city, etc etc. Then you start making mistakes, like getting your partner shot, not staying on your patrol, crime goes up on your beat. Do you think you'd keep your job ? Same with Beinfest, why does he continue to get a free pass, year after year. His complete botching of the Cabrera trade & blowing five 1st round picks in 2005 should have cost him his job then and there. Old timer- PLEASE tell me where the hell he said Beinfest deserves a pass. I don't think I missed him saying that. Then why the love for this guy ? The Marlins can do better than Beinfest. It's frustrating watching other teams building their franchises up and we stay mired in mediocrity at best, year after year. Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing time after time and expecting a different result". We've watched this man operate the same way for years now, and the result is always the same - we are never bad enough to get great players or good enough to get into the playoffs. It's time for a fresh set of ideas, eyes and approach in the organization.

So pretty much it's fair to say both had a heavy hand in creating the winning team and neither myself or Old timer is completely correct. No, OT seems to have some sort of delusional fixation on Bienfest and the FO in general. Bienfest is evil, 'cause OT says so. He's not EVIL. I just believe he's incompetent.

I don't think I've seen this done before now, but I was curious and decided to tally up the WAR values for the Beinfest and Dombrowski players of the 2003 Marlins. A total of 40 different players saw playing time in 2003; 20 of those were from Dombrowski and the other 20 from Beinfest. When I added up the Fangraphs WAR (fWAR) for both groups of players, these were the results: Beinfest: 22.9 Dombrowski: 25.6 So it's pretty close. Those numbers match what my intuition has been telling me--nearly a tie but with a slight edge going to Dombrowski. I think you'd have to expect Dombrowski getting a slight edge for assembling all four infielders with good defense and good bats. And since Dombrowski left and went to Detroit, he's put together one team that has gone to the World Series. Can Beinfest match that ?

Not forgetting he got McKeon as well. So one experience gives him a free pass for failures in almost every draft, trade and FA signing since then ? You're a cop right ? Say you save someone's life early in your career. Get commendations, key to the city, etc etc. Then you start making mistakes, like getting your partner shot, not staying on your patrol, crime goes up on your beat. Do you think you'd keep your job ? Same with Beinfest, why does he continue to get a free pass, year after year. His complete botching of the Cabrera trade & blowing five 1st round picks in 2005 should have cost him his job then and there.

His first year here he one a WS but yea other then that I kind of agree. Not a lot of progress. actually Loria's 2nd year. He bought the team in 2002.

His first year here he one a WS but yea other then that I kind of agree. Not a lot of progress. Everybody gets lucky once in a while.

Wasn't Loria the one who wanted Bell? Yep and its the job of Beinfest, Samson and Hill to talk him out of that crap. Yeah, I don't think they're going to go against what their boss says. If he fires them, and they are worth anything they will find other jobs. If they can't, then it's not a bad thing they are gone. If Loria is such a bad owner that he is that much of a meglomanic then don't expect too much from this franchise unless they just happen to get lucky (like 2003) My brief 2 cents: - Marlins have got a home. Loria built a great stadium. After all he is not that bad owner. - He loves baseball. He's an artist. He has swinging mood and micromanagement attitude. - Samson is the joker face of the franchise but we can do nothing about him. The franchise can hide him. - Beinfest's job is to have Loria's best hand but should filter his ideas. He is the pro face of the franchise. His job was to build a team. Beinfest fails big time: (1) the farm system has become empty and (2) the Marlins, a major league team, has no core you can build on... - They forget to build a team. So in other words, GET RID OF....... Been saying that for years.....

I've never heard of a "lights out" fielder, ever. :| But, still. Morrison is much better at first than in left. Agreed but if he doesn't hit better in the 2nd half, he's not worth that much even if he plays at 1st. He's already hitting better, though. 11 game hitting streak with some power in it. Do you expect it to last ? He seems to be very streaky.....and after the All-Star Break could be where he gets cold again, I hope not, but history says it will.

Wasn't Loria the one who wanted Bell? Yep and its the job of Beinfest, Samson and Hill to talk him out of that crap. Yeah, I don't think they're going to go against what their boss says. If he fires them, and they are worth anything they will find other jobs. If they can't, then it's not a bad thing they are gone. If Loria is such a bad owner that he is that much of a meglomanic then don't expect too much from this franchise unless they just happen to get lucky (like 2003) At the same time, none of us [except maybe Erick who noticed his down trend] expected this to happen. Canada-marlin might say he did, but won't have proof. [Jokes, my friend] Seriously, he was the top closer available with a damn good track record the last 3 years. Shit happens, sadly. This is the problem with Loria, he thinks he knows more than he does about baseball, and doesn't let real baseball people do their job. He did it with Girardi...went behind Beinfest's back and hired him, when Beinfest wanted Gonzalez (which he got the next year - and we'll never know how much Beinfest had a hand in Girardi's downfall). Beinfest almost quit then.