--Clement has all the pitches in the world, with some 'sick' movement, but he is still erratic

Thats one guy i regret traing First he had an Awesome season in 2002 and Julian Tavarez Sucked big time with us! I would take him back any day now since Arnesberg worked alot with him. Clement has movement but no control.. he's wacked this year.. no control.. I don't like it..

--Clement has all the pitches in the world, with some 'sick' movement, but he is still erratic

Thats one guy i regret traing First he had an Awesome season in 2002 and Julian Tavarez Sucked big time with us! I would take him back any day now since Arnesberg worked alot with him. I think you mean, now that Rothschild has worked with him

Every trade isn't going to work out but let's remember Dontrelle is here BECAUSE of the Clement trade. Getting rid of Alfonseca probably made it worth it.

Marlins2003 - I agree with what you have posted thus far. I think you are right on and being very fair with the evaluation of Beinfest. Edcanes, I think your posts have been a little one sided, and only seem to account for talent swapping and this is not the whole picture.

 

When evaluting a team's moves, there seems to be 2 basic criteria: talent and money.

 

The Marlins have one of the worst incomes in all of MLB. Thanks Huizenga and Henry. But we will not look for blame as a crutch, but rather to use this reality in evaluating Beinfest. The budget for this season was set at $50MM. The Marlins had 12 players up for arbitration - Burnett among them. How did Beinfest handle this task? First thing he had to do, in order to sign anyone was to get rid of the fat contracts of PW and CJ. He did this by almost landing Hampton - whose snobbery we should not forgive - but instead got a CFer and an excellent arm in the bullpen, Spoon. Defense improved, K's went down (on offense) and up (from pitching), bullpen became much deeper.

 

Then, the Marlins had the freedom (fiscally) to sign these 12 to 1 year deals. Why 1 year deals? Because contracts like PW and CJ taught us not to commit all star money to mediocre players. This granted us freedom to commit both fiscally to players who had the talent to lead us to the promised land. The foundation had to be re-set and roll players could always be found cheap (bye Millar, hello Hollandsworth).

 

The Millar 'deal'. To evaluate this, consider that by not signing Millar, we gained Hollandsworth and Redman. We had to deal away Henkel and Knotts to get Redman, but the $$ needed to sign Redman (up for arbitration too = 13) was granted thanks to not signing Millar. (Millar $2MM, Redman $1MM and Hollandsworth $1MM). Also, this brings us to the G Williams debacle. The reason he was signed was so that the agents of Millar would see him through the waivers so that their client could go to Japan - and honor the agreement made between the Marlins and the Japanese club. But the Red Sox mucked it up - and so did Millar's lying agents. MLB did not step in and force this deal to go through, but instead only helped the Red Sox get Millar (if it was the other way around...?). Millar shouldnt even be playing for the Red Sox and we got stuck with G Williams' contract. The agents scrwed us...

 

Pudge was 'special' money. If it was made public that the Marlins could have signed Pudge, but didnt, and he was playing with the Orioles, I guarantee Hank, Le Buttocks, and others would be ripping the Marlins for not trying to sign him - as would Gammons, I am sure. We took a chance, it will pay off, even if we cant see it yet.

 

Clement/AA for Willis, Cueto, and Jorgensen. Incomplete deal, but AA is garbage and check with fiscal flexibility. Clement for Willis, Cueto, Jorgensen and, oh, Tavarez. I argued in the past the at the time of the deal this was pretty solid. Tavarez and Clement had similar numbers at that point, even though everyone thought Clement was more talented - there was no reason to believe this would change. I did not like this trade at the time, but I have come to understand it and I think it is unfair to say that Beinfest made a bad trade. We need to see what becomes of Willis and Clement first, but if it plays out like it has so far - Beinfest is on the verge of getting the 'genius' label in my book for that one. The Cubs didnt even know Willis was that good!

 

Floyd/Dempster/Vargas for Encarnacion, Wayne, Snare, Levinski, Lloyd, Mordecai, Pavano a bucket of fried chicken. Floyd and Encarnacion - En is better, cheaper, younger, healthier right now. This is looking to at least be even, if not better for the long term. Dempster for ? Dempster is washed up. How come no one has blamed the Henry era for blowing up his arm or overusing him? Hmm...The Marlins said they were going to fill up the tub with their own bathwater. We needed pitching because as good as Dombrowski is, he left the cupboard bare - and he probably knew that which is why he left for Detroit.

 

Now ask yourself, what team in MLB could lose 3 starters - among some of the best in the game - and still be having a chance to win games? In fact, the pitching hasnt been the problem of late - it is the offense!

 

I think Beinfest has taken a very difficult situation and turned it around. I also think things are only going to get better. As for the Kazmir vs. Hermida - the jury is still out. After all, the Mets did have one of the best crops of young arms in the game several years ago - Wilson, Isringhausen - and they didnt cut it. Kazmir may or may not make it, but Hermida could still turn it around. It is too early to tell and one draft will not make or break a GM. Give Beinfest a chance - and the Marlins for that matter. We need to have patience.

and then there is the public persona....

 

 

 

which should also be considered when evaluating a high profile job like this.

 

 

 

granted i am making no judgements, just stating that this should be a part of his criteria for judging his job performance.

True, it should be considered. I havent really seen Beinfest's public manifestation though, so I dont think I would be qualified to make a jugement.

neither have i..i am a bit removed from the public...hence why i refrain from making any sort of judgement.