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TealMonster
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I disagree.

 

He got us into a military action we could have avoided. Wasted billions of tax dollars (on war and churches). And he needs to evolve and let gays marry.

 

I'm not saying Kerry's the better choice, I'm just not a fan of Bush.

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its againts gods way.

and if you dont mind me asking, are you a christian?

Uh, there's no proof there IS a god. That's based on faith. Faith doesn't matter in the eyes of a state and it's taxing (married couples get breaks gay couples can't because of the marriage statement).

 

Also, people are born gay. Further proof God isn't against homos. And I'm speaking of the TRUE God (if there is one) not some Christian interpretation of one.

 

Nope, sorry, I'm agnostic.

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you guys know how I feel.

 

 

BW, its hard to respond to someone who says its Gods way.

Yeah, I don't understand the logic of bringing God into a rational discussion either.

 

But, it's fun to argue. Particularly with "God's followers" who don't understand what a concundrum/little signifigance God plays in this stuff.

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He got us into a military action we could have avoided.

At the long term cost of what though? Ongoing deployments to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait for the next 50 years ala South Korea?

 

IMO, biting the bullet now will ultimately wind up being less costly in the long run. Don't forget - it was our ongoing presense in the kingdom after Gulf War v1.0 that (supposedly) inflamed Bin Ladden in the first place. I think he'd have been after us anyway, but it was good propaganda that played well in the street...

 

How soon we forget Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti v1.0 too... "Biting the bullet now"?

 

Any military action that can be avoided, is best done so. I don't see a bunch of people with AK47's and outdated weapons (our old munitions) as a threat, sorry. Plus, us shoving democracy down the people's throats is bad news.

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Any military action that can be avoided, is best done so

Yeah, just go ask Chamberlain, or Woodrow Wilson. Isolationism and reactionism is the best way to go. Remember, if you ignore a problem, it'll go away!!!

 

Plus, us shoving democracy down the people's throats is bad news.

 

Yeah, it turned out really bad in Japan, Germany and South Korea, to name a few.

 

Faith doesn't matter in the eyes of a state and it's taxing (married couples get breaks gay couples can't because of the marriage statement).

 

God and faith issues aside, it is much more advantageous for the Federal Gov't to keep same-sex marriage illegal. The biggest effect gay marriage has is the huge outlay of cash it will cost the Gov't. All of a sudden every gay spouse has to be offered all the benefits (pension, helath care, etc) that they are now ineligible for.

 

Even if Kerry gets in office, you'll see him vhange his tune on gay marriage the minute someone spells out the financials for him. Much like the whole gays in the military thing, once a hard look is taken at the practical disadvantages of making a change you'll see the issue die off, or at best some type of half-ass appeasement. Just like don't ask, don't tell, you'll see civil-unions allowed, but not marriage.

 

As for the poll, just like any other presidential election in the last 30 years it comes down to who you dislike the least. I, for one, don't care to see a flaming liberal from New England in the oval office. I've already seen enough examples of New England libs and the absolute crap they produce (See any Kennedy, Dukakis, etc...)

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Wow, "strong leader", my god, do bush supporters have ANY idea why they like him? Sheep.

 

All of a sudden every gay spouse has to be offered all the benefits (pension, helath care, etc) that they are now ineligible for.

 

You know, the government can save A LOT OF MONEY by not giving blacks any benefits. What the hell, blacks aren't as human as whites, plus they don't NEED the same benefits to give us money. It's God's way. Dingbat.

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Any military action that can be avoided, is best done so

 

Yeah, just go ask Chamberlain, or Woodrow Wilson. Isolationism and reactionism is the best way to go. Remember, if you ignore a problem, it'll go away!!!

 

Plus, us shoving democracy down the people's throats is bad news.

Yeah, it turned out really bad in Japan, Germany and South Korea, to name a few.

 

Faith doesn't matter in the eyes of a state and it's taxing (married couples get breaks gay couples can't because of the marriage statement).

 

God and faith issues aside, it is much more advantageous for the Federal Gov't to keep same-sex marriage illegal. The biggest effect gay marriage has is the huge outlay of cash it will cost the Gov't. All of a sudden every gay spouse has to be offered all the benefits (pension, helath care, etc) that they are now ineligible for.

 

Even if Kerry gets in office, you'll see him vhange his tune on gay marriage the minute someone spells out the financials for him. Much like the whole gays in the military thing, once a hard look is taken at the practical disadvantages of making a change you'll see the issue die off, or at best some type of half-ass appeasement. Just like don't ask, don't tell, you'll see civil-unions allowed, but not marriage.

 

As for the poll, just like any other presidential election in the last 30 years it comes down to who you dislike the least. I, for one, don't care to see a flaming liberal from New England in the oval office. I've already seen enough examples of New England libs and the absolute crap they produce (See any Kennedy, Dukakis, etc...) I never offered "isolationism" as the solution, thanks for putting those words in my mouth. I guess, according to YOUR philosophy we should go around and just change everyone over to democracy and generally stick our nose where it isn't wanted? Why is it America's job to police the world anyways? We've got enough problems here as it is...

 

And as for the gay marriage topic, it needs to be changed because it's the right thing to do. I don't give a s*** if the gov't gets "shortchanged" amd it's more advantageous to keep it illegal. It's prejudice and bigotry on a base level and needs to be fixed immediately. I'm not sure Kerry's the guy to fix it either, yet again the two party system fails me (and thousands, perhaps millions, of others).

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The Arab world would of eventually switched to a democratic system. The way we are currently forcing our economic system down the throats of Arabs is causing massive confusion, loss of identity, and hate among the Arabs towards the West. There is always an alternative to war. The only people who say otherwise are people like FF and tonyii who never have to see their house demolished or their children killed in the name of progress. Place yourselves in the shoes of an everyday Arab and maybe you will think differently.

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The only people who say otherwise are people like FF and tonyii who never have to see their house demolished or their children killed in the name of progress. Place yourselves in the shoes of an everyday Arab and maybe you will think differently.

 

Now that my friend, is what I call hitting the nail on the head.

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You know what as bad as Saddam was, he had WMD's we gave him to blow up Iran. And Saddam was secular which was different from the rest of the Middle East except for Israel where there is a combo of both.

 

 

 

The US tried isolationism in both world wars, and guess what, it didn't work. Stopping communism was the right thing to do in Vietnam and Korea, staying in Vietnam for 14 years was not.

 

 

BTW: Bush was the first president in a long time to go in as the aggressor in a war.

 

 

Somalia they didn't want us but it was needed, Bosnia, Kosovo, and others were needed. But the problem with going into the Middle East is that everyone is Muslim except in Israel, Lebanon, and before the Ayatollah, Iran. Muslims in the Middle East aren't going to be your normal Muslims you may know in America, but religious hotheads who hold strictly to their beliefs. Which means: They don't want American Customs and Ways forced onto them.

 

 

And how soon Europe forgets we saved their asses in World War 2. France, Germany, Austria are some countries who were against the Iraq War. France owes the US a lot in return for saving their ass in World War 2. Germany could've at least sent supplies (considering they don't have a standing army). Austria, is well, Austria and did not help like France.

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its againts gods way.

and if you dont mind me asking, are you a christian?

Uh, there's no proof there IS a god. That's based on faith. Faith doesn't matter in the eyes of a state and it's taxing (married couples get breaks gay couples can't because of the marriage statement).

 

Also, people are born gay. Further proof God isn't against homos. And I'm speaking of the TRUE God (if there is one) not some Christian interpretation of one.

 

Nope, sorry, I'm agnostic. There's also no proof there ISN'T God. If I was you, I'd sure hope there wasn't. :cool

 

And if people are born gay... tell me, just how does the homosexual gene pass down to the children of the.... oh wait! That's right! Gay's don't HAVE children!!! :mischief2

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Also being an agnostic I can tell you Ken that you better hope there IS a god or else you just wasted your one and only life being a bigoted prude. :)

I really mean those names towards most religious people, you seem to be somewhat reasonable. Please don't take offense the opportunity was just so sweet!

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Also being an agnostic I can tell you Ken that you better hope there IS a god or else you just wasted your one and only life being a bigoted prude. :)

I really mean those names towards most religious people, you seem to be somewhat reasonable. Please don't take offense the opportunity was just so sweet!

:cool No offense taken.

 

If whether or not there is a God is a game of chance, JMHO, I'll take my chances on believing it.

 

I don't feel like it would be a waste of my life to attempt to follow Jesus' teachings. Of course, I'll never get there, but I am sure that it would make me a better person in the long run.

 

Hopefully, not a bigot. :shifty

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its againts gods way.

and if you dont mind me asking, are you a christian?

Uh, there's no proof there IS a god. That's based on faith. Faith doesn't matter in the eyes of a state and it's taxing (married couples get breaks gay couples can't because of the marriage statement).

 

Also, people are born gay. Further proof God isn't against homos. And I'm speaking of the TRUE God (if there is one) not some Christian interpretation of one.

 

Nope, sorry, I'm agnostic. There's also no proof there ISN'T God. If I was you, I'd sure hope there wasn't. :cool

 

And if people are born gay... tell me, just how does the homosexual gene pass down to the children of the.... oh wait! That's right! Gay's don't HAVE children!!! :mischief2 There is no such thing as a "homosexual" gene. Get over it. People are born like that because they have sexual identity problems. Some people are because they choose too but many are born men who feel like girls. Ever heard of a transvestite? Many homosexuals are just that. Don't hate them because they have sexual identity problems, hate the policy that is racist toward them.

 

 

 

No I do not believe in homosexuality but I believe that if a person wants to be married to a person who is of the same sex, let them do it. There is no harm other then it being a legal marriage of the same sex.

 

 

No I am not Catholic or Christian for that matter nor Athiest.

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Gays don't have kids and yet more gay kids are born every day.

 

So what?

 

If there IS a God, then it's certainly not the Christian God anyways. Philosophy has proved that time and time again. Plus, there's big time differences between the God that punishes EVERYONE early on in the bible and the God who opens his heart and forgives everyone (kind of hypocritical if you ask me) later on in the bible.

 

Quit arguing for something you can't disprove/prove and don't push your crappy beliefs on me. They're called beliefs for a reason. Not because they're true, but because you believe them to be so.

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The thing about gay marriage as Ive posted before is that we should give homosexuals all the rights associated with marriage but not call it a marriage right away. This falls under Edmund Burke's doctrine of prescriptive rights. In a society where marriage has been between heterosexuals since colonial times we need to ease into the idea of homosexual marriage. Many anti-gay marriage advocates are not 'bigots' or even 'homophobes' they just see it as somehting too outrageous. however, let homosexuals have equal rights and eventually ease into calling it marriage. Seperate but equal took years to be discarded, which is not a good thing but its the way human beings work, things take time you cannot impose radical changes on anyone. Anti Iraq war advocates should agree herein terms of the US trying to impose democracy in the region

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