WASHINGTON ? President Bush is renewing his push in favor of faith-based initiatives (search) promoting the goal of letting religious groups compete for government money to help the needy.

 

 

 

Launched in the earliest days of his administration and stalled in Congress, the president's plans for religious-based organizations (search) are the focus of a national White House conference of community leaders Tuesday.

 

Opponents of the effort worry that government would wind up paying for religion. They also object to allowing taxpayer-funded groups to hire and fire based on religious persuasion.

 

Thwarted by Congress, the president has sidestepped lawmakers with executive orders and regulations to give religious organizations equal footing in competing for federal contracts. He is still fighting for legislation that would give religious groups access to federal funds as long as their services are available to anyone.

 

The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support and face fewer bureaucratic barriers, the White House says.

 

The White House is targeting for help organizations that serve at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and the hungry, substance abusers, welfare-to-work families, and those with HIV or AIDS.

 

At a regional conference on the subject in March, Bush said the efforts of religious and community organizations "will change our nation for the better."

 

The Bush administration is offering participants in the national conference networking opportunities with Cabinet agency officials and is urging those who attend to stay in town an extra day and spread the word to lawmakers "about the good work you are doing in your community," the White House says on its Internet site.

 

The White House calls the president's faith-based initiative "a fresh start and bold new approach to government's role in helping those in need."

 

Two weeks ago, the president took that message to Wisconsin, a state he lost by less than 6,000 votes four years ago and where he is running a tight race against Democratic rival John Kerry (search).

there is a reason that religion was supposed to be apart from government.

 

 

 

here is a query though.

 

 

 

say you have a christian group looking for funds and then an islamic group comes in wanting the same funds doing the exact same type of services for the needy.

 

 

 

who do you think would get the funding?

just in time for the summer election push!

 

he'll probably just happen to mention at some point that Kerry can't even receive communion from some Catholic churches because of his pro-choice stance...

Obviously I'm pro-Bush, and even I can't stand this crap.

 

Put away the bible and get out the constitution GW. Pound the campaign trail, not the bible.

that islamic christian question that das texan asked. Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt. Im saying this because when you posed that question sarcastically you were stating that the christians would obviously get the money. Christians do not have preferntial treatment in this country in fact the ALCU which always does a great job of protecting everybody's rights always fights for removal of crosses and the such from 'public' places

that islamic christian question that das texan asked. Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt. Im saying this because when you posed that question sarcastically you were stating that the christians would obviously get the money. Christians do not have preferntial treatment in this country in fact the ALCU which always does a great job of protecting everybody's rights always fights for removal of crosses and the such from 'public' places

the anti-christian liberals in gov't?

 

which ones are those? :blink:

Why have government run charities when faith based charities are out there that can do better work for less money? If a secular charity can get funds, a faith-based charity that does not discriminate who they serve should get funds as well.

that islamic christian question that das texan asked. Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt. Im saying this because when you posed that question sarcastically you were stating that the christians would obviously get the money. Christians do not have preferntial treatment in this country in fact the ALCU which always does a great job of protecting everybody's rights always fights for removal of crosses and the such from 'public' places

the anti-christian liberals in gov't?

 

which ones are those? :blink: Pelosi and Daschle were excommunicated.

that islamic christian question that das texan asked. Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt. Im saying this because when you posed that question sarcastically you were stating that the christians would obviously get the money. Christians do not have preferntial treatment in this country in fact the ALCU which always does a great job of protecting everybody's rights always fights for removal of crosses and the such from 'public' places

please.

 

 

that is horseshit and you know it.

 

 

 

people want crosses removed not becuase they are anti-Christian...but because they want religion seperated from government.

 

 

 

not b/c they want anti-christian movements to take over.

that islamic christian question that das texan asked. Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt. Im saying this because when you posed that question sarcastically you were stating that the christians would obviously get the money. Christians do not have preferntial treatment in this country in fact the ALCU which always does a great job of protecting everybody's rights always fights for removal of crosses and the such from 'public' places

Actually your wrong. These groups are being denied money in the faith-based intiatives.

that islamic christian question that das texan asked. Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt. Im saying this because when you posed that question sarcastically you were stating that the christians would obviously get the money. Christians do not have preferntial treatment in this country in fact the ALCU which always does a great job of protecting everybody's rights always fights for removal of crosses and the such from 'public' places

Actually your wrong. These groups are being denied money in the faith-based intiatives. because many have been tied to terrorist groups. several basque seperatist related groups were also denied and they are catholic/christian.

Why have government run charities when faith based charities are out there that can do better work for less money? If a secular charity can get funds, a faith-based charity that does not discriminate who they serve should get funds as well.

How can you regulate that though? Secular charities don't give based on any criteria (like accepting jesus, reading a bible, etc), but these faith-based charities do.

Actually im not wrong b/c i was referring to anti-christian bias not to money given by faith based charities. I just used this post to vent

Why have government run charities when faith based charities are out there that can do better work for less money? If a secular charity can get funds, a faith-based charity that does not discriminate who they serve should get funds as well.

How can you regulate that though? Secular charities don't give based on any criteria (like accepting jesus, reading a bible, etc), but these faith-based charities do. easy, if a person is in need and not of that belief, they will get the help if available.

 

for example.

 

An athiest needs help, he walks into a catholic church, they will give him help from the catholic charities. They may ask him to read the bible or consider becoming a christian, but they will not refuse him help.

Actually im not wrong b/c i was referring to anti-christian bias not to money given by faith based charities. I just used this post to vent

You said because of the anti-christian bias and the dirty liberals that Islamic organizations would get the money and not the Christian group.

 

Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt.

 

So your wrong....the Christian group gets the money an overwhelming amount of the time. How can you tell if these people are anti-christian or just wanting to remove all sybmols of religion from government areas?

Actually im not wrong b/c i was referring to anti-christian bias not to money given by faith based charities. I just used this post to vent

You said because of the anti-christian bias and the dirty liberals that Islamic organizations would get the money and not the Christian group.

 

Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt.

 

So your wrong....the Christian group gets the money an overwhelming amount of the time. How can you tell if these people are anti-christian or just wanting to remove all sybmols of religion from government areas? you have to agree that there are more christian charities in the US than islamic charities.

Why have government run charities when faith based charities are out there that can do better work for less money? If a secular charity can get funds, a faith-based charity that does not discriminate who they serve should get funds as well.

How can you regulate that though? Secular charities don't give based on any criteria (like accepting jesus, reading a bible, etc), but these faith-based charities do. easy, if a person is in need and not of that belief, they will get the help if available.

 

for example.

 

An athiest needs help, he walks into a catholic church, they will give him help from the catholic charities. They may ask him to read the bible or consider becoming a christian, but they will not refuse him help. How does that make any sense? The government is then supporting the religion of Catholicism because my tax dollars are paying for that persons chance to convert the poor person.

Actually im not wrong b/c i was referring to anti-christian bias not to money given by faith based charities. I just used this post to vent

You said because of the anti-christian bias and the dirty liberals that Islamic organizations would get the money and not the Christian group.

 

Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt.

 

So your wrong....the Christian group gets the money an overwhelming amount of the time. How can you tell if these people are anti-christian or just wanting to remove all sybmols of religion from government areas? you have to agree that there are more christian charities in the US than islamic charities. Definitely. But if you look at the percentage of rejections its a big disparity. This isnt really debatable.

Why have government run charities when faith based charities are out there that can do better work for less money? If a secular charity can get funds, a faith-based charity that does not discriminate who they serve should get funds as well.

How can you regulate that though? Secular charities don't give based on any criteria (like accepting jesus, reading a bible, etc), but these faith-based charities do. easy, if a person is in need and not of that belief, they will get the help if available.

 

for example.

 

An athiest needs help, he walks into a catholic church, they will give him help from the catholic charities. They may ask him to read the bible or consider becoming a christian, but they will not refuse him help. How does that make any sense? The government is then supporting the religion of Catholicism because my tax dollars are paying for that persons chance to convert the poor person. Yes, but by giving to a secular charity that may have athiest ties, they would be supporting no religion with my tax dollars.

 

The seperation of church and state works both ways. The gov't cannot have an official religion, but it can't ban religion.

Actually im not wrong b/c i was referring to anti-christian bias not to money given by faith based charities. I just used this post to vent

You said because of the anti-christian bias and the dirty liberals that Islamic organizations would get the money and not the Christian group.

 

Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt.

 

So your wrong....the Christian group gets the money an overwhelming amount of the time. How can you tell if these people are anti-christian or just wanting to remove all sybmols of religion from government areas? you have to agree that there are more christian charities in the US than islamic charities. Definitely. But if you look at the percentage of rejections its a big disparity. This isnt really debatable. yes, but the islamic charities have a greater chance of being affiliated with terrorism than a christian charity.

Actually im not wrong b/c i was referring to anti-christian bias not to money given by faith based charities. I just used this post to vent

You said because of the anti-christian bias and the dirty liberals that Islamic organizations would get the money and not the Christian group.

 

Obviously the islamic group would get the money b/c of the anti-christian liberals in govt.

 

So your wrong....the Christian group gets the money an overwhelming amount of the time. How can you tell if these people are anti-christian or just wanting to remove all sybmols of religion from government areas? you have to agree that there are more christian charities in the US than islamic charities. Definitely. But if you look at the percentage of rejections its a big disparity. This isnt really debatable. yes, but the islamic charities have a greater chance of being affiliated with terrorism than a christian charity. because all terrorists are islam?

All of the arguements present in this thread are exactly the reason why the Government shouldn't get involved in "Faith-based initiatives," which is just a euphamism for giving money to religion.

This is what you get when the government gets too big.

This is what you get when the government gets too big.

more money than they know what to do with.

yes, but the islamic charities have a greater chance of being affiliated with terrorism than a christian charity.

Says who? During Bush 1 and Clinton, Pro Life Terrorists are a much bigger problem in this country than Islamic in fact after 9/11 some were saying that Planned Parenthood should be contacted with all the problems they had with Pro Life nuts and how they dealt with it.